Metro Jacksonville

Community => Transportation, Mass Transit & Infrastructure => Topic started by: Ocklawaha on November 15, 2007, 07:14:09 PM

Title: Worst of the WORST, yet it's NOT JTA!
Post by: Ocklawaha on November 15, 2007, 07:14:09 PM
Bet this raises some eyes down on Myrtle Avenue! For those of us that preach and teach Rail, Light Rail, Skyway's  and other forms of mass transit, it might seem like JTA is the worst of the worst. Not even close y'all. Here are two stories and two Cities that add a whole new dimension to "STUPID!" My apology's to your Yankees out there, neither one of these places is in the South either!

CINCINNATI:

(http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/transeng/images/transeng_img7184.jpg)
(http://illicitohio.illicitohio.com/subway/sub001.jpg)
(http://ggth.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/subwayold3.jpg)
(http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway-c7.jpg)
(http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/subway-p11.jpg)

Well, well, The Queen City of the Ohio River, home of the NFL Bengals (Jaguar feed) and Proctor and Gamble. Cincinnati, was once the Southern anchor of an extensive Midwest interurban railroad system, that allowed high speed electric train travel between EVERY major City in the region without the cinders. The Cincinnati and Lake Erie Railroad (the interurban that TWICE beat an airplane in a race) ran between Cleveland, and Cincinnati. So did the old Lake Erie and Ohio Canal Company. As people turned to the interurban's and highways for travel and freight shipments, the canal was abandoned. The nasty soup from Lake Erie was left to seep into the Queen City and soon the people became alarmed at the hazard of the old canal. A plan was hatched and in 1916 the voters approved a $6 Million dollar bond issue to build a subway in the former canal channels downtown. World War I, caused the project to lapse, and by the time construction resumed in the 1920's the bonds were out of control. Still Cincinnati, largely finished the subway downtown. The broad gauge streetcars would get to have their own exclusive right-of-way above ground. The standard gauge interurban's would run as electric subways downtown. Cincinnati Car Company (a major traction builder) even came up with special designs. Most of the downtown route was in tunnel, though some was elevated on massive concrete El structures... Sadly post war inflation and financial wreck of the great interurban railroads came on too quickly to effect any salvation. A revolution in City government, by the "NEW CHARTER" party, used the charge that the City had extended credit to a private railroad in building the Subway. They enjoyed a landslide election and the great subway project ground to a halt. It is said no track was ever laid in the tunnels or El portions, yet photos show some rail, either way it was never used. Highways ate up other pieces of above ground routes. From time to time, there is talk of bringing the Subway out of the dark and using it for Light Rail or BRT of some sort. But the City has cut up the old Subway and large parts of it are now I-75. Alas the people have voted again, this time killing any attempt to use the pre-built metro as a metro! Cincinnati sleeps, dead to Transit innovation.

ROCHESTER:

(http://www.vintageviews.org/vv-tl/maps/maps/Subway%20Map.JPG)
(http://www.urbanadventure.org/main/2004trip/dcp21371.jpg)
(http://www.opacity.us/images/db/38/0000002347.jpg)
(http://www.railcitymuseum.com/RCHM_v.11.29/Rochester_Transit_Corporation/IMAG023.JPG)
(http://www.railroad.net/articles/railfanning/rochestersubway/media/rsb_proposed_map.gif)

Rochester, New York, a similar tale. Again a canal of little use cut through the downtown in a massive aqueduct. It crossed the Genesee River as the lower floor of the massive Broad Street Bridge. The old Erie Canal mostly dead as the City rerouted it to the South of downtown. Just after World War I, the voters approved a plan for the Rochester Subway System. Using the former canal's and aqueduct channels the subway was almost ready made! $1.5 Million dollars in construction started in May of 1922, and the first train rolled on September 2, 1927. The passengers rode in refurbished interurban cars built (this is weird) by The Cincinnati Car Company! The system served 23 Stations and ran for 29 years, living past the end of streetcars above in 1941. While the downtown portion was underground a good portion was above ground. A beautiful last ditch effort, by Rochester Commerce Commissioner, Harold MacFarlin, in 1955, failed to gain enough support to save the day. The Rochester Subway ran it's last passenger interurban train, on June 30, 1956. Several plans have been extended to revive the old Subway Lines, but nothing but freight moved over it between 1956 and 1985. Finally even that went another route and the Subway was boarded up for good. Today, talk, plans, and more plans are offered up...Rochester, is now about rebuilding it's streetcar system. Someone has to wonder why they didn't plan it where the tracks and stations are already in place...just a few feet below the surface!

(http://static.flickr.com/104/300593967_ce135e3c75_m.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Jacksonville_Skyway_stub.jpg/800px-Jacksonville_Skyway_stub.jpg)
Stupid! You Bet! Worst of the worst, and it's not even close to JTA! The moral of the story is, we "could" just abandon the unfinished Skyway right where it is, ignore the railroads in Jacksonville that are already in place,  and go with more new highways or even BRT... But what would that make us?

Ocklawaha
Title: Re: Worst of the WORST, yet it's NOT JTA!
Post by: thelakelander on November 15, 2007, 09:31:05 PM
I think the Great Depression might have had something to do with Cincinnati's subway construction stopping and the drying up of the industrial base in the mid 20th century didn't help get things back on track.  Cincy is also known as one of the most conservative big cities in the Midwest, so its not a suprise that voters voted down raising their taxes to finish the subway a few years back.  Today, the old tunnels are popular spots for urban exploring and guided walking tours.  Anyway, Cincy does appear to be moving forward with an above ground starter light rail line called the "Oasis" line from Milford to the downtown riverfront.

I never knew about Rochester's subway.  That's something I'll definately check out this summer, when I go up to explore the urban areas (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany) of Upstate New York. 
Title: Re: Worst of the WORST, yet it's NOT JTA!
Post by: Ocklawaha on November 15, 2007, 09:48:16 PM
QuoteI think the Great Depression might have had something to do with Cincinnati's subway construction stopping and the drying up of the industrial base in the mid 20th century didn't help get things back on track.

It was DOA by the depression, but the financial failure of the banks and the industrial base didn't help get it back on track.

Ocklawaha