QuoteThe Florida Times-Union
November 16, 2007
Town centers still just plans
By MATT GALNOR,
The Times-Union
Instead of regular old concrete sidewalks, there would be brick pavers.
Bland, towering lights would give way to antique-style poles dotted with globe-shaped bulbs.
And the patchwork of businesses would blend into a cohesive unit, harkening to decades past when neighborhoods had a main drag that was as much of an identity as it was a place to eat and shop.
That was the plan five years ago when Jacksonville city leaders started the Town Center initiative with $12 million and reams of wish lists.
Now, most of those plans are still, well, plans.
The town centers are the first of their kind in Jacksonville. They're designed to be neighborhood-driven, which entails numerous meetings among residents, business owners, city planners and consultants to compile a "vision plan" from the neighborhood.
Getting that vision from paper to the street - all within a fixed budget of $1 million per project - is taking time.
These aren't strip malls sprouting from undeveloped ground.
These are areas where the sidewalks are often tight against the weathered buildings.
Where bunches of wires hang amidst the tree canopy.
Where another month of torn up sidewalk can teeter a business into extinction.
Full Article:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/111607/met_218128848.shtml
They could probably save some money if they cut out the brick in a lot of these projects.
I think they are operating under the assumption that brick and fancy light poles are what will revitalize these areas.
Oh I get it, we passed this so the streetlights and shrubs in St. Nicholas will look just like the ones in Moncrief, which will look just like the ones in Fairfax or Fairfield... UNIQUE!
Ocklawaha
These Town Centers are very worthwhile IMO. I think they help reverse blight and give a sense of place to an otherwise non-descript strip. I'd be willing to bet that the city re-coops it's $1mm in 5-10 years through increased propertytaxes, sales taxes, etc.
Private money follows public money. I just wish the city could speed up the process. If the 5 year process could be reduce to 18 months there would be savings just from lower construction costs.
Ocklawaha has a good point about each one needing to be unique though.
Yes, they are worthwhile, but they could probably get off the snide a little faster by sticking to the basic essentials (lighting and maintenance) to stay within budget.
You can have just as much economic success with a regular concrete slab, limited landscaping and lighting. Doing such would help cut down on material costs and labor associated with installing the extra materials.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/rust_belt/detroit/Woodward-night.jpg)
Anyone seen any of these proposals hit the streets yet?
Brick is typically only 3-5% more than other exteriors, I sold brick for a few years, and my father sold it for about 20 years
How much is the labor for brick, as opposed to other exteriors?
Back when I was selling brick a good mason would cost about 300-400$/1000 brick. I am not sure what that is compared to stucco work. Stucco was cheaper, but most stucco work in the commercial industry is laid over concrete block. In the industry, stucco was cheapest, and stone was the most expensive. Brick was in the middle. Brick Structures tend to hold there beauty better than stucco also.....Now I think the salesman is coming out in me... ;D
Quote from: adamh0903 on April 04, 2008, 03:22:22 PM
Brick is typically only 3-5% more than other exteriors, I sold brick for a few years, and my father sold it for about 20 years
This must strictly be based on materials alone, because otherwise there would be a lot more brick structures, because 90% of the population prefers it.
My experience has been that brick is quite expensive relate to the alternatives.
For some reason thats a misconseption that the brick industry has never been able to overcome. The total cost "on the wall" for brick can sometimes be 5-8% more than vinyl, stucco or other exteriors. This really depends on the quality of brick mason you hire and how detailed the brick work is. The cost is really not THAT much more when you think about brick will never rot, dent or need painting. But when you are a track home builder 5-8% over 250 homes adds up, and when you are a commercial builder and you need to cut corners and cost, this is the easiest place to do it.
Quote from: Jason on April 04, 2008, 02:00:58 PM
Anyone seen any of these proposals hit the streets yet?
Park and King and it looks great. Five points also looks good with the pavers.
Quote from: adamh0903 on April 04, 2008, 05:01:17 PM
For some reason thats a misconseption that the brick industry has never been able to overcome. The total cost "on the wall" for brick can sometimes be 5-8% more than vinyl, stucco or other exteriors. This really depends on the quality of brick mason you hire and how detailed the brick work is. The cost is really not THAT much more when you think about brick will never rot, dent or need painting. But when you are a track home builder 5-8% over 250 homes adds up, and when you are a commercial builder and you need to cut corners and cost, this is the easiest place to do it.
Growing up in SC, in the '60's and '70's it seemed 70% or more of homes were built with brick. This was the case with houses in ALL income levels. Today, only the most expensive houses are built with brick.
Painting a house is quite expense, and it doesn't seem logical that anyone building-to-suit would pick wood over brick if the cost difference is that small. Vinyl has always fought a bad reputation for looking cheap, which in my opinion, it largely does. Again if the difference is that small, it would seem few people would choose the alternatives.
Wood houses look great I.E. Springfield but you go to a city with a historic district is brick or stone and no matter what the condition it can be revitalized so fast. As usual St. Louis is my point of refrence and the University City area is just full of tiny and large maintenance free brick and stone beautiful. I wish riverside had been constructed this way.
Quote from: vicupstate on April 04, 2008, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: adamh0903 on April 04, 2008, 05:01:17 PM
For some reason thats a misconseption that the brick industry has never been able to overcome. The total cost "on the wall" for brick can sometimes be 5-8% more than vinyl, stucco or other exteriors. This really depends on the quality of brick mason you hire and how detailed the brick work is. The cost is really not THAT much more when you think about brick will never rot, dent or need painting. But when you are a track home builder 5-8% over 250 homes adds up, and when you are a commercial builder and you need to cut corners and cost, this is the easiest place to do it.
Growing up in SC, in the '60's and '70's it seemed 70% or more of homes were built with brick. This was the case with houses in ALL income levels. Today, only the most expensive houses are built with brick.
Painting a house is quite expense, and it doesn't seem logical that anyone building-to-suit would pick wood over brick if the cost difference is that small. Vinyl has always fought a bad reputation for looking cheap, which in my opinion, it largely does. Again if the difference is that small, it would seem few people would choose the alternatives.
I think you see this because the majority of home buyers are people who buy tract homes and dont have to option of chosing exteriors. There are a few tract home builders that give you the option of all brick construction, www.adamshomes.com is one in Jacksonville, and the cost for these homes are right inline with other builders. On the other hand, people who own a peice of land, and want a house built on it, usually use a "custom home builder" and the majority of these homes are built with brick, unless the home owner wants something different. When i bought my home, it was in a subdivision, but the builder gave me the option of chosing exteriors and gave me a brick allowance of $262/1000. In that price range I had about 7 colors and styles to chose from.