Here is my list:
1. Remove all parking meters immediately. No tickets written except for handicap parking violations.
2. Make all streets two-way where feasible.
3. Re-time traffic lights.
4. Plan multiple festivals, events, parades and street parties. Close down certain streets for this. COJ pays for and executes these events. But they cannot spend more than $10,000 per event. 10-20 events minimum per year spread throughout the Landing, Adams, Forsyth & Bay Street Entertainment district. Oh, first of all, COJ must acknowledge that we actually have an entertainment district. Budget for this comes from scaling back the $750,000 spent each year on the Jazz Fest (my estimate).
5. JSO must go back to having visible officers patrolling nightlife areas on foot. That's right: no cars, bikes or horses. Just like their grandfathers did. This will help Downtown in numerous ways.
6. Re-route certain buses to drop off and pick up at Hemming Plaza. Like they did when Downtown was a vibrant area. It used to work, wonder why this ever changed? Maybe it was to be closer to FCCJ?
7. Have actual downtown business owners and residents sit in on the decision making that goes on in the Mayors office in planning the yearly special event calendar.
8. Run a free trolley on Fri and Sat nights from Riverside to the Downtown Entertainment District from 8pm-3am. Works at the Beach, why not Downtown?
9. Do not spend another dime on any expert consultants or do any more studies.
The time to act is now.
Regards,
Mark Hemphill
Mark's & The Dive Bar
Some good points.
10. Moratorium on suburban road building/widening/overpasses so that we can stop subsidizing the continued sprawl of our city.
Quote from: marksjax on May 11, 2011, 03:59:05 AM
Here is my list:
1. Remove all parking meters immediately. No tickets written except for handicap parking violations.
2. Make all streets two-way where feasible.
3. Re-time traffic lights.
4. Plan multiple festivals, events, parades and street parties. Close down certain streets for this. COJ pays for and executes these events. But they cannot spend more than $10,000 per event. 10-20 events minimum per year spread throughout the Landing, Adams, Forsyth & Bay Street Entertainment district. Oh, first of all, COJ must acknowledge that we actually have an entertainment district. Budget for this comes from scaling back the $750,000 spent each year on the Jazz Fest (my estimate).
5. JSO must go back to having visible officers patrolling nightlife areas on foot. That's right: no cars, bikes or horses. Just like their grandfathers did. This will help Downtown in numerous ways.
6. Re-route certain buses to drop off and pick up at Hemming Plaza. Like they did when Downtown was a vibrant area. It used to work, wonder why this ever changed? Maybe it was to be closer to FCCJ?
7. Have actual downtown business owners and residents sit in on the decision making that goes on in the Mayors office in planning the yearly special event calendar.
8. Run a free trolley on Fri and Sat nights from Riverside to the Downtown Entertainment District from 8pm-3am. Works at the Beach, why not Downtown?
9. Do not spend another dime on any expert consultants or do any more studies.
The time to act is now.
Regards,
Mark Hemphill
Mark's & The Dive Bar
Great list. You would need an enforced 2 hour limit on parking from 9-5 M-F only. You wouldn't need meters though, just enforcement.
Otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing.
Here are a few more things to do that actually save the city money, while also spurring revitalization:
11. Modify public policy and work with existing building owners to agressively encourage the integration of ground level businesses with the sidewalks.
12. Modify public policy to allow creative uses like mobile food truck courts, etc. to add life to vacant lots.
13. Instead of having buses stop at Hemming, get them out of downtown (kill the loop system). Instead, make the skyway free and run it like a real fixed transit spine by force all buses into skyway end points. This will do four things:
A. Cut down on mass transit O&M costs.
B. Increase bus frequencies for other neighborhoods throughout the city.
C. Max out ridership numbers on the skyway, ending the talk of it being useless.
D. Create more opportunities for infill business in DT because of the increased accessibility.
14. As for on-street parking, to deal with the meter lovers, in areas that need the turnover, add 2-3hr parking limits with signs only, just like they do in Park & King, Five Points and San Marco Square.
15. Sell off or lease out excess city owned property and buildings.
16. Maintain the public ROW (pick up the trash, light the streets, maintain the landscaping, etc.).
17. Coordinate between public agencies. For example, if public works, JTA or FDOT is going to do repave a street, make sure things like bike lanes, multiuse shared paths, mass transit and placement of on-street parking are considered on an equal level to automobile movement.
18. Preserve the remaining building stock. Empty buildings are better than surface parking lots and abandoned lots for a walkable environement.
19. Whatever you do, apply this concept: "Cluster Complementing Uses Within A Compact Setting." Pedestrian level vibrancy can only be created by putting things closely together so they can feed off each other. This is where we've failed the most in downtown during the last 30 years.
A purpose of the Skyway was to remove buses from downtown, good points, Lake, i.e., on item #13, everybody on everything.
Quote9. Do not spend another dime on any expert consultants or do any more studies.
I would modify this to say 9. Do not spend another dime on any expert consultants or do any more studies if you are just going to ignore what they say.
Add, push last call to 3 or 4am downtown.
Oh and a nice paddle wheel casino boat cruising up and down the St. Johns...
Quote4. Plan multiple festivals, events, parades and street parties. Close down certain streets for this. COJ pays for and executes these events. But they cannot spend more than $10,000 per event. 10-20 events minimum per year spread throughout the Landing, Adams, Forsyth & Bay Street Entertainment district. Oh, first of all, COJ must acknowledge that we actually have an entertainment district. Budget for this comes from scaling back the $750,000 spent each year on the Jazz Fest (my estimate).
Quote
8. Run a free trolley on Fri and Sat nights from Riverside to the Downtown Entertainment District from 8pm-3am. Works at the Beach, why not Downtown?
Working on it....
Mark Hemphill for Mayor in 2015/2019? :)
20. Resident, residents, residents. Aggressively move to repopulate downtown, and start pushing owners to prepare empty buildings for residents. Use Carrot/Stick method if necessary.
21. Adjust Zoning so that residential and commercial can more easily co-exist without seeking exceptions. The urban core should be dense, and that means mixed uses. The more hoops you make owners jump through, the less you will get accomplished.
Quote from: Demosthenes on May 11, 2011, 11:29:26 AM
20. Resident, residents, residents. Aggressively move to repopulate downtown, and start pushing owners to prepare empty buildings for residents. Use Carrot/Stick method if necessary.
21. Adjust Zoning so that residential and commercial can more easily co-exist without seeking exceptions. The urban core should be dense, and that means mixed uses. The more hoops you make owners jump through, the less you will get accomplished.
+1
Hey, you gotta start somewhere. These are relatively cheap ideas that could be in place within 90 days if our Mayor and city council would be pro active. The time is now city leaders. What's it gonna be?
You wanna just watch what's left of downtown die a slow and painful death? It's not up to me, it's up to you, the city leaders to lead. That's what we hired you for, right?
Even if these proposals don't work at least we can say that we, as a community, tried something a little outside the box for a change. The box we are in now ain't working.
We have little to lose and much to gain.
Quote from: marksjax on May 11, 2011, 11:49:27 AM
Hey, you gotta start somewhere. These are relatively cheap ideas that could be in place within 90 days if our Mayor and city council would be pro active. The time is now city leaders. What's it gonna be?
You wanna just watch what's left of downtown die a slow and painful death? It's not up to me, it's up to you, the city leaders to lead. That's what we hired you for, right?
Even if these proposals don't work at least we can say that we, as a community, tried something a little outside the box for a change. The box we are in now ain't working.
We have little to lose and much to gain.
These ideas arent that out of the box. Other cities have successfully rebuilt downtowns. There really isnt a ton of guess work. Just a desire to do it. Something Jax has seemingly always lacked.
You guys are talking crazy talk! All good ideas and common sense for the most part.
I really think the biggest obstacle concerning downtown is that most of the people who live in this city and who vote in elections do not care about downtown - or, they actively dislike the idea of even the appearance of money being spent downtown.
Young people looking for an exciting downtown aren't gonna wait for the older generations (who think downtown had its chance) to die off. They'll just leave and find someplace that does have an exciting downtown. Or someplace like the Town Center, a fake downtown but with the requisite shops, eateries, people watching, walkability, etc.
It's going to take a mayor with a strong backbone and a serious desire to see downtown Jax return to glory. He or she will have to push things thru and convince the citizens of Jax that improving downtown and making it attractive will not only cost the average Jax resident nothing, but perhaps save them money (more businesses downtown = more tax dollars coming in).
Personally, I'm moving out of town myself in a couple of months!
I agree with ya Bativac. I know I have gone to Orlando many times just to go out for the weekend in downtown Orlando. It's a shame that out of all the major cities in FL we probably have the worst downtown area. The sad part about it is that the powers to be seem content with keeping it that way.
Probably? No, we do. We were in a foot race with Tampa, but i'll give them the edge now because of their Channel District, new public spaces and cluster of museums.
Quote from: comncense on May 11, 2011, 01:33:35 PM
I agree with ya Bativac. I know I have gone to Orlando many times just to go out for the weekend in downtown Orlando. It's a shame that out of all the major cities in FL we probably have the worst downtown area. The sad part about it is that the powers to be seem content with keeping it that way.
Yeah - Orlando, hell even St Augustine have more going on. My wife and I will head down to Orlando for a couple days and not go anywhere near a theme park, there's enough to do.
We bought a house right next to the Hart Bridge because we liked the area and it was so close to downtown, which we really (stupidly) thought was on the upswing. She started making preparations to open a bakery downtown, even got a job in a small gym to spend more time in the area. That was 2009...... things haven't exactly improved since then.
Well, I guess they did install that roundabout. Them bumpy bricks sure are somethin'. And the statue looks real good right there in the middle.
Park JTA'S "PCT TROLLEYS" in a semi circle at the end of Hogan Street, seal the windows and doors and fill them with salt water... instant aquarium.
Make the trip into downtown pleasant by cleaning up the trash, lighting and landscaping. In rural Oklahoma towns near OSU, we had these little hard surfaces (besides what they pass as dirt) sort of white in color... they called them "sidewalks" and most little towns of 100-1,000 have them. Perhaps Jacksonville should investigate this novel technology. Oh, and it's only been 45 years, don't you think we could have found a light bulb or two for the Commodore Point Expressway?
Seriously, how about getting Amtrak back in downtown WITHOUT spending the mint on it.
OCKLAWAHA
23. Bike lanes.
The more that I look at downtown, the more I think the powers that be wish for it to stay that way! This could be why nothing has been done to this date. Too much possible money to be made by those in the know.....sweetheart deals for property that has had the buildings torn down..........kinda like in Springfield and the SRG mode of building!
EXACTLY, CS.
Quote from: Bativac on May 11, 2011, 12:05:04 PM
You guys are talking crazy talk! All good ideas and common sense for the most part.
I really think the biggest obstacle concerning downtown is that most of the people who live in this city and who vote in elections do not care about downtown - or, they actively dislike the idea of even the appearance of money being spent downtown.
Young people looking for an exciting downtown aren't gonna wait for the older generations (who think downtown had its chance) to die off. They'll just leave and find someplace that does have an exciting downtown. Or someplace like the Town Center, a fake downtown but with the requisite shops, eateries, people watching, walkability, etc.
It's going to take a mayor with a strong backbone and a serious desire to see downtown Jax return to glory. He or she will have to push things thru and convince the citizens of Jax that improving downtown and making it attractive will not only cost the average Jax resident nothing, but perhaps save them money (more businesses downtown = more tax dollars coming in).
I would agree with this ,and add that it will take subsequent administrations and councils ,etc to maintain this course. If every other major city in Florida can have a vibrant downtown , so too should Jacksonville. Look at the sprawl around Orlando ( a relatively small town in itself ) and yet its downtown area is alive practically around the clock .
Quote from: dougskiles on May 11, 2011, 05:20:14 AM
10. Moratorium on suburban road building/widening/overpasses so that we can stop subsidizing the continued sprawl of our city.
Ditto a hundred times over!
Quote from: lewyn on May 11, 2011, 12:52:19 PM
Personally, I'm moving out of town myself in a couple of months!
Sorry to hear it! You were my favorite professor.
Quote from: dougskiles on May 11, 2011, 05:20:14 AM
10. Moratorium on suburban road building/widening/overpasses so that we can stop subsidizing the continued sprawl of our city.
Doug, as you and I may have discussed before this is exactly the strategy that Portland, OR pursued - with great success.
And it costs nothing. I'm not even suggesting that we use the money saved for Downtown projects. Stopping the bleeding would be good enough.
I wonder if you guys could condense this into a list that could be submitted as a Letter to the Editor. I'd love to send it to Mike Clark and see if he'd run it, perhaps even as an op-ed piece?
There are just some really great suggestions here. I'd love to see them pushed into the discussion.
As well as all of the above mentioned ideas, I would propose a ban on destroying anymore significant Historic Buildings and making utilizing these places and tying them into the downtown vibrancy plan. We cannot afford to lose one more piece.
Gosh, we are currently spending $400 million on a new courthouse
that we really did not need. Do you think we could have fixed the entire downtown for $400 million???
Sure could put a major dent into revitalizing it with that sort of funding.....
Quote from: dougskiles on May 11, 2011, 08:32:18 PM
And it costs nothing. I'm not even suggesting that we use the money saved for Downtown projects. Stopping the bleeding would be good enough.
To take it a step further --- how much could we have done if we had the money spent on major interchange and roadway expansion projects and invested in public infrastructure systems and amenities that add to our quality of life. Think about it - 9A, I-95/9A interchange, JTB expansion, I-10/I-95 interchange, Kernan/Beach overpasses, Cecil Commerce highways, the proposed Spaghetti Junction Overland Bridge project, etc - hundreds of millions, or more. Think about mass transit/light rail, world-class parks on the river where our chain link fences now stand, public/private partnerships to restore major downtown buildings, convention centers, and all of the private development that spawns from it.
Quote from: MusicMan on May 11, 2011, 09:45:02 PM
Gosh, we are currently spending $400 million on a new courthouse
that we really did not need. Do you think we could have fixed the entire downtown for $400 million???
it is pretty tough to argue that we didn't need a new courthouse...have you been in the existinmg building? how about the overbooked courtrooms?
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 11, 2011, 11:11:28 PM
Quote from: MusicMan on May 11, 2011, 09:45:02 PM
Gosh, we are currently spending $400 million on a new courthouse
that we really did not need. Do you think we could have fixed the entire downtown for $400 million???
it is pretty tough to argue that we didn't need a new courthouse...have you been in the existinmg building? how about the overbooked courtrooms?
Do you think we needed to spend 400 million for one? and the project is not even finished. It probably will run more before it is complete.
I personally would rather have built something maybe vertical ,instead of taking up the land area this concrete monstrosity takes up. Or added to the existing Courthouse.. much like Clay County did with theirs. But I doubt many would buy into that idea, particularly for wanting it to be razed to make way for a convention center we also cannot afford at this point .
I wonder if you guys could condense this into a list that could be submitted as a Letter to the Editor. I'd love to send it to Mike Clark and see if he'd run it, perhaps even as an op-ed piece?
There are just some really great suggestions here. I'd love to see them pushed into the discussion.
That is a nice offer Abel. Timely to get this out now as well.
Anyone want to do the honors?
I know there are better writers than me on this site, lol!
If not I will be happy to do so.
Regards, Mark :)
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on May 11, 2011, 11:08:25 PM
To take it a step further --- how much could we have done if we had the money spent on major interchange and roadway expansion projects and invested in public infrastructure systems and amenities that add to our quality of life. Think about it - 9A, I-95/9A interchange, JTB expansion, I-10/I-95 interchange, Kernan/Beach overpasses, Cecil Commerce highways, the proposed Spaghetti Junction Overland Bridge project, etc - hundreds of millions, or more. Think about mass transit/light rail, world-class parks on the river where our chain link fences now stand, public/private partnerships to restore major downtown buildings, convention centers, and all of the private development that spawns from it.
The overpasses bother me the most. Not only could the money have been better spent on a transit system getting people to and from the beach communities, overpasses are the greatest neighborhood killers that I know of.
We needed a new court house yes, a 400 million one, that's where the debate comes in. Anyway time to move on from that since its nearing completion.
Quote from: marksjax on May 12, 2011, 12:37:56 AM
I wonder if you guys could condense this into a list that could be submitted as a Letter to the Editor. I'd love to send it to Mike Clark and see if he'd run it, perhaps even as an op-ed piece?
There are just some really great suggestions here. I'd love to see them pushed into the discussion.
That is a nice offer Abel. Timely to get this out now as well.
Anyone want to do the honors?
I know there are better writers than me on this site, lol!
If not I will be happy to do so.
Regards, Mark :)
I think it might carry more weight coming from you Mark... a business owner downtown.
BridgeTroll I'm in!
At the risk of being shunned by the city I will put something together but will include MJ in the letter and not lay claim to all these ideas as mine. Share the wealth (or burden, lol) with everyone on here. IF that is ok with everyone I will get started on this later today, Friday at the latest.
Mark :)
Quote from: marksjax on May 12, 2011, 09:48:44 AM
BridgeTroll I'm in!
At the risk of being shunned by the city I will put something together but will include MJ in the letter and not lay claim to all these ideas as mine. Share the wealth (or burden, lol) with everyone on here. IF that is ok with everyone I will get started on this later today, Friday at the latest.
Mark :)
I feel for you man. If a simple letter to the editor risks "shunning" by the powers that be then you guys and your patrons are in worse shape than we imagine. This city MUST listen to the small business owners and operators downtown. Perhaps you can send it to Abel for him to proof...
I think Mark started a great thread here but if an op-ed is going to the TU with the MetroJacksonville name I think Lake would be my vote to write it.
Yes I would agree with that too.
My post was from my specific point of view rather than the larger list that long term contributors here have been working on for years. For instance, light rail isn't one of my priorities to be honest.
So, if I send a letter it will be from myself with only my thoughts and not represent this thread and it members.
But I would welcome having my ideas included if one of the members here wishes to do the letter.
Regards, Mark
QuoteOther cities have successfully rebuilt downtowns.
Just so we are clear, what cities rebuilt themselves? Which ones compare to the ratio of citizens per square mile as we have inside Duval County as well? Jax is very different from other cities and counties. If it were so similar as others would have you believe, don't you think the politicians would have tried more solutions?
Just as the JTA article in the paper cried about Jax being so spread out, is part of the reason for the lack of solutions to resolve vacancies in downtown Jacksonville.
The boom of downtown (2000-2008), where we added The Peninsula, The Strand, the San Marco, were predicated on economic conditions being right, and the downtown overlay legislation of 2000. This plan is working, its just taking a breathier with the economy. When money is being lent out, we will see more development downtown.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 12, 2011, 10:22:25 AM
I think Mark started a great thread here but if an op-ed is going to the TU with the MetroJacksonville name I think Lake would be my vote to write it.
I would but I'm in Detroit until the 17th and my cell is my internet connection.
Mtrain, some cities with similar demographics that have rebuilt their downtowns include Nashville, Norfolk, Indianapolis, and Louisville. This downtown vibrancy thing isn't rocket science. We just make it a lot harder and more expensive than it has to be.
Quote from: Timkin on May 12, 2011, 12:23:02 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 11, 2011, 11:11:28 PM
Quote from: MusicMan on May 11, 2011, 09:45:02 PM
Gosh, we are currently spending $400 million on a new courthouse
that we really did not need. Do you think we could have fixed the entire downtown for $400 million???
it is pretty tough to argue that we didn't need a new courthouse...have you been in the existinmg building? how about the overbooked courtrooms?
Do you think we needed to spend 400 million for one? and the project is not even finished. It probably will run more before it is complete.
I personally would rather have built something maybe vertical ,instead of taking up the land area this concrete monstrosity takes up. Or added to the existing Courthouse.. much like Clay County did with theirs. But I doubt many would buy into that idea, particularly for wanting it to be razed to make way for a convention center we also cannot afford at this point .
could have renovated the existing courthouse and built a small annex to accommodate overcrowding for half the money spent on the new one, but then again look at all that Gate precast on the new courthouse - what is that I smell - the money pouring into the Peyton family pockets!
one of the big keys we've realized recently is that downtown needs to be activated with regularly scheduled events/festivals.
btw, the latest DVI newsletter said this:
QuoteDowntown Vision Inc. reports attendance was at near-record levels for its most recent events. The May 4 First Wednesday Art Walk equaled last year’s single-night record of 8,000 visitors Downtown and the “Movies in the Park†family film series brought 3,000 children and parents to Treaty Oak Park and the riverfront lawn at the Wyndham Hotel on the Southbank.
And this doesn't include the additional thousands who went to FunkFest and Rockville at Met Park this weekend....fact is, it works...all we need is more of these events and cluster as many as possible in the northbank core
oh yeah....what's that about nobody going downtown?
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 12, 2011, 02:37:05 PM
one of the big keys we've realized recently is that downtown needs to be activated with regularly scheduled events/festivals.
btw, the latest DVI newsletter said this:
QuoteDowntown Vision Inc. reports attendance was at near-record levels for its most recent events. The May 4 First Wednesday Art Walk equaled last year’s single-night record of 8,000 visitors Downtown and the “Movies in the Park†family film series brought 3,000 children and parents to Treaty Oak Park and the riverfront lawn at the Wyndham Hotel on the Southbank.
And this doesn't include the additional thousands who went to FunkFest and Rockville at Met Park this weekend....fact is, it works...all we need is more of these events and cluster as many as possible in the northbank core
oh yeah....what's that about nobody going downtown?
Yeah, people go downtown, but what do they do there? They drive to the [free] event, they hang out, and they leave.
ArtWalk is very successful. The movies in Treaty Oak Park are successful too. I definitely think they need more festival type events. But just getting people to go downtown for festivals isn't going to solve any of the other problems.
More ArtWalk type events would be great. Landlords willing to budge a little on rents for their empty spaces would be even better. The city easing up on parking tickets and sign laws would be fantastic. It's like trying to make a jigsaw puzzle with one piece.
Quote from: Bativac on May 12, 2011, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 12, 2011, 02:37:05 PM
one of the big keys we've realized recently is that downtown needs to be activated with regularly scheduled events/festivals.
btw, the latest DVI newsletter said this:
QuoteDowntown Vision Inc. reports attendance was at near-record levels for its most recent events. The May 4 First Wednesday Art Walk equaled last year’s single-night record of 8,000 visitors Downtown and the “Movies in the Park†family film series brought 3,000 children and parents to Treaty Oak Park and the riverfront lawn at the Wyndham Hotel on the Southbank.
And this doesn't include the additional thousands who went to FunkFest and Rockville at Met Park this weekend....fact is, it works...all we need is more of these events and cluster as many as possible in the northbank core
oh yeah....what's that about nobody going downtown?
Yeah, people go downtown, but what do they do there? They drive to the [free] event, they hang out, and they leave.
ArtWalk is very successful. The movies in Treaty Oak Park are successful too. I definitely think they need more festival type events. But just getting people to go downtown for festivals isn't going to solve any of the other problems.
More ArtWalk type events would be great. Landlords willing to budge a little on rents for their empty spaces would be even better. The city easing up on parking tickets and sign laws would be fantastic. It's like trying to make a jigsaw puzzle with one piece.
Agreed here. Everyone shows up for a few hours and then leaves, not much is reinvested into the businesses regularly enough. One Wednesday a month of crazy amounts of patrons isn't going to cut it. I'm a big fan of special events and festivals, but downtown needs to be a daily destination, too, with better access to groceries, shops, etc... not just bars!
you'll get no argument from me...but you have to start somewhere....most of the succesfull downtown turn-arounds have been started with special events and/or convention/tourism industry.....followed by restaurants and nightlife, residential, and finally retail.
I would push for Florida State College to put all of it's growing 4 years degree programs downtown with some student housing.
^^Fantastic idea, JeffreyS.
Residential should be our #1 focus! Seriously, in a city of 800,000+ and an region with 1.3 million +, i have no doubt that if there were 10K places to live downtown (affordable places) that you could fill them, even with transit, parking, and retail being issues.
With those 10K people, you now have a voice, and a catalyst for progress. You have a group of people are are vested in the improvement of downtown.
Give downtown a voice, and a lot of these issues will start to work themselves out.
While I dislike everything about Hogan, he is kind of correct in that downtown shouldnt be a hole that the city throws money down. The changes that are needed are in policy.
That would be great but I think most of FSCJ's class offerings are at South campus and with state budget cuts, there will be no renovations or building at FSCJ anytime soon.
Could we have utilized the Laura Street Trio plus the old Barnett Bank Building for a location of the new courthouse and facilities? They are for sale, cheap, and still vacant. I am guessing there is 200,000-300,000 square feet available in those combined structures, and the old Marble Bank would have made an awesome courtroom space. It seems a visionary leader would have , AT THE LEAST, put that on the table as an option. No question those structures could have been purchased and renovated for $150,000 million (or less), leaving a large overage for further downtown re-development.
Another wonderful Idea MM .. but no vision to move these buildings forward for anything.. Cameron Kuhn was the last one to actually do something with them and then his vision and works went belly up. If we had used the existing buildings we have , such as in the instance of the St James Building ..the ONE building they did save (actually I am sure there are a couple of others ) over the long haul, MILLIONS could have been saved by utilizing these great landmarks.
Quote from: MusicMan on May 12, 2011, 05:14:20 PM
Could we have utilized the Laura Street Trio plus the old Barnett Bank Building for a location of the new courthouse and facilities? They are for sale, cheap, and still vacant. I am guessing there is 200,000-300,000 square feet available in those combined structures, and the old Marble Bank would have made an awesome courtroom space. It seems a visionary leader would have , AT THE LEAST, put that on the table as an option. No question those structures could have been purchased and renovated for $150,000 million (or less), leaving a large overage for further downtown re-development.
Yes, yes, but The Explosion in a Pillar Factory, aka: PEYTON PLACE, would have never been built and Johnny wouldn't have his legacy project, and THAT'S something worth oh, $500 million?OCKLAWAHA
You must be referring to that hideous excuse of an over budget courthouse. What a waste.