Farewell to the Jacksonville Jewish Center
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1269991536_c3SFnbT-L.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville bids farewell to yet another significant, historic, urban Jacksonville property to fall victim to the wrecking ball: Springfield's former Jacksonville Jewish Center.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-may-farewell-to-the-jacksonville-jewish-center
depressing
Look at the thickness of the facade. I just can't understand for the accelerated demolition. Compare this to Annie Lytle PS4 and tell me the difference.
Not picking on you Timkin but just look at the shell of both structures.
Why such a quick demolition?? I thought the shell was still intact?
The walls were bowing due to loosing the inside structure. The city was concerned they could fall.
The city could have just spent the money to brace the walls from the outside instead of demo.
Possibly...but its pretty much a moot point now isn't it?
depressing photos- really hard to watch. You know I am curious about the decor. There is a place in Brooklyn NY that buys facades from fallen skyscrapers. Looks like they are just going to throw that away.
I think this is the fastest the city has ever acted on anything. They tore it down less than 10 days after it burned?? Who owns the property now, the city? If so, they need to clean up their mess and get the site ready for an RFP for development. That's a great location with a lot of potential.
I believe they started to tear it down the day it burned. They were working late into the night. Then it sat for a few days partially demolished.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 06, 2011, 09:59:06 AM
I think this is the fastest the city has ever acted on anything. They tore it down less than 10 days after it burned?? Who owns the property now, the city? If so, they need to clean up their mess and get the site ready for an RFP for development. That's a great location with a lot of potential.
The city does not own this property. It is owned by a private company. With a huge lien on the property now..
Sickening.
I drove by after work right when they started the demo. It was bowing in something fierce. I'm not sure it would have been practical or even beneficial to properly secure the structure in the condition the fire left the building in.
The real issue is, how did the fire happen and what can we do to ensure historic structures do not continue to be burned down in the historic district?
Other city's have used buildings like this one and the others we have throughout urban core as basis for revitalization. City leaders gave owners a very small time period (3-6 months?) to begin rehab and demanded a strong completion date from the owners when the building/s would be ready to be occupied.
If the owners didn't act or respond the building/s would then taken by a very swift legal action and the city would sell for very little ($100) or give the buildings to developers that were willing to complete the tasks above bringing much needed vibrancy to their city core. Just off the top my head I know that NY, Baltimore, and DC have used this method in the past.
Where the hell are our leaders?
how did the fire occur??
still under investigation by fire marshal
Annie will probably end up the same way, unfortunately. This is so sad. It was a beautiful building. It is curious to me, that some of the features could not/would not be spared. makes absolutely no sense. In some of Dan's pictures, it shows pieces of ornate concrete ( I would loved to have had one of those) that probably went into a landfill.
Burkhalter is supposed to salvage pieces.. even with the building destroyed , there are pieces of the exterior that could have been spared.. Not even sure the entire building had to be destroyed. Oh well. Spilled milk now. I certainly hope Annie Lytle does not end up at the same fate, but every day it seems to be pointing more and more to that.
FS4 is not far behind. No one seems to care of have the money to care.
Quote from: Timkin on May 06, 2011, 01:07:15 PM
Annie will probably end up the same way, unfortunately. This is so sad. It was a beautiful building. It is curous to me, that some of the features could not/would not be spared. makes absolutely no sense. In some of Dan's pictures, it shows pieces of ornate concrete ( I would loved to have had one of those) that probably went into a landfill.
Burkhalter is supposed to salvage pieces.. even with the building destroyed , there are pieces of the exterior that could have been spared.. Not even sure the entire building had to be destroyed. Oh well. Spilled milk now. I certainly hope Annie Lytle does not end up at the same fate, but every day it seems to be pointing more and more to that.
There is information about the salvage on spars blog. I do not think much will be saved.
^ and that my friends is asinine.
completely fricken ridiculous.
unacceptable.
i too agree that nothing will be saved.
it is my hope that guerrilla salvagers from the hood salvaged for retention in Spfld.
What happened to the big steel support beams. I'm sure they could be sold for some hefty cash...was the building yanked down immediately just so someone could cash in on the steel? Just curious...
Did SPAR try to save this at all? It seems 3rd and Silver would be in their jurisdiction or very close...
The building had an extensive fire a couple weeks ago, and that coupled with alot of water put into it to put the fire out, caused the building to begin collapsing. It pretty much had to be demolished.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 06, 2011, 04:32:21 PM
FS4 is not far behind. No one seems to care of have the money to care.
I am sure you will be there doing a jig of glee the day that happens , wont you M-train? And when it does , make sure you do not post another posting directed at me , please. Your jabs, although endured for far too long , are getting really really old.
Quote from: johnnyroadglide on May 06, 2011, 10:35:48 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 06, 2011, 09:59:06 AM
I think this is the fastest the city has ever acted on anything. They tore it down less than 10 days after it burned?? Who owns the property now, the city? If so, they need to clean up their mess and get the site ready for an RFP for development. That's a great location with a lot of potential.
The city does not own this property. It is owned by a private company. With a huge lien on the property now..
It was also insured.... :o
From the spar blog http://sparcouncil.org/spar-blog/ (http://sparcouncil.org/spar-blog/)
QuoteFormer Historic Jewish Center
There are two stone panels with menorahs, one stone panel with Ten Commandment scrolls, the architectural details on the facade and the cornerstone which Burkhalter (contractor for demolition) has been attempting to salvage. It was their intent to cushion the fall of the large decorated stones and panels; unfortunately it doesn’t appear that they were successful. The owner has stated that the size and weight of panels was too much to handle manually, but they were receptive to HPC and SPAR’s requests (and I’m sure calls from many residents and friends of Springfield) to salvage what they can. They will bring all architectural details â€" including pieces â€" to their business for HPC and SPAR to consider purchase.
The SPAR office has received calls from past and current members of the Jacksonville Jewish Center offering to donate towards the saving of architectural details, and we’ll provide information as we have it.
I don't see where Burkhalter salvaged anything at all. It's so sad what happened, a true loss to the historic district
they did not that I can tell
^ I repeat. Absolutely unacceptable.
Quote from: Springfielder on May 07, 2011, 06:39:23 AM
Quote from: johnnyroadglide on May 06, 2011, 10:35:48 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 06, 2011, 09:59:06 AM
I think this is the fastest the city has ever acted on anything. They tore it down less than 10 days after it burned?? Who owns the property now, the city? If so, they need to clean up their mess and get the site ready for an RFP for development. That's a great location with a lot of potential.
The city does not own this property. It is owned by a private company. With a huge lien on the property now..
It was also insured.... :o
Typical city mentality.. I mean, I sort of get that it was very suddenly structurally unstable ,but I do not see any good reason some parts of it were not salvaged. Just makes zero sense.
It is almost as if it is a deliberate motive in this city to mow down anything that is historic or important and replace it with a dirt lot or a strip mall .
Quote from: Timkin on May 07, 2011, 11:52:58 AM
Quote from: Springfielder on May 07, 2011, 06:39:23 AM
Quote from: johnnyroadglide on May 06, 2011, 10:35:48 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 06, 2011, 09:59:06 AM
I think this is the fastest the city has ever acted on anything. They tore it down less than 10 days after it burned?? Who owns the property now, the city? If so, they need to clean up their mess and get the site ready for an RFP for development. That's a great location with a lot of potential.
The city does not own this property. It is owned by a private company. With a huge lien on the property now..
It was also insured.... :o
Typical city mentality.. I mean, I sort of get that it was very suddenly structurally unstable ,but I do not see any good reason some parts of it were not salvaged. Just makes zero sense.
It is almost as if it is a deliberate motive in this city to mow down anything that is historic or important and replace it with a dirt lot or a strip mall .
My mom told me once about her aunt, who was born in the early 1900s. They lived on a huge piece of property in Georgia and had a 100+ year old home, in good shape. When mom was in her 20s, her aunts were so excited - they were finally tearing down "that old place" and building a state-of-the-art 1970s era ranch style home!
That's the mentality I think of when I think about Jacksonville. Get rid of this "old stuff" and get it out of here. Although I know this building was seriously unsound after the fire, it's still a shame that every piece of it seems to be headed for the dump. The bigger shame is that nobody in town cares, for the most part.
Plenty of people care and would see it spared.. The BOZOS within the city are ones that do not care.... If we do not clean house within the functions of the city government, this trend will ,sadly, continue :(
And did the "neighborhood" organization, SPAR, champion for salvage?
anyone want to place some bets on this? I am betting not
Quote from: Bativac on May 07, 2011, 12:01:20 PM
Quote from: Timkin on May 07, 2011, 11:52:58 AM
Quote from: Springfielder on May 07, 2011, 06:39:23 AM
Quote from: johnnyroadglide on May 06, 2011, 10:35:48 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 06, 2011, 09:59:06 AM
I think this is the fastest the city has ever acted on anything. They tore it down less than 10 days after it burned?? Who owns the property now, the city? If so, they need to clean up their mess and get the site ready for an RFP for development. That's a great location with a lot of potential.
The city does not own this property. It is owned by a private company. With a huge lien on the property now..
It was also insured.... :o
Typical city mentality.. I mean, I sort of get that it was very suddenly structurally unstable ,but I do not see any good reason some parts of it were not salvaged. Just makes zero sense.
It is almost as if it is a deliberate motive in this city to mow down anything that is historic or important and replace it with a dirt lot or a strip mall .
My mom told me once about her aunt, who was born in the early 1900s. They lived on a huge piece of property in Georgia and had a 100+ year old home, in good shape. When mom was in her 20s, her aunts were so excited - they were finally tearing down "that old place" and building a state-of-the-art 1970s era ranch style home!
That's the mentality I think of when I think about Jacksonville. Get rid of this "old stuff" and get it out of here. Although I know this building was seriously unsound after the fire, it's still a shame that every piece of it seems to be headed for the dump. The bigger shame is that nobody in town cares, for the most part.
The city of Jacksonville has zero, and I mean zero, respect for their history. It's so obvious looking back & up to this point. They probably couldn't wait to knock this building down & were likely just looking for an excuse. Same as every other "old" structure. They've still got the 60s & 70s mentality of "new is better".
It's a poisonous way to look at things these days & is the reason why Jax is so behind the times. The city planners are completely out of touch. Completely. They're probably all old men who still dream of that suburban home with the white picket fence & the wife at home letting an apple pie cool on the windowsill.
Quote from: iloveionia on May 07, 2011, 12:45:45 PM
And did the "neighborhood" organization, SPAR, champion for salvage?
Do they ever?? Boy, to be a "preservation" group, you never hear a peep from them regarding these things. But hey, if you wanna know about a block party or what some national publication said about urban living (that has nothing to do with Jax), then they're all over it.
They're useless.
+1
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1273058597_GgLZvCw-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1269948341_28ntFwB-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1273046607_2gf7Lqw-M.jpg)
It's pretty clear from the photos that there were some worthwhile and salvageable architectural details on this building. If nothing else, I would think members of the congregation would have liked to have had a chance to pick through some of these "pieces" to save some mementos of their past. I see parts of old buildings incorporated into new structures or locations all the time. Just look at the Heard National Bank/Florida Title Building columns saved and used at the Times Union Center.
Once again, a total lack of vision and creativity. Typical Jax.
Is there an organization other than SPAR that can be contacted about saving some of the material from the building? It seems that at the very least some of the brick could be salvaged for neighborhood projects. I know that its been done a bit already on the down low, but it would be nice if something could be organized so that the material could be stored someplace to be used for upcoming projects.
Seems like the Library downtown had some pieces incorporated into its decor?
If the whole building is just going to a landfill, why can't anyone just help themselves?
Quote from: Timkin on May 07, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
Seems like the Library downtown had some pieces incorporated into its decor?
If the whole building is just going to a landfill, why can't anyone just help themselves?
I had the same question. Can't we just go load up the pickup with a couple cool pieces of an old building?
Guess as long as you did not get caught don't see why not.. assuming there is anything left
The facade of this building should (and could) have been saved.
Typically, when the City of Jacksonville hires a demolition contractor that contractor has the right to any materials resulting from the demolition. The City could always revise their contract to require that the demolition contractor salvage certain elements of a building but obviously that was not done in this case - I have seen reports published (by SPAR) that Burkhalter Wrecking (the demolition contractor in this case) will be offering materials from the Jewish Center for sale.
As you can see from the photos, the architectural details have been painstakingly inventoried and preserved so I'm sure anything that goes missing will be noticed immediately...
Duly noted :)
Just drove past and the designs above the doors are now gone.
Danno are there any of the cool pieces displayed in Dan's Pictures , laying around? just curious.
DIdn't have a good look as I was unable to get out of the car but I didn't see them. Either they were broken up or they are gone.
Drove by it about an hour ago.. there is nothing left to save, except maybe the Wrought Iron gate to the left of the building. Was hoping to see some piece we could rescue. No such luck.. Even the Lamp posts near the walkways are being destroyed. Just dumb.
Go to the source, right?
Over the weekend I called SPAR, left a message, and received a return response via email as I requested. I got nothing, but the same old regurgatated SPAR weekly email crap. The fire was 2 weeks ago for Christ's sake.
Today I called Burkhalter's, the company (or one of them) demolitioning. Technically, once the building, house, whatever, is in the contractor's hands, the property (building) is property of the company to do what they want. i.e. they basically own it to a certain degree, meaning if they chose to salvage, it is theirs to do with what they wish. The owner was not available to speak and I have not received a return call (today anyway,) but the person who answered said some items were saved, some on the cornerstones she said, but she did not have a complete inventory. When I receive a return call, I will post. I was told that in some cases when the "picked up" the pieces they were trying to save, they crumbled.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Catch my drift?
I believe the Springfield fires are predominately intentional. Arson. A way to weed out the "bad."
Well I did notice that the cornerstone is still intact on the building (lower RH corner of what was the front) .. STILL there was plenty of the building's features that could and should have been saved. Since Burkhalters does sell salvaged items it seems they could have taken greater care to save pieces.. If some were saved , great, but the Pics up on this thread do not depict much being saved. Seems more like they were paid mega bucks to get the building down, and FAST... I wonder how long before the 2 buildings beside it, and the Castle house on the corner go? BTW today was the first time I ever actually saw the Castle house up close.. that is a crying shame that it is being left to decay like it is.. I would be willing to bet within a year ,the house , and the 2 adjacent buildings will be gone.. It is just what Jacksonville does.
Was never in the Jewish Center building, but it could not have been in too bad of shape , prior to being torched ( I presume this must be what happened) .
I'm with ya Timkin.
In speaking with another demolition contractor, it does cost $$ to salavage (got to pay your crew to go in and salvage,) and I was told that with demoliton bids coming in at rock bottom, AND salvage not selling like it used to, it just is not financially worth it.
That said, there should be an option for the neighborhood, the former Jewish Center, current Jewish community, etc. to pay for the salvage. Leaving behind pieces is not acceptable. I read in the SPAR weekly email that they had been contacted by adults who enjoyed the Jewish Center as kids and were very concerned and interested in salvage. Clearly that didn't mean shit.
I know it has happened (it has to have,) but I hope pieces taken will be put to good use and not discarded in a landfill.
The whole thing really pisses me off. Sure wish I was in Jax right now.
Kudos to all those guerrilla salvagers.
There have been numerous vehicles - cargo vans, work trucks, even the trunk of a luxury sedan last night - that have been spotted loading up on various evenings and weekends when workers were not present. So there are a number of pieces floating around. Most seemed to be focused on walking away with free bricks - the religious symbols and other facade pieces were rather heavy and I can't imagine anyone being able to move them without some equipment.
Abel ..some of the facade pieces that I saw were broken so badly , nobody would probably want them.. good to know some collected some bricks.. I would have picked something , but there was a worker present there , and I did not want to chance getting in trouble. A trim piece of the top of a column was fairly intact and in front of one of the front doors, but again , did not want to take a chance. Glad someone scalped some pieces of it.. Most of it ended up most likely at a dump somewhere. :(
FYI, I never got a return call from Burkhalter's in regards to the salvage. No new information from SPAR either.
Not shocking at all
How can we stand living here?