Saw it on a JTA bus stop today.
(http://s1.postimage.org/mc9wqbjnb/IMG_0125.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
hosting images (http://www.postimage.org/)
Now, if only they had
A) more of those fancy sheltered bus stops
B) logical routes
C) less than 50-minute headways on all of its routes
and
D) better management
that would be awesome, and worthwhile!
Find a way to do it.
June 16th... hmm... no school, kid will be out of town.
Yes, I believe I will take some buses to work. :)
JTA also has a neat calculator on their site...try it out!
http://www.jtafla.com/AboutJTA/DTP.aspx
Do they have a loop from baymeadows to town center? That would be SWEET and I would ride that.
(Just one example)
Funny?!? I do this everyday.
Quote from: Doctor_K on May 23, 2011, 08:38:57 PM
Now, if only they had
A) more of those fancy sheltered bus stops
B) logical routes
C) less than 50-minute headways on all of its routes
and
D) better management
that would be awesome, and worthwhile!
Indeed. I'd actually love to follow their advice, but that's just not going to happen for obvious reasons now is it.
So, ahem, JTA. Allow me to retort.
(http://i.imgur.com/8PLuY.jpg)
I took the bus today while dealing with some car issues and I wish they had wifi access on the buses. Those are long rides.
It would also be cool to have an app that shows where the buses are at any given point in time so I can know if I missed a bus/need to wait for next one/get creative with another route.
Though I do realize the services wouldn't be used much.
I never ever consider using JTA, outside of my dreams of a rail line that would run along 17 / Roosevelt from Clay county through Downtown or using the Skyway when I have already driven downtown.
When I go to Seattle, Vancouver, Oakland, SF, DC, even Las Vegas I wonder if anyone from JTA has ever been to one of these cities. So I am not transit averse...But I digress...
This thread got me thinking about what trip I could take on JTA that would be useful or interesting for me to participate in DtP. I thought I would try to take my 1yr old daughter to meet my wife for lunch. Here is what JTA can do for me.
So by 8:45am I get to load my daughter up in her stroller, walk the 1.1 miles with no sidewalk along a busy 6 lane highway to catch a 9:15am bus that will get me to Riverplace Tower by 10:50am after 2 transfers. After lunch I get to make the return trip departing at 12:56 or 1:20pm arriving 2:59pm no matter my departure time, followed by the 1.1 mile walk previously mentioned.
So 22 miles round trip @ 17 mpg (my vehicle city avg) = 1.30 Gal @ $4.00 gal = $5.20 Fuel Cost vs. $5.50 Transit Fare, plus an additional 3 hrs travel time.
Just another example why JTA = epic fail.
From the JTA trip planner.
Depart...Avent Drive in Jacksonville
Then...
Go to: S.E. Corner Of Roosevelt Blvd. & Yorktown Ave. (Approx. 3/4 to 1 mi.) REALLY = 1.1 Miles
Board: J.T.A. W.S.24 Line/Ortega-Nas Shuttle at 9:16 am (next bus 2:12 pm)
Fare: Pay $1.00
Get Off: F.S.C.J. Kent Campus at 9:37 am
Then...
Go to: N.E. Corner Of F.S.C.J. Kent Campus, 3939 Roosevelt Blvd
Board: J.T.A. R5 Line/Regency-F.C.C.J.-U.N at 10:15 am (next bus 11:15 am)
Fare: Pay $1.00
Get Off: Pearl St. & Bay St. at 10:35 am
Then...
Go to: Bay St & Pearl, Central Station
Board: J.T.A. Skyway Line/Kings Ave Station at 10:43 am (next at 10:48 am)
Fare: Pay $0.50
Get Off: Flagler Av & Riverplace at 10:50 am
Arrive... 1301 Gulf Life Drive in Jacksonville
Depart... 1301 Gulf Life Drive in Jacksonville
Then...
Go to: N.E. Corner Of San Marco Blvd. & Prudential Dr.
Board: J.T.A. S.S.8 Line/Spring Park-San Souc at 12:56 pm (next 2:01 pm)
Fare: Pay $1.00
Get Off: F.C.C.J. Station at 1:10 pm
Then...
Go to: N.W. Corner Of F.C.C.J. Station, Hogan St & Union St
Board: J.T.A. P4 Line/Roosevelt-103rd at 1:55 pm (next bus at 2:34 pm)
Fare: Pay $1.00
Get Off: San Juan Ave. & Fair St. at 2:26 pm
Then...
Go to: S.W. Corner Of San Juan Ave. & Fair St.
Board: J.T.A. W.S.24 Line/Ortega-Nas Shuttle at 2:44 pm (next bus 3:56 pm)
Fare: Pay $1.00
Get Off: Yorktown Ave. & Roosevelt Blvd. at 2:59 pm
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 23, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
Find a way to do it.
Oh I would, believe me. If
any of the routes went where I needed them to go, in a timely manner.
Quote from: danem on May 23, 2011, 09:19:19 PM
Do they have a loop from baymeadows to town center? That would be SWEET and I would ride that.
(Just one example)
NOPE. And you wanna know something stupid? I stay off baymeadows. If I wanted to take the bus to the Avenues, which is around the corner I would have to take TWO BUSES. I would have to take the B7 up the street to Baymeadows way, then hop on the L7 to go around the corner to the Avenues. That is the DUMBEST crap I have seen in my life. Stuff like this is why people dont like riding the bus here.
Well perhaps just one aspect of everyone's day transit could be used. Lunch or trip to post office.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 23, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
Find a way to do it.
Quote from: Doctor_K on May 24, 2011, 10:33:49 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 23, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
Find a way to do it.
Oh I would, believe me. If any of the routes went where I needed them to go, in a timely manner.
Same here.
Choosing to "dump the pump" would add no less than
three hours of extra travel to my work day. JTA can frame it as if the spoiled consumer is choosing to drive rather than take the bus all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that one day's commute to work via JTA bus takes longer than my entire week's commute in my own vehicle. I'd love the opportunity to take the bus to work, but not if it means sacrificing 33% of my non-working, non-sleeping day to do so. It'd be nice to be able to not worry about driving and to do a crossword or catch up on some work on the bus. But it's not so nice to start The Lord of the Rings while waiting on the bus in the morning and running out of movie by the time you get home at night.
Question for those wiser on transportation planning than I:
What's wrong with our bus system? Why are the headways so long, and the routes so wonky? Bad planning? Sprawl? Lack of buses and/or funding? Outdated routes? Is the bus system fixable given their current assets and infrastructure?
Thinking harder about it, I suppose it would be easier to drive to work BUT get a few gals in the office to walk & ride the skyway with me... we could cross over to Tidbits for lunch. 8)
anyone working Downtown really has no excuse to at least not try the Skyway. Who knows maybe it will be free that day!
Quote from: fsujax on May 24, 2011, 11:12:39 AM
anyone working Downtown really has no excuse to at least not try the Skyway. Who knows maybe it will be free that day!
Well I want to, but I only have a 45 minute lunch. I work a Pru so the skyway station is right across the street. LOL Im just afraid Im going to get stuck and be late getting back to work. I was going to take it the landing one day just because. I may do it today and take some pictures. lol
i ride it all the time at lunch. you should be ok.
I had a license issue for about two months and I rode the bus to work everyday. Took the B7 and got dropped pff right outside Prudential and picked me up across the street in the afternoon. That was only 10.00 a week compared to how much I was spending driving to work. And If I need to go to the store I caught a cab. I was saving SOOO much money. It takes 60.00 to fill my car up once. I was spending like 100.00 every two weeks on gas. I hated getting up so early and getting home so late, but I had plenty of change to throw around. I dont mind cacthing the bus at all now.
I figured it out for bus travel on my end, and, if I HAD TO ride I'd be okay with a bit of a hike involved every day. Nothing comes as close as 10 blocks.
I'd have to take the P4 - arrives 6:50ish at 110th/Catoma (so I'm walking from the park all up to the school... hmm, if the Kids can do this every day, what's my excuse?)
Then it'll arrive at Rosa Parks about 7:50ish, so I could then walk thru Confederate Park and smell the roses on my way to work. I could take a connection right to the doors of the building but why spend another $1 there when I can move my two feet a bit faster?
Homeward bound, I wouldn't get home until about 7:30. Eh. That part I don't like at all.
So as a summer thing, I'm okay saving some bucks. But this could NOT work if I have to drop off/pick up my son at school.
Quote from: KenFSU on May 24, 2011, 10:58:53 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 23, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
Find a way to do it.
Quote from: Doctor_K on May 24, 2011, 10:33:49 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 23, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
Find a way to do it.
Oh I would, believe me. If any of the routes went where I needed them to go, in a timely manner.
Same here.
Choosing to "dump the pump" would add no less than three hours of extra travel to my work day. JTA can frame it as if the spoiled consumer is choosing to drive rather than take the bus all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that one day's commute to work via JTA bus takes longer than my entire week's commute in my own vehicle. I'd love the opportunity to take the bus to work, but not if it means sacrificing 33% of my non-working, non-sleeping day to do so. It'd be nice to be able to not worry about driving and to do a crossword or catch up on some work on the bus. But it's not so nice to start The Lord of the Rings while waiting on the bus in the morning and running out of movie by the time you get home at night.
Same here about the added travel time. JTA is useless as a reliable method of transportation - I remember when I was in college ten years ago, jobs required you to have your own transportation (aka "a car"). The bus wasn't considered a good way to get to work.
It was just as bad in the late 1990s when I had to use the bus to get to and from work. Leave two hours 15 minutes before the start of my shift and pray for a ride home at the end of it because the buses quit running to that area after 8 or 9 PM.
The bus system sucks and in its current state is totally unusable for most of the city's employed residents or anybody wanting to run errands in a timely fashion.
For all of us with issues for JTA (which i agree with those issues) Dump the pump! Consider Electric car!
It only works for a random some of people. You knida have to live on a direct path.
The bus system sucks and in its current state is totally unusable for most of the city's employed residents or anybody wanting to run errands in a timely fashion.
[/quote]
Well its working some somebody. JTA had 10-11 million trips last year and they're running more than 8% higher this year. I think duvaldude is a good example. It works for him. I'm sure it works for many. And for many it doesn't.
There is 840 sq miles of Jacksonville to cover. Not sure any transit agency could do that and satisfy everybody. Look at the Skyway. More people could use it to go to lunch, dinner, work/back - but how many actually do. Not nearly enough.
Everybody would use it if it picked them up right outside their house and dropped them off right at the office door with no stops in between.
Quote from: exnewsman on May 24, 2011, 03:55:13 PM
The bus system sucks and in its current state is totally unusable for most of the city's employed residents or anybody wanting to run errands in a timely fashion.
Well its working some somebody. JTA had 10-11 million trips last year and they're running more than 8% higher this year. I think duvaldude is a good example. It works for him. I'm sure it works for many. And for many it doesn't.
There is 840 sq miles of Jacksonville to cover. Not sure any transit agency could do that and satisfy everybody. Look at the Skyway. More people could use it to go to lunch, dinner, work/back - but how many actually do. Not nearly enough.
Everybody would use it if it picked them up right outside their house and dropped them off right at the office door with no stops in between.
Well it worked for me to get to work. It would have been a hassle to get anywhere else. The avenues mall for example would take me two buses and its around the corner. Those are the kind of things they have to fix. Thats ridiculos
I think all JTA officials & city leaders responsible for transit should lead by example & "dump the pump" if they expect others to. Let's see how well it works out for them.
Quote from: peestandingup on May 24, 2011, 04:29:40 PM
I think all JTA officials & city leaders responsible for transit should lead by example & "dump the pump" if they expect others to. Let's see how well it works out for them.
exactly +1
Quote from: exnewsman on May 24, 2011, 03:55:13 PM
Everybody would use it if it picked them up right outside their house and dropped them off right at the office door with no stops in between.
I'm not naive enough to think that such an example would be viable either (although I figured that was more sarcastic than anything). All I'm saying is, based on where I live, work, and work (2 jobs), none of the routes as-listed on JTA's site are worthwhile for me.
The L9 route used to be practically doorstep-to-doorstep for me, and I'm sad that they took it away as an option. My problem is less with the routes (although those have been discussed at length on this forum in general) and more with the 50- to 60-plus-minute headways.
I'm glad that the bus system, as operational right now, works for some. I am of the opinion, however incorrect it might be, that if they at least doubled the buses (i.e., halved the headways), there might be increased ridership that went with that. Part of the problem with the bus system is that they're so far spaced out (time-wise), that it just adds to the "not viable" option for someone like me.
And while I'm not saying "it's all about me," I'm sure that there are lots of other people who would want to make the bus a more integral part of their commute but the long headways make it untenable.
I am of the opinion, however incorrect it might be, that if they at least doubled the buses (i.e., halved the headways), there might be increased ridership that went with that. Part of the problem with the bus system is that they're so far spaced out (time-wise), that it just adds to the "not viable" option for someone like me.
[/quote]
I think $$$ plays a major role in that. I wonder what would happen if they scaled back their service to a smaller area, but increased the frequency of those routes - making it a btter service. Then what do you tell those who are no longer served? Its a problem.
Quote from: exnewsman on May 24, 2011, 03:55:13 PM
Well its working some somebody. JTA had 10-11 million trips last year and they're running more than 8% higher this year. I think duvaldude is a good example. It works for him. I'm sure it works for many. And for many it doesn't.
I am of the opinion that a majority of those 10-11 million trips are from riders who have no other choice for transportation other than walking. I think JTA can serve almost all of us, it is just not a good use of time to do so.
Some people just have no other choice than to use the inefficient JTA.
Quote from: Gators312 on May 24, 2011, 11:46:54 PM
Quote from: exnewsman on May 24, 2011, 03:55:13 PM
Well its working some somebody. JTA had 10-11 million trips last year and they're running more than 8% higher this year. I think duvaldude is a good example. It works for him. I'm sure it works for many. And for many it doesn't.
I am of the opinion that a majority of those 10-11 million trips are from riders who have no other choice for transportation other than walking. I think JTA can serve almost all of us, it is just not a good use of time to do so.
Some people just have no other choice than to use the inefficient JTA.
Truth. Anyone who's ridden the bus here in Jax multiple times knows that the vast majority of people who are on there simply HAVE to be. You've got your poor, your disabled, the guy who got busted one too many times for DUI, the single mom with her kids, etc. I'd imagine there's a very very tiny percentage of riders there simply because they chose to go carless.
Which is really why the whole "dump the pump" thing is kinda absurd at this point. Like I said, JTA & city transit authorities. You first.
Quote from: peestandingup on May 25, 2011, 02:35:57 AM
Which is really why the whole "dump the pump" thing is kinda absurd at this point. Like I said, JTA & city transit authorities. You first.
+1
Quote from: peestandingup on May 25, 2011, 02:35:57 AM
Quote from: Gators312 on May 24, 2011, 11:46:54 PM
Quote from: exnewsman on May 24, 2011, 03:55:13 PM
Well its working some somebody. JTA had 10-11 million trips last year and they're running more than 8% higher this year. I think duvaldude is a good example. It works for him. I'm sure it works for many. And for many it doesn't.
I am of the opinion that a majority of those 10-11 million trips are from riders who have no other choice for transportation other than walking. I think JTA can serve almost all of us, it is just not a good use of time to do so.
Some people just have no other choice than to use the inefficient JTA.
Truth. Anyone who's ridden the bus here in Jax multiple times knows that the vast majority of people who are on there simply HAVE to be. You've got your poor, your disabled, the guy who got busted one too many times for DUI, the single mom with her kids, etc. I'd imagine there's a very very tiny percentage of riders there simply because they chose to go carless.
Which is really why the whole "dump the pump" thing is kinda absurd at this point. Like I said, JTA & city transit authorities. You first.
+1
JTA is not a usable transit system for people who have any other option available to them.
Hour-long headways on many routes, combined with an asinine route structure that forces every rider to first go downtown and change buses at Rosa Parks station regardless of whether or not their destination was right down the street, really eliminates the possibility of JTA being a viable transit option for people with any kind of schedule.
It takes two hours to get anywhere on JTA. After you wait a half-hour for the bus, you then spend 40 minutes circling back to Rosa Parks station downtown, where you get to wait another half hour for the connecting bus, and then spend another 40 minutes on that circling around to your destination. Plus however much time you spent walking to/from the bus stops.
There are only 8 hours in the average work day. Most people would rather ride a herpetic donkey to work than spend an additional 4 hours commuting there and back on JTA.
If all the routes currently go downtown, seems like one fix is to put several of transfer stations as hubs throughout this large city. Have shorter loops that only end at these hubs, which allow people to go elsewhere (even downtown) from there.
Gainesville is a lot smaller in land area, and even their routes don't all go downtown!
Quote from: danem on May 25, 2011, 11:11:48 AM
If all the routes currently go downtown, seems like one fix is to put several of transfer stations as hubs throughout this large city. Have shorter loops that only end at these hubs, which allow people to go elsewhere (even downtown) from there.
Gainesville is a lot smaller in land area, and even their routes don't all go downtown!
Makes a lot of sense. With the passage of the mobility plan, and thus I believe commuter rail finally moving forward for real, some of those 'hubs' could be at multimodal stations along the rail spine.
For the south commuter rail route alone, that could mean that stations at...
Greenland Rd, The Avenues, Baymeadows, JTB, University/Bowden/Old St. Aug, Emerson, and San Marco/Atlantic
...each would have a handful of dedicated "regional" or "shuttle service"-type bus routes emanating from them for the immediate surrounding areas.
More reliable and available service, MUCH shorter headways, links to the commuter rail spine, denser infill along at least the rail spine, less traffic (or at least reduced traffic growth) on the Southside due to reliable and relevant bus- and rail-based mass transit.
And if I remember correctly, this southeast commuter rail alignment was projected to have the lowest ridership of the original three. I can only imagine how much greater the impact would be on the North side and in the Southwest quadrant.
I can't see any down sides to this.
Quote from: peestandingup on May 25, 2011, 02:35:57 AM
Truth. Anyone who's ridden the bus here in Jax multiple times knows that the vast majority of people who are on there simply HAVE to be.
this is true for almost every mass transit agency in the country...generally, those that are transit-captive (have no access to a car) comprise 60-80% of system ridership....even transit-heavy cities like DC, CHI, and NYC are around 60%....in the case of JTA, it is around 75%.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 25, 2011, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on May 25, 2011, 02:35:57 AM
Truth. Anyone who's ridden the bus here in Jax multiple times knows that the vast majority of people who are on there simply HAVE to be.
this is true for almost every mass transit agency in the country...generally, those that are transit-captive (have no access to a car) comprise 60-80% of system ridership....even transit-heavy cities like DC, CHI, and NYC are around 60%....in the case of JTA, it is around 75%.
TU-
I am curious how much of that 60-80% choose to not have a car in the cities you mention? Transit works there so it is a real alternative to having a car. The NE corridor transit is capable of moving people from large city to large city in addition to being efficient inside those cities as well.
It pretty much eliminates the need for a car, and in those cities parking is a huge logistical issue and expense for the everyday car owner.
I think the choice of having no car at all is really only made in NYC...in cities like Chicago, Dc, Bostron, San Fran, etc. most still choose have at least 1 car...but they may choose not to have 2 or more.
so the real question here is...assuming JTA had a decent transit system, how many folks would be willing to give up their car(s) entirely?
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 25, 2011, 01:31:40 PM
I think the choice of having no car at all is really only made in NYC...in cities like Chicago, Dc, Bostron, San Fran, etc. most still choose have at least 1 car...but they may choose not to have 2 or more.
so the real question here is...assuming JTA had a decent transit system, how many folks would be willing to give up their car(s) entirely?
I don't know about entirely. I like to be able to trek off out of town or go see family, and in some instances, I prefer the more direct route that the car could take. That said, I would gladly take transit at least part of the time to cut down on using the car just for certain errands nearby--especially for some SJTC visits.
Quote from: Gators312 on May 24, 2011, 11:46:54 PM
Quote from: exnewsman on May 24, 2011, 03:55:13 PM
Well its working some somebody. JTA had 10-11 million trips last year and they're running more than 8% higher this year. I think duvaldude is a good example. It works for him. I'm sure it works for many. And for many it doesn't.
I am of the opinion that a majority of those 10-11 million trips are from riders who have no other choice for transportation other than walking. I think JTA can serve almost all of us, it is just not a good use of time to do so.
Some people just have no other choice than to use the inefficient JTA.
I'm one of them, due to being legally blind. And with the southern conservative, it's every man for himself, and if you can't get yours than tough but don't expect us to bail you out, powers that be, I find it very frustrating that they treat us like welfare abusers. And nevermind the lack of regard for pedestrian rights.
Social services are all located in the burbs, some of them like Social Security and the Division of Blind Services (I use these as examples because I familiar with them) do not even Have a bus that runs by them! The people they serve can't drive! So instead of forcing us to be a further burden on loved ones, let's move
ALL social services downtown in some of these empty buildings. Many are just blocks away from the Skyway. DBS preaches and teaches of independence in living and mobility. Here's the perfect chance at implementing this lesson. Encourage these people with disabilities to get themselves to their appointments at their specific service sites DownTown.