http://t4america.org/resources/dangerousbydesign/ (http://t4america.org/resources/dangerousbydesign/)
Transportation for America has released its 2011 "Dangerous by Design" report.
The Pedestrian Danger Index (PDI) measures the pedestrian fatality rate for a Metropolitan Area against the percentage of Metropolitan Area residents who walk to work.
The Metropolitan Areas with the highest PDI scores are listed below.
Rank Metropolitan Area 2007-08 Pedestrian
Danger Index
1 Orlando-Kissimmee, FL 221.5
2 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 205.5
3 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL 181.2
4 Jacksonville, FL 157.4
5 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 137.7
6 Raleigh-Cary, NC 128.6
7 Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN 114.8
8 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX 112.4
8 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 110.0
10 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA 108.3
All four of the Top 10 are in Florida.
the same 4 Florida cities have topped this list for years...and the interesting thing is the state's sidewalk requirements are far more stringent than most other states....proving that the majority of the problem lies in the design of the built environment (urban form)
This link below is to a map that shows where pedestrians are being killed.
http://t4america.org/resources/dangerousbydesign2011/map/ (http://t4america.org/resources/dangerousbydesign2011/map/)
In the box above the map, enter "Jacksonville Florida," then zoom in and scroll around.
The map shows that urban core neighborhoods are much safer than Beach Blvd., Arlington Expy, Blanding Blvd, etc.
Time for Complete Streets!
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 25, 2011, 03:09:13 PM
... the state's sidewalk requirements are far more stringent than most other states
Obviously, stringent sidewalk requirements don't work. Six- and eight-lane arterials are inherently dangerous.
Way to go Butler Blvd!
It's funny that just about all 10 on the list are here in the south. It just goes to prove that the south's mentality towards those without cars echos the south's resentment for those that they believe to be inferior to them. (I equate them to being racists, classists, anti culture, anti poor, anti disabled etc) These evil idiots would still have slaves if the law still allowed them to. I hope you all here know the group of southerners I'm attacking, it's not everybody in the south, it's mostly the powers that be and those who support their archaic policies.
Redneck law says that walking is obsolete. I just wonder when they'll have their legs amputated and replaced with a pull start engine with two giant mud tires, think of it as a redneck segway.
Quote from: hightowerlover on May 25, 2011, 03:20:39 PM
Way to go Butler Blvd!
Butler Blvd was originally planned to be an expressway, i.e. just like the Arlington Expressway.
Thankfully, those plans were changed.
Another pedestrian death/vehicular homicide in Jacksonville, this time near the "pedestrian/bicycle friendly" Riverside/Brooklyn area. Was apparently dragged a block by a second vehicle after being struck by an SUV.
Horrible.
>:(
http://jacksonville.com/breaking-news/2014-08-28/story/pedestrian-who-died-thursday-morning-riverside-ave-was-dragged-block?utm_source=cx (http://jacksonville.com/breaking-news/2014-08-28/story/pedestrian-who-died-thursday-morning-riverside-ave-was-dragged-block?utm_source=cx)
If you step in front of a moving vehicle that has the right of way you very well might be hit.
Jacksonville is the Capital of "Dumbasses Walking in Front of Cars", too. I cannot tell you how many times I have experienced a pedestrian walk right out in front of a car that had the right of way. Many of them are hoping for a lawsuit.
Yesterday in the Publix parking lot, my wife was backing out of her parking place. A pedestrian who was out in the traffic lane signaled to my wife to back out, that no cars were coming. My wife put the car in reverse and began to back up. At this precise instant the pedestrian stepped in front of my wife's car (in front of the rear bumper). Thankfully the car has a back-up camera. She did not hit the pedestrian, although she is 100% convinced this was what the person was hoping for.
^^^I totally agree with the people walking in front of cars. I've been in so many near accidents with pedestrians in the wrong, I lost count. It's easy to sit here and fault the drivers in every situation, like many on here do.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on August 28, 2014, 11:47:38 AM
Another vehicular homicide in Jacksonville, this time near the "pedestrian/bicycle friendly" Riverside/Brooklyn area.
The driver is not likely to face any charges, so I wouldn't call it 'vehicular homicide'.
"Reason" #1 Jacksonville is one of the tops in the nation for pedestrian fatalities:
Quote from: MusicMan on August 28, 2014, 12:00:57 PM
If you step in front of a moving vehicle that has the right of way you very well might be hit.
Jacksonville is the Capital of "Dumbasses Walking in Front of Cars", too. I cannot tell you how many times I have experienced a pedestrian walk right out in front of a car that had the right of way. Many of them are hoping for a lawsuit.
And reason #2:
Quote from: I-10east on August 28, 2014, 12:12:16 PM
The driver is not likely to face any charges, so I wouldn't call it 'vehicular homicide'.
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2014, 12:13:54 PM
unless something has changed, by law on municipal streets, pedestrians have the right of way.
Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway.
Surely a pedestrian can not walk out in front of traffic moving in accordance with traffic lights and expect them to stop. If this were true we would never be able to drive anywhere, folks would just walk across and ignore the lights. (Oh yeah, they already do that.)
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.130.html
The interpretation of the regulation I posted is that if pedestrians are to yield right-of-way to vehicles when not in a crosswalk, they therefore have the right-of-way in a crosswalk.
At the end of the day though, right-of-way isn't going to stop a moving vehicle. Just look at serial vehicular murderer Michael Fortunato.
Better to be wrong than dead right.
Roadway design requirements need to change. Motorized and non-motorized modes of travel should have a higher level of buffering between them on roadways designed for higher speeds. Bike/Ped safety has been an afterthought in the roadway design process for too long.
Another thing I learned at the Cliven Bundy School of Law:
A homicide is one person killing another. If not intentional, or if for good legal cause such as self defense, it is not nesseccarily a criminal act.
QuoteThe man, whose identity was not immediately available, was hit about 4:50 a.m. by a southbound SUV that was turning left into the Yates Family YMCA at Jackson Street.
Based on what is written here, it sounds like this person actually was in the pedestrian crosswalk and the driver didn't yield. Although they could have had a green arrow.
Quote from: stephendare on August 28, 2014, 12:32:33 PM
This may be part of the problem, looking over the statute there is literally no longer any right of way for non vehicular traffic.
When I was learning to drive, I was always told that no matter what, the pedestrian ALWAYS has the right of way no matter what signs or signals there were, mainly because, hey, don't run over people right?
But this actually makes perfect sense now--legalized "open season" on the Morlock underclass who "choose" to walk or bike on the street instead of doing the logical thing and driving the standard FL issue two-ton SUV like every other right-thinking Eloi.
Too bad boys and girls--WE don't have to even try to avoid hitting you, because YOU don't have the legal right of way!
BTW, sorry for killing you! (yelled out the window as we zoom over and past you)
Judeo-Christian law in action or just Social Darwinism? You decide!
:o
Looks like Orlando is learning and beginning to take steps in the right direction.
Quote from: Orlando SentinelIf you were to walk the streets of downtown Orlando a decade from now, or in 25 years, what would you see?
If all goes as planned, you'd see a greener city, with more shopping and community gathering spaces — and a lot more people walking. The City Council has adopted a new long-term vision for downtown that resulted from months of planning by nearly 100 volunteers, including urban planners, business leaders and other professionals.
The group's 262-page redevelopment plan includes hundreds of recommendations, including new parks and a revamped entrance to Lake Eola. A common theme is that the downtown Orlando of the future will be a walker's destination, with now-major roadways spruced up or pared back to make room for window shopping, dining and relaxing. But enacting the plan would come with a major price tag: an estimated $445 million over the next 27 years.
Roadway revamp?
Big changes planned for downtown Orlando
The city is talking about changes to Robinson Street and underneath Interstate 4.
Metro Orlando is frequently cited in national studies as the most dangerous place in the U.S. for pedestrians.
But much of what city leaders endorsed focuses on making the City Beautiful a walker's and bike rider's mecca, including some long-discussed changes to its major roadways:
• One-way roads, including Orange and Rosalind avenues, could be reworked into two-way roads, in an effort to slow traffic and make crossing on foot easier.
• Robinson Street could be pared back, from four lanes to two, to accommodate bike lanes, larger sidewalks and more landscaping. And the addition of new, more-visible crosswalks could bring better access to Lake Eola Park.
The proposals also include reworking Magnolia Avenue south of Colonial Drive into a street lined by restaurants with outdoor dining and shops. A rendering shows Magnolia with no travel lanes at all, save a single bus lane. The task force received advice from more than 6,000 members of the public, according to its chair, Fred Kittinger. He said feedback made clear that improving downtown's walk-ability and expanding its parks was key.
"Those things, on the human scale, those are what you enjoy with your friends and your family, and that adds toward the quality of life," Kittinger said.
Call for a 'Bridge District'
Another challenge addressed by the task force was how to connect central Orlando's neighborhoods — from Parramore to College Park to Thornton Park — into an easily navigable, less-segmented downtown.
The plan includes putting little-used spaces to work. One "big idea" put forward was developing a network of green spaces — including small parks and other landscaping — from Garland Avenue east to the SunRail tracks, and from Lake Ivanhoe south to State Road 408.
One rendering shows how a vacant lot at Orange Avenue and Pine Street, currently frequented on the weekends by street preachers and plastic-bucket drummers, would be converted to a small, well-shaded park. Another of the major proposals is to develop the underside of Interstate 4 into a "Bridge District," a well-lit recreation and event space linking the Amway Center to the rest of downtown. "This corridor should focus on becoming a hub for sports and entertainment activities, and providing support to the anchors of the corridor — the Venues," the plan states.
Among the districts targeted for development is the North Quarter, a stretch between Lake Ivanhoe and Colonial Drive. There's been an uptick in construction there lately, and the task force identified it as a potential "gateway" to downtown. "I am extremely bullish and excited about the North Quarter," Kittinger said.
'No silver bullet'
While some of the recommended changes to downtown would be obvious, others would occur behind the scenes. Whit Blanton of the Orlando-based Renaissance Planning Group, told commissioners the city needs to focus on "creating a welcoming business environment" to lure businesses. Proposals for doing that range from improving educational programs, relaxing permitting restrictions and reducing fees, to expanding public transit, including SunRail and Lymmo. "There really is no silver bullet, there really is no one thing we need to do to ensure downtown Orlando's long term success," Blanton said.
The goals laid out in the redevelopment plan were broken down by how quickly they could be carried out:
• Short-term goals include creating a bike-and-pedestrian advisory board; improving parking though technology, better signage and more garages; expanding the Orlando Urban Trail; starting a plaque program to identify historic buildings; and expanding job-creation incentives.
• Among the mid-term goals were exploring the feasibility of turning one-way streets into two-ways; revamping Robinson Street; creating an "Urban Market" for local goods; and adding a "world-class, large scale signature event or festival."
• Long-term goals include extending SunRail; redesigning Lake Eola Park; developing a new museum; and encouraging the creation of a downtown high school "specializing in visual and performing arts."
City commissioners voted Monday to approve the redevelopment plan. And while that's a big step forward, there are still a lot of unknowns, including money and continued commitment along the way. "At the end of the day, it'll be the mayor and the City Council that will determine the priorities," Kittinger said. But Cari Coats, who chaired a 26-member executive advisory committee that reviewed the 71-member task force's work, noted during a workshop Monday that 87 percent the last redevelopment plan, from 2000, has come to fruition.
The new groundwork may have already begun. For example, Kittinger noted the I-4 Ultimate project is expected to leave the interstate's overpass higher off the ground than it is now and with better lighting, setting the stage for the "Bridge District" plan. The city's estimated the total cost of the plan at $445 million, through the year 2042.
Revenue was projected to outpace that figure, coming in at about $534 million combined from taxes, bonds, internal loans and tax incentives. Commissioner Patty Sheehan praised a proposal to encourage urban farming and renderings for a revamped entrance to Lake Eola Park, flanked by white, swan-shaped gates. And Commissioner Robert Stuart called the plan a "wonderful team effort" that would "give us the framework that we can move down and really impact what we want to see in this community in 10, 15, 20 years."
I think all of our major Florida cities, including Jax, have taken these results to heart. It will be interesting to see what type of transformations are made to our streets over the next couple of years.
1. "......against the percentage of Metropolitan Area residents who walk to work."
The original post mentioned that they were comparing deaths to population and people who actually walked to work. How do they know that? Did anyone ask you if you walked to work?
2. Were they on the way to work or did we look at all deaths?
3. how many were wearing dark clothing at night and walking with traffic in the road way?
QuoteI think all of our major Florida cities, including Jax, have taken these results to heart. It will be interesting to see what type of transformations are made to our streets over the next couple of years.
Doing NOTHING is also an option, one that I believe Jax will take. But we will add more Red Light Cameras....
^Here's an example of some local progress in the works!
(http://www.jtamobilityworks.com/PublishingImages/MW_Projects_2colors_noNumbers_Small3.jpg)
QuoteJTAMobilityWorks is a program designed to complete projects funded by the extension of the Local Option Gas Tax. Leveraging that future funding, JTA has issued bonds to cover the cost of the projects. With the $100 million dollars generated through the bond issue, JTA will complete 13 roadway projects and projects in 14 mobility corridors in all areas of Jacksonville over the next five years. The project list was generated by the Jacksonville City Council and will not be altered without their approval.
We are reviewing transit, pedestrian and bicycling movements within each mobili-ty corridor. Community involvement and feedback will help determine what projects will be most beneficial to the neighborhood now and in the future. This input will be gathered through a series of charrettes focused on each corridor. Projects may include items such as sidewalks, bike paths, transit accessibility improvements, lighting, bus shelters, landscaping and more.
http://www.jtamobilityworks.com/Pages/Main.aspx
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 12, 2015, 08:47:49 AM
Doing NOTHING is also an option, one that I believe Jax will take. But we will add more Red Light Cameras....
Blah blah blah...
If you driven long enough in Jax, you'll know that many pedestrians cause their own demises. I wanna know that magic ratio; The ratio between people that are victim's of 'the dangerous by design' theory, or people simply in the category of making unwise decisions, and I'm willing to bet that the overwhelming winner is the unwise decision category. The other NIGHT I was driving on the Northside and these two people who appear to me to be on drugs practically had a conversation in the middle of 21st Street; Yeah, that's a 'dangerous by design' issue there....
Lake,
That is a very nice map, with pretty colors. But many of those projects have not even started. And nothing is shown in downtown, where there are major issues with the roads and pedestrians. Does JTA not care about making downtown safer for Pedestrians????
Quote from: I-10east on May 12, 2015, 09:25:09 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 12, 2015, 08:47:49 AM
Doing NOTHING is also an option, one that I believe Jax will take. But we will add more Red Light Cameras....
Blah blah blah...
If you driven long enough in Jax, you'll know that many pedestrians cause their own demises. I wanna know that magic ratio; The ratio between people that are victim's of 'the dangerous by design' theory, or people simply in the category of making unwise decisions, and I'm willing to bet that the overwhelming winner is the unwise decision category. The other NIGHT I was driving on the Northside and these two people who appear to me to be on drugs practically had a conversation in the middle of 21st Street; Yeah, that's a 'dangerous by design' issue there....
While this may be true I don't think it tells the whole story. I review crash data for projects regularly and yes, there are crashes that involve peds and bicyclists in which it was not the drivers fault. Perhaps the pedestrian was jaywalking or was drunk- clearly not the drivers fault but still a death nonetheless. However, I'm more considered with our roadway facility designs that force the pedestrian to take a potentially unsafe route. Roadways without sidewalks or paved shoulders forcing the ped to walk in part of the lane. If that person is hit it could easily be dismissed as the pedestrian's fault when in fact they had no choice- there was no other place to walk.
I know that I've mentioned this many times but a great example is where my office is near the Avenues mall. The Mall has a major transit stop in the parking lot adjacent to the parking garage. The mall in itself is a major destination however, on the east side of Southside Blvd. there is a for-profit medical related college. Many of the students ride the bus and get off at the mall stop and make the trek across Southside to their school. They were scrubs so they are recognizable. I see it almost daily. The kicker is there are no pedestrian facilities to allow peds to safely cross Southside. You're forced to either jaywalk or cross at the light at Malabar at the entrance to the mall. No crosswalks , no ped signals. Just a large, high-speed four lane highway. These are the issues that need to be recitified.
That said- they are now putting in sidewalks along the east side of Southside. I have yet to determine if there will be any ped facilities that allow peds to safely cross Southside. That would be a crucial oversight. Nonetheless, it is a start.
I love the "bus stops" on Roosevelt on the side of the train tracks that aren't even paved and have little to no access to get to them.
Quote from: JFman00 on May 12, 2015, 09:49:43 AM
I love the "bus stops" on Roosevelt on the side of the train tracks that aren't even paved and have little to no access to get to them.
There's no way to get to them. They're buffered by a RR track and fence on one side and a 6-lane roadway on the other. Outside of the stop adjacent to Edgewood and Roosevelt the ridership is next to nil for those stops.
^^^I agree. A sidewalk there would be the least used sidewalk in the city. Hell, no one hardly uses the existing sidewalk as it is, except the occasional jogger.
Quote from: UNFurbanist on May 11, 2015, 10:32:01 PM
Looks like Orlando is learning and beginning to take steps in the right direction.
Quote from: Orlando Sentinel
• One-way roads, including Orange and Rosalind avenues, could be reworked into two-way roads, in an effort to slow traffic and make crossing on foot easier.
What a concept!
And here in Jax, I've heard there's a petition going around to return the current two-way College and Post Streets in Riverside BACK to one way streets in order to better accommodate vehicular traffic. One step forward, two steps back...
???
Whichever street(s) that's designed for parallel parking partiers (Post or College) I have zero problems with turning it into an one way street, unless they remove the parking, which I seriously doubt. It's ridiculous driving through that narrow corridor of parked cars. They might as well have full time flagmen there or something, with that crazy setup.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 12, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
Lake,
That is a very nice map, with pretty colors. But many of those projects have not even started. And nothing is shown in downtown, where there are major issues with the roads and pedestrians. Does JTA not care about making downtown safer for Pedestrians????
They just selected firms to begin the process of conceptual planning and design. It's a five year window or so, from start to finish. This is year one.
Also, downtown isn't the only part of the city that needs help. Most of the corridors identified are mid-20th century designed pedestrian and cycling death traps. To build a connected citywide network, they'll have to be addressed as well. Good move by JTA, IMO.
Here is the actual vision plan from the city of Orlando and man does it look pretty haha. It may honestly all be pie in the sky ideas but I feel like if Jacksonville could at least give everyone a beautiful cohesive vision for downtown it would go a long way to help rally the city behind development. I think too often it is just concepts of this project and that project but what about the "downtown project"? Give Jax citizens the big picture like this does in a format that feels a little newer than 2010 graphics and actually act on it. Just my thoughts.
http://projectdto.com/materials/ (http://projectdto.com/materials/)
Lake, you are right about other parts of town with serious issues for pedestrians and bicyclists. In some of the commercial and residential developments in south Jax, the idea with sidewalks is not to build them until after the house/office is built. The result is that office parks and homes have disconnected sidewalks leading nowhere.
Jax is the only place I've been in America where there are non-limited access roads with stoplights and sidewalks and traffic going 60+ mph. Recently I've been on Roosevelt in a vehicle going 65 (20 over the limit) and still being passed by people. In the Midwest in particular, any more than 10 over and you're begging for a ticket, but after being here for just 3 years I've gotten used to speed limit + 10 to 15 mph as being the flow of traffic. Poor design and worse enforcement are a recipe for pedestrian and cyclist deaths.
Quote from: I-10east on May 12, 2015, 10:30:40 AM
Whichever street(s) that's designed for parallel parking partiers (Post or College) I have zero problems with turning it into an one way street, unless they remove the parking, which I seriously doubt. It's ridiculous driving through that narrow corridor of parked cars. They might as well have full time flagmen there or something, with that crazy setup.
As a resident that frequently walks/bikes/drives around College and Post streets, I respectfully disagree and prefer these streets to remain 15 mph two way streets with parking on both sides.
It's really not that crazy driving through the gauntlet of parked cars IF you drive slow and occasionally yield to oncoming cars which may possibly slow down traffic, which is really the whole point in having cars parked on both sides of a residential street. If you want to be able to do 50 mph down them unhindered by any obstacles though, you're gonna eventually either A) lose a side mirror B) smash into a car pulling out from a spot or C) kill a biker/pedestrian/drunken reveler crossing the street. I-10, 95, and 295 are right down the road if you just hafta get yer Fast and Furious on.
^^I NEVER said anything about speeding. I never speed in residential areas. That navigational hazard that's there now is very dumb, and that's why that petition is in effect. It's designed like an one way one lane street, so let it be that, without any of the silliness. With all of those cars parked there many times, believe me, the last thing people wanna do is speed...
Quote from: I-10east on May 12, 2015, 06:55:50 PM
^^I NEVER said anything about speeding. I never speed in residential areas. That navigational hazard that's there now is very dumb, and that's why that petition is in effect. It's designed like an one way one lane street, so let it be that, without any of the silliness. With all of those cars parked there many times, believe me, the last thing people wanna do is speed...
It's no different now than it was a few months ago before the lines were painted. Sometimes you had to wait for ongoing traffic to pass. People still parked on both sides of the road. Now that lines are painted all hell's breaking loose.
^^It obviously wasn't like that when it was an one way street, which is what I'm getting at...
QuoteAlso, downtown isn't the only part of the city that needs help.
If downtown is to thrive, pedestrians need to feel safe, and its not safe now. Yeah the burbs are important, but isn't the point to fix downtown, so that it is friendly to those who fear the burbs are not safe to walk in? Whether its in year one or year 5, the delay on delays the move of residents....
Most of the mobility corridors aren't in the burbs. They're in older urban neighborhoods like Durkeeville, Springfield,New Town, Moncrief, Brentwood, Grand Park, Norwood, Panama Park, Tallulah, St. Nicholas, Riverside/Avondale and along proposed BRT transit corridors like Lem Turner, Philips, Arlington Expressway and Blanding....all notorious dangerous streets for JTA's riders, pedestrians and transit users. If we can't get these places right, we can forget about turning downtown around. Besides, the DIA is the big daddy for downtown (although JTA is rebuilding Jefferson and Broad for BRT right now).
I've knocked JTA for a doing a lot of things wrong since we started this website, but this mobility works initiative isn't one of them. It's a good response to a real transportation problem we have in this town.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on May 12, 2015, 12:47:36 PM
As a resident that frequently walks/bikes/drives around College and Post streets, I respectfully disagree and prefer these streets to remain 15 mph two way streets with parking on both sides.
I respectfully disagree to your disagreement. lol.
I bike that stretch upwards of 10-15 times each week and would love to see it go back to 1-way streets. And as much as it pains me to type this out, JSO seriously needs to be out there more often VISIBLY writing tickets. Too many people are still cruising through there, obliviously content, upwards of 30mph. If you're concerned about the average speed increasing after making it 1-way and really want to curb the thoroughfare traffic, make all of the intersections 4-way stops and remove the light from King street. I don't think the residents would mind and it would keep the a good bit off traffic out of the neighborhood.
Most importantly, add the damn bike lanes! With the new FWB Ped component already planned, we could feasibly connect Murray Hill to San Marco with designated bike path. It also might take me off of St. John's/Riverside during morning traffic when I'm running my dogs.
I think that the whole 'downtown is dangerous for pedestrians' talk is a cliched exaggeration. I'm not saying that there are some spots here and there that could use improvement, but to act like like downtown isn't overwhelmingly an urban grid realm full of crosswalks and don't walk signs is being in denial. Show me all of these pedestrian deaths in DT, since it's so unsafe? Have to go to the archives?? Yeah, I thought so...In a landslide, Jax's suburban areas are the real safety issue concerning pedestrians.
Quote from: I-10east on May 13, 2015, 09:50:59 PM
I think that the whole 'downtown is dangerous for pedestrians' talk is a cliched exaggeration. I'm not saying that there are some spots here and there that could use improvement, but to act like like downtown isn't overwhelmingly an urban grid realm full of crosswalks and don't walk signs is being in denial. Show me all of these pedestrian deaths in DT, since it's so unsafe? Have to go to the archives?? Yeah, I thought so...In a landslide, Jax's suburban areas are the real safety issue concerning pedestrians.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/jso-pedestrian-critically-injured-in-main-st-crash/30991692
The driver had a green light, but it still highlights the issue of certain 1-way streets downtown being high-speed expressways. I've personally noticed burnt out pedestrian crossing signals on Main St. stay out for months until I've notified the city and they getting repaired. There was also the pedestrian killed by the JTA bus a few years back. Both of these incidents having happened on the 1-way streets people are saying are too dangerous for a downtown setting.
The woman in the article linked above passed away a few days after the incident.
^^^When I walk downtown, I don't feel unsafe. I think that a good safety tip is to be wary of the traffic light patterns (looking up at the traffic lights), regardless if a don't walk sign is there or not; Ideally, of course you want to cross on a fresh red light, and cautiously cross as fast as you can.
One way streets are like Main St are in downtowns all over America, with some cities even worse far as width (national & international). I don't see anything 'unique' or 'challenging to cross' there. That accident in January was unfortunate, but even in the most ideal pedestrian environments something like that could happen, with a driver coming through on a green light.
Gloria used to walk the grandson to school. She stopped when she realized that they were getting a green light to walk Across Main at the same time the cars were getting a green light to turn left from Tallulah. And that the timing was such that even almost running, you could only get two thirds of the way across before Main got a green to go. And go the cars do. Almost get hit a couple of times and the walking stops.
In today's age of computer controlled everything, it seems like a fail to not program lights to actually do what they are supposed to do - control traffic safely - all traffic, not just the motorized one. So while it is nice to talk about redoing streets and making things safer by design; doesn't it make more sense to simply do the easy fixes first? You will never stop the j-walking, the stumbling or the texting drivers. But how can you criticize any of that if you can't even make those doing it right to start with safe?
The City (and State in some cases) lacks the ability to take care of the simple things. It's like the case of the 2 Jewish people hit while crossing San Juan. The fact that the pedestrian walk signal will cycle correctly, but only give you enough time to cross if you actually press the "push to cross" button first is criminal. Someone should have lost their job over that fiasco.
Another case being the need for parking stripes in RA and the people that were protesting Kickback's expansion. If people have blatant disregard for the current system and laws in place, why do we need more? If drivers are constantly blocking driveways, sidewalks, etc, that is a failure on the part of JSO to cite those that are breaking the laws in neighborhoods that everyone knows people are breaking the law in.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 13, 2015, 09:13:49 PM
Most importantly, add the damn bike lanes!
I'm not a huge fan of bike lanes which, unless they're the physically separated kind like the riverwalk, confine bikers to a narrow little strip of asphalt separated from speeding cars by only a thin wisp of paint like some Orwellian kind of vehicular "free speech zone". I think Riverside/Avondale is one of the few areas in all of Jax that really doesn't require bike lanes; it's mostly a grid layout of 2 way streets with low speed limits, perfect for vehicular bicycling. I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 13, 2015, 09:13:49 PM
And as much as it pains me to type this out, JSO seriously needs to be out there more often VISIBLY writing tickets. Too many people are still cruising through there, obliviously content, upwards of 30mph. If you're concerned about the average speed increasing after making it 1-way and really want to curb the thoroughfare traffic, make all of the intersections 4-way stops and remove the light from King street. I don't think the residents would mind and it would keep the a good bit off traffic out of the neighborhood.
Agreed! JSO could probably pay for several pensions if they simply ticketed the cars speeding down Post or College Streets on an average weekend.
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on May 14, 2015, 10:15:10 AM
I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.
The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/bike death rate.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 14, 2015, 10:29:40 AM
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on May 14, 2015, 10:15:10 AM
I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.
The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/death rate.
Like Lake is saying, though.
When it's just me, I don't really care. I also ride in traffic on Blanding / US17 / Main St / and every once and a while State & Union. Make yourself visible. But that's when I'm by myself.
When I'm with the kids, the dogs or the GF, I stay on the residential roads. I would really feel better if there was only a 3-4' stripe designating our area as ours if for no other reason, I've seen the kids take a tumble while riding their bikes. That could be disastrous if it happens in travel lanes. IMO bike lanes can empower the unexperienced and timid and gives them the courage to stay off of the sidewalk. The more people on the roads (on bikes) the more accustomed drivers get to sharing the road. Combine all of the above to raise the overall awareness and you have something really good happening.
I could list plenty of peeves that I see other bikers doing, but in most cases they're doing it because they feel safer. The needle needs to start moving towards the direction of everyone feeling safe while sharing the same roads.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 14, 2015, 10:56:34 AM
The more people on the roads (on bikes) the more accustomed drivers get to sharing the road. Combine all of the above to raise the overall awareness and you have something really good happening.
Great point. This is what happened in St. Pete over the last 10-15 years. Once they made a commitment to providing the proper connected network, overall awareness and driver behavior started to change for the better.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 14, 2015, 10:29:40 AM
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on May 14, 2015, 10:15:10 AM
I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.
The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/death rate.
I'm certainly not a professional cyclist by ANY stretch of the imagination, just a guy who would prefer to bike instead of drive if possible, and I always try to take routes that stick to less busy residential streets and avoid any squirrelly intersections or high speed/busy streets, but if one rides using the basic rules of the road (stopping behind the solid line at red lights, not blowing through yellows or stop signs, using hand signals for turning/stopping, yielding right of way when necessary, not riding too close to the parked car door zone, and ALWAYS assuming other vehicles don't see you), I think riding as a vehicular cyclist around a more bike/ped friendly place like Riverside/Avondale is actually a decent place to learn how to bike safely, though I certainly wouldn't choose to ride in the street on a high speed/high traffic road.
All that said, I usually ride with a helmet, a dorky reflective safety vest, and my front/rear lights on even during the day--I may be a fool riding on the streets of Jax, but I ain't no dummy!
My biggest gripe with plain jane bike lanes is they push the bike rider over to the side of the road where they're less visible to other vehicles and road conditions aren't always the best, while giving just the illusion of safety for the rider. In a perfect world, we would have a series of dedicated, separated bike paths (paved in gold) connecting the core neighborhoods, but in this era of tax aversion and fiscal austerity, wouldn't sharrows like the ones on Riverside Ave. perform a similar function as painted bike lanes without pushing the biker over to the side of the road where loose gravel and broken glass always seem to congregate? You're still riding in the street as in bike lanes but now you're more visible to cars making it incumbent on other vehicles to actually share the road with bikes instead of just being an afterthought.
I just don't see how painting stripes on the street is going to get more beginners to ride on the roads instead of sidewalks (which could end up being even more dangerous), unless the bike lane is the kind physically separated from traffic, like with parked cars on one side and the sidewalk on the other. It would be cool seeing bike lanes like this around town:
(http://www.transalt.org/sites/default/files/news/streetbeat/askta/images/031208/bikelane2.jpg)
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on May 14, 2015, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 14, 2015, 10:29:40 AM
Quote from: L.P. Hovercraft on May 14, 2015, 10:15:10 AM
I say damn the torpedoes and ride down the middle of the lane proudly, and if the car behind you thinks you're going too slow, they're probably going too fast anyway and can turn down a different street or go around you.
The problem here is if the goal is to have more than professional cyclist considering to bike more, you definitely don't want novices and kids in the middle of the street, saying damn the torpedoes. All that's going to do is up our ped/death rate.
I'm certainly not a professional cyclist by ANY stretch of the imagination, just a guy who would prefer to bike instead of drive if possible, and I always try to take routes that stick to less busy residential streets and avoid any squirrelly intersections or high speed/busy streets, but if one rides using the basic rules of the road (stopping behind the solid line at red lights, not blowing through yellows or stop signs, using hand signals for turning/stopping, yielding right of way when necessary, not riding too close to the parked car door zone, and ALWAYS assuming other vehicles don't see you), I think riding as a vehicular cyclist around a more bike/ped friendly place like Riverside/Avondale is actually a decent place to learn how to bike safely, though I certainly wouldn't choose to ride in the street on a high speed/high traffic road.
All that said, I usually ride with a helmet, a dorky reflective safety vest, and my front/rear lights on even during the day--I may be a fool riding on the streets of Jax, but I ain't no dummy!
My biggest gripe with plain jane bike lanes is they push the bike rider over to the side of the road where they're less visible to other vehicles and road conditions aren't always the best, while giving just the illusion of safety for the rider. In a perfect world, we would have a series of dedicated, separated bike paths (paved in gold) connecting the core neighborhoods, but in this era of tax aversion and fiscal austerity, wouldn't sharrows like the ones on Riverside Ave. perform a similar function as painted bike lanes without pushing the biker over to the side of the road where loose gravel and broken glass always seem to congregate? You're still riding in the street as in bike lanes but now you're more visible to cars making it incumbent on other vehicles to actually share the road with bikes instead of just being an afterthought.
I just don't see how painting stripes on the street is going to get more beginners to ride on the roads instead of sidewalks (which could end up being even more dangerous), unless the bike lane is the kind physically separated from traffic, like with parked cars on one side and the sidewalk on the other. It would be cool seeing bike lanes like this around town:
(http://www.transalt.org/sites/default/files/news/streetbeat/askta/images/031208/bikelane2.jpg)
I want to respond to this more in depth, but a few quick things: Hell no to gold paths. That would be hell when it rains. ;D
The picture you provided actually hides the bikers from vehicular traffic and does nothing to raise awareness. The awareness needs to be there to remind ALL drivers that the roads are to be shared. We don't have to (and shouldn't be) pushed to our own little section away from everything else. Cars will be turning into and across those hidden lanes just as they do sidewalks.... I want to be seen. Someone post a pics of the bike lanes on San Jose, those are fantastic, and proof that we're not being pushed to the edge of the gutters with all of the debris.
The rest of your points regarding safety equipment are spot on.
There's no way you could ever convince me to use the unprotected bike lines (where they spottily exist) on Roosevelt. No amount of awareness is going to get me on a bike sharing a lane with cars going 60+.