I know Alvin is the first black Mayor in Jacksonville, but isn't he the first black mayor in NE Florida period? And you may even can stretch that to central florida and panhandle (But this is a stretch).
I do not remember any black mayors from the surrounding counties, most of them are in South Florida.
Count Green Cove Springs as one of the NE FL cities that has already passed this milestone!
John Marks was first in Tallyhoe
I think orlando has too. If Im not mistaken
I for one, could not be more thrilled. Congratulations Mayor-Elect Alvin Brown!
Good luck to him. A big task has dropped at his feet.
As a foreigner I am sometimes puzzled that this is a topic... I hope people voted for him because of his ideas/plans and what he stands for. Do people in 2011 still vote based on gender /ethnicity / sexual orientation? Isn't the USA supposed to be the big melting pot?
PS. Did anyone check his birth certificate?
Quote from: Beloki on May 19, 2011, 06:48:16 AM
As a foreigner I am sometimes puzzled that this is a topic... I hope people voted for him because of his ideas/plans and what he stands for. Do people in 2011 still vote based on gender /ethnicity / sexual orientation? Isn't the USA supposed to be the big melting pot?
PS. Did anyone check his birth certificate?
Beloki, I am sure that 99% of us who voted for Brown did so for the same reasons you did. However we recognize that there are still people out there for whom gender/ethnicity/sexual orientation DO matter and are celebrating that there are obviously fewer and fewer of those people out there as evidenced that Brown won and Audry Moran made such a strong showing.
At least in this country we aren't killing each other over differences in language/religion/ethnicity as has happened several times in Europe in the past eighty years so don't be snide.
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 19, 2011, 08:00:46 AM
At least in this country we aren't killing each other over differences in language/religion/ethnicity as has happened several times in Europe in the past eighty years so don't be snide.
I did not meant to be snide or smart nor did I ever claimed the above not to be true.. however female and or gay presidents are already very common and I can\t remember that being a headline in the newspaper. I just feel for the new mayor.. you win the election, months of hard work; you open the newspaper and the headlines only comment on the color of your skin.............
BTW; as a foreigner I am not allowed to vote... I do like politics and I do love the USA and Jacksonville ;-))
Beloki,
As Dog Walker pointed out, I think this is being celebrated because it indicates we are moving in the right direction as a society. It's a FIRST so it is going to be a topic. Next time it happens it won't be a big deal.
btw, I didn't take your original post offensively. Seemed like you were just expressing sincere wonderment.
Beloki,
Its so great you are here and you love Jacksonville!!!
My wife is a resident alien and was very skeptical of jax until recently.
Until yesterday. She does love our city.
Its (very) important that you state your views as you did so that we "locals" can look
at our city from a fresh (worldly) perspective.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 18, 2011, 08:51:57 PM
I think orlando has too. If Im not mistaken
Well Orlando has been way ahead of Jax, in that it had their first woman mayor TWO DECADES ago:
QuoteGlenda Hood
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31st Mayor of Orlando
In office
1992â€"2003
Preceded by W. D. "Bill" Frederick, Jr.
Succeeded by Buddy Dyer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenda Evans Hood (born March 10, 1950)[1] is a U.S. politician, who was Secretary of State of Florida, from 2003 to 2005, and the first woman to serve as Mayor of Orlando (1992-2003).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenda_Hood
In terms of racism our civil rights movement was a watershed moment that most European countries have not had yet.
Quote from: Beloki on May 19, 2011, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 19, 2011, 08:00:46 AM
At least in this country we aren't killing each other over differences in language/religion/ethnicity as has happened several times in Europe in the past eighty years so don't be snide.
I did not meant to be snide or smart nor did I ever claimed the above not to be true.. however female and or gay presidents are already very common and I can\t remember that being a headline in the newspaper. I just feel for the new mayor.. you win the election, months of hard work; you open the newspaper and the headlines only comment on the color of your skin.............
BTW; as a foreigner I am not allowed to vote... I do like politics and I do love the USA and Jacksonville ;-))
I don't think anybody would deny that we are behind the times in the United States when it comes to gay rights, however I do think we have rounded the final corner some time ago on traditional racism. We have an african-american president, and, as the title of this thread indicates, Jacksonville just elected an african-american mayor. That would really seem to deflate the idea of there being some huge issue with racism.
For the record, many european countries who look down at the social climate in the U.S., like France as but one example, have equally large and diverse minority segments, yet while they view the US as a bunch of racist hicks, they have never themselves elected a minority pesident, as we have. It would seem to me, without having a dog in this fight, that these allegedly "enlightened" nations haven't made the strides we've made. Not that this apparently changes their perception of the U.S.
I think DogWalker was pointing out that there is a rather vast sea of contradictions between the typical european viewpoint on the treatment of minorities in the U.S., and the treatment of minorities in their own countries. As a side note, if we want to get technical, slavery in the United States ended 150 years ago, while slavery in europe only ended in 1945. I suppose we could also discuss the european treatment of gypsies, any gripe about racism in this country tends to pale in comparison to what's happening with that.
Quote from: Beloki on May 19, 2011, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 19, 2011, 08:00:46 AM
At least in this country we aren't killing each other over differences in language/religion/ethnicity as has happened several times in Europe in the past eighty years so don't be snide.
I did not meant to be snide or smart nor did I ever claimed the above not to be true.. however female and or gay presidents are already very common and I can\t remember that being a headline in the newspaper.
Yeah, I guess the US does it in reverse..........in the US we elect an african-american minority before electing a gay minority or a female majority, as is very common in European nations and around the world.
Brazil, Germany, India, Israel, the UK and many other nations have already had a female President. Even in Africa they are ahead on that front compared to the US!!!
PS I am very proud of Jax chosing to go a NEW direction!!!
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on May 19, 2011, 12:27:45 PM
Quote from: Beloki on May 19, 2011, 11:08:45 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 19, 2011, 08:00:46 AM
At least in this country we aren't killing each other over differences in language/religion/ethnicity as has happened several times in Europe in the past eighty years so don't be snide.
I did not meant to be snide or smart nor did I ever claimed the above not to be true.. however female and or gay presidents are already very common and I can\t remember that being a headline in the newspaper. I just feel for the new mayor.. you win the election, months of hard work; you open the newspaper and the headlines only comment on the color of your skin.............
BTW; as a foreigner I am not allowed to vote... I do like politics and I do love the USA and Jacksonville ;-))
I don't think anybody would deny that we are behind the times in the United States when it comes to gay rights, however I do think we have rounded the final corner some time ago on traditional racism. We have an african-american president, and, as the title of this thread indicates, Jacksonville just elected an african-american mayor. That would really seem to deflate the idea of there being some huge issue with racism.
For the record, many european countries who look down at the social climate in the U.S., like France as but one example, have equally large and diverse minority segments, yet while they view the US as a bunch of racist hicks, they have never elected a minority pesident, as we have. It would seem to me, without having a dog in this fight, that these allegedly "enlightened" nations haven't made the strides we've made. Not that this apparently changes their perception of the U.S.
I think DogWalker was pointing out that there is a rather vast sea of contradictions between the typical european viewpoint on the treatment of minorities in the U.S., and the treatment of minorities in their own countries.
My wife isn't a US citizen either and she'll be the first to tell you that racism is alive and well in Europe. She's from Italy, and racism exists towards...well practically anyone who isn't italian (particularly Indians and Romanians or "gypsies" like Chris mentioned). Sure, European countries have elected both male and female leaders. But please tell me who the first black prime minister of, say, England was. Or the first non-Italian PM of Italy. Or the first non white German chancellor of Germany. Or the first publicly gay prime minister of England. Or, really, any gay world leader other than the lady in Iceland whose name I can't remember.
America is different than these places. We are a country of all peoples from all places. Traditionally the white male has held onto power, mainly because they were the ones who had it to begin with way back when the country was started. It took awhile for that to change. While here the tide is finally turning, I do not see that happening across the enlightened countries of mother Europe. Yeah, it's not perfect here, but there's a reason my wife lives here and not in her beautiful yet doggedly old-fashioned home country.
Wikipedia has a list of cities that have had black mayors in the US. Is there a list of cities that haven't? I bet it's a mile long.
I wasn't crazy about Nat Glover or Alvin Brown but these are barriers that have to be broken and I'm glad they have been.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 19, 2011, 12:28:42 PM
In terms of racism our civil rights movement was a watershed moment that most European countries have not had yet.
Well, I can only speak from a western European perspective: UK, Germany, France, Benelux, scandinavian countries.............and there we do not need a "civil rights movement" that was meant to correct the discrimination that occurred following the abolition of slavery in the US.
In general:
Quoteopenmindedness helps keep racism, at least overt racism, lower in Europe
QuoteAyaan Hirsi AliFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, 2006
Born November 13, 1969 (1969-11-13) (age 41)
Mogadishu, Somalia
Nationality Dutch
Alma mater Leiden University
Occupation politician, writer
Influenced by John Stuart Mill, Friedrich Hayek, Simone de Beauvoir, Karl Popper, Herman Philipse
Political party 2001-2002: Partij van de Arbeid (PvdA) (Labour Party)
2002-present Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (VVD) (People's Party for Freedom and Democracy)
Religion None (Atheist)
Ayaan Hirsi Ali ( pronunciation (help·info); Somali: Ayaan Xirsi Cali Arabic: أيان حرسي علي; born Ayaan Hirsi Magan; 13 November 1969) is a Somali-Dutch feminist activist, writer, politician and founder of the women's rights organisation the AHA Foundation.[1] She is the daughter of the Somali scholar, politician, and revolutionary opposition leader Hirsi Magan Isse. She is a prominent critic of Islam, and her screenplay for Theo van Gogh's movie Submission led to death threats, as well as to the assassination of Theo van Gogh.
When she was eight, Hirsi Ali's family left Somalia for Saudi Arabia, then Ethiopia, and eventually settled in Kenya. She sought and obtained political asylum in the Netherlands in 1992, under circumstances that later became the center of a political controversy. In 2003 she was elected a member of the House of Representatives (the lower house of the Dutch parliament), representing the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
Quote from: FayeforCure on May 19, 2011, 12:55:54 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 19, 2011, 12:28:42 PM
In terms of racism our civil rights movement was a watershed moment that most European countries have not had yet.
Well, I can only speak from a western European perspective: UK, Germany, France, Benelux, scandinavian countries.............and there we do not need a "civil rights movement" that was meant to correct the discrimination that occured following the abolition of slavery in the US.
In general:
Quoteopenmindedness helps keep racism, at least overt racism, lower in Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
[/quote]
I agree the problem in modern history had a worse peek here. We managed to make a lot more progress because here something had to be done.
In very recent times in Germany Soccer crowds have chanted the N word at visiting African teams. That would never be acceptable here. We still have work to do but we are certainly not behind in terms of Racism.
I was talking with a friend at lunch about the election. He worked for Ed Austins campaign way back when Mayor Ed ran for mayor. He was closely watching the election and brought up something I had not really thought about. He recalled back in the early years of the Jaguars, and we couldn't remember exactly what year, but it was the year the Jags went to the playoffs and the first team they faced was the Broncos in Denver. As you all recall, the Jagwads were a heavy underdog and the Broncos didn't take us seriously and were already looking ahead to the next team. We all know what happened. He said the same thing occurred with Hogans team. They were so sure they would be the next mayor they were already making plans on what color to paint the walls in the mayors office and totally overlooked the other team, who went quietly about the job and when the clock hit 0:00 the underdog had pulled out the upset. They underestimated the other team and paid for it.
Just a little different way of looking at the election this week.
jrg
JeffreyS, actually Europe is starting to see more racism with the advent of right-wing xenophobic groups. In essence Europe has started to follow the example of the US using the politics of hatred.
But it all started in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSamSc-Jok
In my experience... the racism in Europe, Asia, and the Middle east is much more "in your face" and out in the open than here. Derogatory terms for minorities are used openly and with vigor. Do not be fooled by the so called "racial progressiveness" of Europe and Asia... it is a fallacy. In Japan I have been welcomed into a bar or night club only to have the African American friend with me told he could NOT enter... because he was black.
While the race relations in this country can certainly use work... the idea that Europe or Asia is superior in this area is patently false.
It's me again... Can't believe some of the reactions. Them against us is still something people like to engage in (as in them on the westside, them in Europe them in Orlando, them, them them them.)
Anyhow, I just hope Alvin sees himself as the new mayor of Jacksonville, not the new black mayor of Jacksonville (as a reaction to the heading of this subject and newspaper)
Still love you all
And we love to have you on here and commenting.
Tribalism, the meta-category of racism is part of basic human nature so its hard to get around the "us and them" divides of any kind. Just look at football fans! We just have to learn that our "tribe" is everybody.
Faye, the Netherlands are a special case about tolerance. The Dutch have to be the most pragmatic, hardheaded, down to earth nationality in the world. You are not "typical" Europeans at all.
Beloki,
It is a huge accomplishment. Given Jacksonville's history in regards to race relations, this is a history changing moment for this city. And it is even more personal for someone whose Africian American. As an Africian American, I have the most overwhelming feelings right now. Growing up being called racial slurs, being treated differently because your are a different, or being considered the "underdog" because you are black, this is a HUGE deal. If you dont know, I advise that you research in depth the history of this city and race relations. Its very ugly. Even now, things are still segregated and we dont even realize it. " Oh thats the black club" Or "thats the white club", "thats the black church" or " thats the white church." We are so used to being segregated in this city we dont even realize what is happening. This election will hopefully unit this city as one and stop the division. So the title of the First Black Mayor IS a big deal.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 19, 2011, 02:06:30 PM
Beloki,
It is a huge accomplishment. Given Jacksonville's history in regards to race relations, this is a history changing moment for this city. And it is even more personal for someone whose Africian American. As an Africian American, I have the most overwhelming feelings right now. Growing up being called racial slurs, being treated differently because your are a different, or being considered the "underdog" because you are black, this is a HUGE deal. If you dont know, I advise that you research in depth the history of this city and race relations. Its very ugly. Even now, things are still segregated and we dont even realize it. " Oh thats the black club" Or "thats the white club", "thats the black church" or " thats the white church." We are so used to being segregated in this city we dont even realize what is happening. This election will hopefully unit this city as one and stop the division. So the title of the First Black Mayor IS a big deal.
Absolutely...
Beloki, And the reason we are celebrating isn't that Alvin Brown is black; its because he was elected anyway, in spite of it, which sends the message to us that it doesn't matter as much as it used to.
That's progress! Makes us feel better about our fellow citizens.
This campaign DID exhibit open and blatant discrimination against zombies. Don't the undead have the right to be treated like everyone else, and not have their name used in the pejorative ?
Quote from: stephendare on May 19, 2011, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: FayeforCure on May 19, 2011, 01:36:07 PM
JeffreyS, actually Europe is starting to see more racism with the advent of right-wing xenophobic groups. In essence Europe has started to follow the example of the US using the politics of hatred.
But it all started in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSamSc-Jok
This is patently untrue. We brought our racism with us from our countries of origin, Faye. They US didnt invent racist politics. Ask Shylock.
Its my significant experience abroad, in the balkans no less, that i support Stevens post.
The right wing xenophobic movement is true, and would SHOCK Americans, as it did me!
I think it is a major milestone for Jacksonville. Hopefully a sign of major changes for the good coming.
Germany and Italy make stateside racism look like the minor leagues.
"However we recognize that there are still people out there for whom gender/ethnicity/sexual orientation DO matter and are celebrating that there are obviously fewer and fewer of those people out there as evidenced that Brown won"....so if a person who is black votes for a black person BECAUSE the candidate is black...they aren't racist?
If they believe black is superior and acted on it that is racist. If someone votes to promote diversity based on race it may not be racist just an attempt to make sure their government is representative of all.
I observed something that I found very odd yesterday, especially in light of the recent election, and would appreciate some insight from this board. I think it's relevant to this discussion.
A neatly dressed, articulate JEA employee - who also happened to be African American - visited my Springfield home in connection with a JEA conservation project. A male friend - who works in construction and was NOT well dressed, was scruffy, tattooed, etc. - was there at the time working on the house. He shook hands with and introduced himself to the JEA employee, who then repeatedly referred to my friend as "Boss" and "Boss Man."
My friend, who is from Minnesota (which according to him contains at least as racist a population as does Florida), said later that he was offended by those comments which he told me he hears often from African American men he meets in Jacksonville. It was definitely weird - in this case, the JEA employee must certainly earn more and have better benefits than my self-employed friend and there was nothing in my friend's appearance or attitude, at least as far as I could tell, that should have brought those comments on. The JEA employee seemed comfortable and I really don't believe he intended any offense.
My friend did not react to the comments at the time but now feels he should have let the JEA employee know he thought they were inappropriate and made him uncomfortable - he's certainly nobody's "Boss Man". How should my friend have responded?
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 19, 2011, 02:05:52 PM
And we love to have you on here and commenting.
Tribalism, the meta-category of racism is part of basic human nature so its hard to get around the "us and them" divides of any kind. Just look at football fans! We just have to learn that our "tribe" is everybody.
Faye, the Netherlands are a special case about tolerance. The Dutch have to be the most pragmatic, hardheaded, down to earth nationality in the world. You are not "typical" Europeans at all.
Thanks Dog Walker! I have always been proud of the impact such a tiny country can make on the large world out there.
The Dutch also always tried to make alliances with the locals as they did in Brazil, Indonesia etc.
Dutch prosperity came from being savvy traders around the world. Unfortunately, and disgracefully so, they also played a major role in the slave trade.
The spread of African-Americans around the world through slavery, with The Middle East being the largest destination, followed by Brazil.........and North America only accounting for 4.4% of European slave trade:
QuoteNumber of Africans deported to the Americas by the Europeans: about 10-15 million (about 30-40 million died before reaching the Americas).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Africans deported by Arabs to the Middle East: about 17 million.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
European slave trade by destination
Brazil: 4,000,000 35.4%
Spanish Empire: 2,500,000 22.1%
British West Indies: 2,000,000 17.7%
French West Indies: 1,600,00 14.1%
British North America: 500,000 4.4%
Dutch West Indies: 500,000 4.4%
Danish West Indies: 28,000 0.2%
Europe: 200,000 1.8%
Total 1500-1900: 11,328,000 100.0%
Source: "The Slave Trade", Hugh Thomas, 1997
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The slave trade was abolished by Britain in 1812, and subsequently by all other European countries. Portugal and France, though, continued to import slaves, although as contract labourers, which they called respectively "libertos" or "engages a` temps".
Portugal had a virtual monopoly on the African slave trade to the Americas until the mid 1650s, when Holland became a major competitor. In the period 1700-1800 Britain became the leading "importer".
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/slavetra.html
The Dutch have tried to atone for their role in human rights violations of the past: They now house the Hague World Court of Human Rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice
The majority of African-Dutch in the Netherlands are recent immigrants from Nigeria. As a matter of fact, my former sister in law married a Nigerian.
Most immigrants in the Netherlands are from either Marocco or Turkey, for the same reason the US uses Mexican immigrants..........to do the work they don't want to do themselves.
Quote from: stephendare on May 20, 2011, 07:24:26 AM
The best way for your friend to respond in the future is to say something along the lines of "Bossman? Please...My name is John Smith, please call me John." that supplies the name that is being substituted.
That's exactly what I suggested, Stephen. Glad to see that you agree with my take on this.
I noticed the whole bossman thing here in Jax. I get that a lot when I am in town and happen to be wearing my shirt and tie from work. I do not take offense, but believe that there is a casual formality from the 'bossman' term.