Who: Alvin Brown vs. Mike Hogan
When: Monday, April 25, 2011
Time: 8pm
Where/TV: Channel 4
QuoteJACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The two men who want to be the next mayor of Jacksonville will meet Monday evening in their only televised debate and one of only four joint appearances before next month's election.
Democrat Alvin Brown and Republican Mike Hogan have repeatedly said they are opposed to tax increases, but have not spelled out specific plans for dealing with the city's $60 million budget deficit.
Pension reform, unemployment and downtown development are other issues expected to come up during the debate, which will air live at 8 p.m. on Channel 4. Tom Wills will moderate the forum, with questions from Channel 4's Rob Sweeting and Jim Piggott and WOKV's Roxy Tyler.
http://www.news4jax.com/politics/27660591/detail.html
I'll be watching!
I'l be watching as well. less than two hours.
Gonna have to DVR it.
Here we go....
Its on. If you can't get in front of a tv set, its on the radio. 106.9FM and 690AM.
Both guys seem pretty nervous with their opening statements. Brown stumbled during some points in his statement and Hogan is sweating bullets.
What it is that you fear the most if your opponent wins?
Hogan on Brown: Hogan takes the high road. Said he will be Brown's chief supporter if he wins.
Brown on Hogan: Claimed Hogan cut education funding in the millions when he was on the Legislature.
I dislike those kind of "What don't you like about the other candidate" kind of questions. These kind of questions turn politics away from the issues and focus more on personalities.
To Brown, why did you change your position on having a DDA?
Brown claims he didn't change his position.
Hogan is sweating like Nixon. He's explaining his change of heart on how important he considers our downtown right now.
downtown is a key neighborhood just like all of the other neighborhoods? my head is spinning.
Asked if Hogan has changed his position on Downtown?
Hogan states he has not changed his position. It is a key neighborhood like all neighborhoods. However, it is unique and we will focus there. However, he is not willing to make wasteful investments on downtown. Believes we can fix downtown by cleaning it up.
To Hogan: How will you stand up to the leaders of your party, if necessary?
Hogan claims he will continue to fight all where necessary.
To Brown: If you are elected, how will you help Obama in 2012?
Brown: This election is about Jacksonville. Not Obama.
To Hogan: How has the tax collector's office prepared you to be mayor?
Hogan: First hand knowledge of how much revenue has flowed through his office. Says doesn't have a revenue problem. It has a spending problem. Running tax collectors office is like running the city to a degree.
To Brown: How much do you make a JU?
Brown: $20k. Believes his experience will help the city benefit in forming public/private partnerships.
^^I know right! i want to see them duke it out and exchange ideas.
Wow, commercials. Didn't expect these.
To Hogan: How will you fix the pension problem?
Hogan: Said he will not raise taxes to fund pension. Said it would take hours to discuss.
What about free pensions for city council members?
Hogan: COJ has no jurisdiction over city council pension.
Same questions to Brown:
Brown: first we'll get financial house in order. Will cut salary by 20%, not take pension and will cut appointee positions. Will make Audrey Moran, Peter Rummell, Nat Glover, etc. key players in fixing city finances. Looking into technology, contract procurement and another department (i missed it) to help reduce budget strain on city. Also said Hogan has taken 16 salary increases while working as an elected official.
Do you support the bill that all city employees must live in Duval County?
Brown: Something to consider. However, we should make sure it doesn't hurt Jax's ability to get top talent. Said he would suggest taking it to voters.
Hogan: Likes the idea.
What are you willing to do to attract jobs?
Hogan: 1. make calls for businesses to come to Jax. Said he used to work as a salesman for Southern Bell. 2. Plans on moving JEDC into mayor's office. Will cut $62 million out of budget and use incentives if necessary.
Brown: 1. forge public/private partnership with Jaxport. Will secure $1.5 billion for port development to bring 35k jobs to Jax. 2. Will focus on small businesses. Part of this includes making sure we address our education system. ran out of time.
I love Alvin, but he has got to stop saying "make sure." If I started a drinking game, I would be in a bad way about right now!
What will you do help Jax's cruise industry?
Brown: Be chief marketer for city.
Hogan: Will pour all of our resources into helping Jaxport's issues. Cruise and shipping in general. Said there are 20k jobs for the taking.
What would you tell neighborhoods looking for help?
Hogan: Public safety, streets/highways/drainage & parks are most important issues. Will pay attention to all neighborhoods.
How would you spread equally across city?
Hogan: Priorities. But first fund core needs.
Brown: Must look at neighborhoods that are declining. Should be higher priority. This area is his background. Will take a holistic approach to issue. Wants every resident in this city to feel safe in their own home.
How would you hold city employees accountable to question above: Brown says he will get the employees out of the office and into the streets.
Will you roll back current taxes?
Brown: No. Wants to focus on future. Balance budget and live within our means. Must have people working for city who will be held accountable. Target growth industries, aviation, health, logistics, etc. Take advantage of new market tax credits.
Hogan: Will be difficult. Will make sure that we don't spend current funds wastefully. However, would attact the JEA franchise fee if possible.
The question used San Marco as an example of getting more maintenance for their town center than Arlington. What they apparently didn't realize is that the San Marco Merchant's Association pays for the cleaning of the sidewalks and maintenance of the landscaping in the Square - not the city.
Convention Center. Where should it be built and with what money?
Hogan: Money is not there, although we need one. Would be interested in private sector offers. This is not a high priority.
Brown: Focus on a public/private partnership. Take holistic approach because DT is key to our economic future. Like Hogan, looking for private sector involvement.
View on privatizing certain government operations?
Brown: Wants to focus on what is effective and efficient. Would put together team to be well informed on best moves to make.
Hogan: Worked on this in 91/92 as city council chairman. Led to contract with SMG. Will look at ROI for city. Areas for privatization include IT and motor pool.
Will you stand up to local pressures to reduce funding for public libraries?
Hogan: Made pledge that he will not raise taxes. Will make sure that city will live within its needs. Public safety, streets/drainage and parks are top priorities. Has no intention of closing libraries. However, is not sure right now where potential adjustments would come. Would close library before fire station.
Brown: Library is fabric of our community. Will do everything humanly possible to keep libraries open. Key to education and speaks to who we are as a community.
What steps would you take to prevent violence in our city, such as the recent shooting at Grand Park?
Brown: Must bring city together to focus on distressed neighborhoods. Wants to focus on prevention. After school programs, jobs for young people. Believes when you empower young people with opportunity comes responsibility. Believes in community policing, adopt a park, etc.
Hogan: Sheriff is convinced that crime has been reduced in this community. Believes communities have become engaged. Will focus on making sure that JSO has the right resources and will work with neighborhoods on their needs.
Hogan: we can't legislate matters of the heart!
Really?
What steps would you take as mayor to repeal the city's racial issues?
Hogan: We come a long way and have a way to go. As mayor will not tolerate it and will lead by example. Administration will be diverse. Will be a leader.
Brown: Wants to be the mayor for everyone. Administration will be diverse. Will work with not-for-profit agencies and all stakeholders to bring people together.
Will you accept opportunites for more televised debates?
Brown: Yes. Would love to do another televised debate.
Hogan: Enjoys exchaning thoughts in public. Communication with the public is his passion. Will focus on hitting the ground and talking to public in person.
So is this a no to participating in additional televised debates?
Hogan: Yes. His schedule is already full, so no more televised debates.
The debate is basically over. To be honest, this wasn't really a debate. It was a timed Q&A session.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 25, 2011, 08:54:56 PM
The debate is basically over. To be honest, this wasn't really a debate. It was a timed Q&A session.
Yeah, it was really boring. I was hoping for some back-and-forth but that was just boring. Really boring. :(
yes. boring.
Brown tried a couple of times to get into it. But yeah, it was the most boring and least useful debate of the campaign season. Which is sad since it was also probably the most important.
zzzzzzz...wha? is it over?
after watching that I miss Audrey even more!
I think Alvin said her name 5 or 6 times. Maybe he misses her, too?? ;)
So how do you guys interpret it? Think Hogan gained any advantage? or Brown?
I think they were both duds. Very flat not inspiring.
That is how its coming off to me, unfortunately
QuoteBrown tried a couple of times to get into it. But yeah, it was the most boring and least useful debate of the campaign season. Which is sad since it was also probably the most important.
If Brown wants to win, he will need to stir the pot. Time is running out, we are almost into May.....
Quote from: thelakelander on April 25, 2011, 08:54:56 PM
The debate is basically over. To be honest, this wasn't really a debate. It was a timed Q&A session.
Either one of the candidates could've done more to 'get into it,' as it were.
Shame on the "moderator" (inquisitor?) and panel for not doing more to make it debate-like.
The format and rules determine to a great degree how much the candidates can engage each other. For instance, when the candidates are able to ask each other questions, that allows for pointed questions and for weaknesses to be exposed.
Also, allowing follow-up questions or repbuttals make it harder to side step.
I think if Brown could have started up a little back and forth, it would have knocked Hogan off his game and it would have exposed the shortcomings of Hogan's platform. As it was, Hogan was able to just recite his prepared responses. It wasn't until the last question that Hogan looked uncomfortable at all.
Also, Alvin had a lot of great points, but he wasn't able to fill his time with anecdotal stories like Hogan. As such, he was forced to repeat a lot of those points to the extent that it looked like he was using them as a crutch. He said 'take a holistic approach', 'it's not our money, it's the taxpayers money', and 'Return on Investment' like 4 times each. Alvin did a great job, but he wasn't able to make Hogan look as bad as he could have. Hogan escaped from this debate, but barely.
Quote"So what is my vision for Jacksonville?" Hogan said. "Securing our financial future through fiscal restraint and four years of demonstrated respect by just how hard you, the taxpayer, works to provide for your family."
Hogan's basically saying the best way for us to improve is to take a 4 year period of stagnation. Heaven help us if he gets elected.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 26, 2011, 09:43:08 AM
Hogan's basically saying the best way for us to improve is to take a 4 year period of stagnation. Heaven help us if he gets elected.
Considering that this would be on top of the last 8 years of stagnation, while our rival cities have been moving forward... Jacksonville is going to be a going-nowhere relic by 2015, if we're not already. I'm so frustrated with this election.
I agree! Stir the pot Mr. Brown!
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 26, 2011, 08:32:22 AM
QuoteBrown tried a couple of times to get into it. But yeah, it was the most boring and least useful debate of the campaign season. Which is sad since it was also probably the most important.
If Brown wants to win, he will need to stir the pot. Time is running out, we are almost into May.....
It's not really in Alvin's nature to stir the pot. He's affable and really a nice guy. I got the sense early on from him that he wouldn't put a negative spin on Mr. Hogan or his proposed policies. He'll highlight differences, but he's just not an attack-dog type of person.
Hogan is much the same. But Hogan has people in the media and elsewhere whispering or shouting attacks on Brown. So, those of us who support Alvin have to be willing to take that fight up for him. I don't think you'd ever hear Alvin say "if you like Rick Scott, you'll love Mike Hogan." But I sure will.
Well lets Hope Hogan's approach of whispering and shouting attacks on Brown has much the same effect that Mullaney's did on Audrey Moran.. He hardly got any votes.. Serves him right. If he was a personal friend of her's at one time, If I were her, I would reconsider that friendship.
I actually Hope Brown sticks to clean tactics .. that might be to his advantage. but make Hogan squirm any way possible without being outright nasty.
I don't necessarily mean that he (Brown) needs to fight, but to change his strategy. The thing that really bothers me (and I do believe this is a sly strategy) is Hogan's -do nothing- approach that people are so fond of. It is like a boxer who gets a few good shots in and just runs away from his opponent not letting them get a hit for the rest of the fight. I know Brown is a nice guy, but if he wants to win, something in his strategy has to change... and I am saying this for someone who wants Brown to win. I mean if we are to say they are both nice guys then fine, but it does not mean they are going to be a good mayor for this city. Hogan's strategy has proved to me he is a nice guy, but would also be a spineless mayor puke of a mayor. If Brown is nice then fine, but I want to know he is the powerhouse we have all been waiting for!
The rules of this debate were no doubt crafted specifically to entice Hogan's participation. He knows his own weakness is that he can't open his trap for 2 minutes without saying something stupefyingly embrassing, like how he wants to bomb abortion clinics. No doubt he insisted on these rules that didn't allow pointed questions by the opposing candidate, or else he wouldn't have participated at all. Hogan's camp made sure this was all we were going to get.
As a side note, why are so many people helping Hogan in covering up the fact that he's a racist redneck? They identify?
Concur JC.. I pray somehow ,someway he prevails on this, if for no other reason , watching the GOB networks jaws crash to the ground.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 26, 2011, 10:22:23 AM
The rules of this debate were no doubt crafted specifically to entice Hogan's participation. He knows his own weakness is that he can't open his trap for 2 minutes without saying something stupefyingly embrassing, like how he wants to bomb abortion clinics. No doubt he insisted on these rules that didn't allow pointed questions by the opposing candidate, or else he wouldn't have participated at all.
I honestly hope that statement , whether kidding or not bites him in the ass ...
Quote from: Jimmy on April 26, 2011, 09:46:53 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 26, 2011, 09:43:08 AM
Hogan's basically saying the best way for us to improve is to take a 4 year period of stagnation. Heaven help us if he gets elected.
Considering that this would be on top of the last 8 years of stagnation, while our rival cities have been moving forward... Jacksonville is going to be a going-nowhere relic by 2015, if we're not already. I'm so frustrated with this election.
I feel your pain, and spot on. If Hogan wins while Moran was the alternative, it adds weight to the theory that Jacksonville is a diamond in the rough that wants to be coal.
I was impressed that Hogan at least seems interested in port expansion. If he wins and accomplishes that expansion by 2014 to accommodate the larger ships, I might go easier on him as a politician. However, he really needs to show DT a little tlc. He did an about face on a few issues, that worries me. He may only be saying what people want to hear. Or maybe it will blow up in his face, causing him to lose votes. Let's face it, unfortunately, most of the city doesn't share the same views as we have here on this forum.
Saying what people want to hear might win him one election. I can only hope in the end the majority will go with Brown. Of the two , I still am most impressed with him.
QuoteHowever, he really needs to show DT a little tlc.
Why? Because DT features 2000 residents as compared with the 800,000+ others in outlying areas? Again, why do people who go to SJTC really need to make DT an issue?
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 28, 2011, 12:10:54 PM
QuoteHowever, he really needs to show DT a little tlc.
Why? Because DT features 2000 residents as compared with the 800,000+ others in outlying areas? Again, why do people who go to SJTC really need to make DT an issue?
Because Jacksonville will be judged by it's Downtown more than any area of town. Because DT is the only area that is not just a cookie-cutter franchise-built creation, virtually identical to that found in any other city. Because DT produces far more tax revenue than it consumes, even in it's depressed state. Because DT contains the majority of public areas and buildings that provide the image of Jacksonville to the rest of the world. Because DT is the oldest and most historic part of the city as well as it's geographic core.
If DT dies it will spread outward to the rest of the city eventually.
Quote from: vicupstate on April 28, 2011, 12:22:40 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 28, 2011, 12:10:54 PM
QuoteHowever, he really needs to show DT a little tlc.
Why? Because DT features 2000 residents as compared with the 800,000+ others in outlying areas? Again, why do people who go to SJTC really need to make DT an issue?
Because Jacksonville will be judged by it's Downtown more than any area of town. Because DT is the only area that is not just a cookie-cutter franchise-built creation, virtually identical to that found in any other city. Because DT produces far more tax revenue than it consumes, even in it's depressed state. Because DT contains the majority of public areas and buildings that provide the image of Jacksonville to the rest of the world. Because DT is the oldest and most historic part of the city as well as it's geographic core.
If DT dies it will spread outward to the rest of the city eventually.
I agree with you on the DT thing, except the last bolded statement which is really hard to prove.
-Josh
Quote from: iMarvin on April 25, 2011, 08:57:59 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 25, 2011, 08:54:56 PM
The debate is basically over. To be honest, this wasn't really a debate. It was a timed Q&A session.
Yeah, it was really boring. I was hoping for some back-and-forth but that was just boring. Really boring. :(
Thats the Jacksonville style of doing things....yep
QuoteBecause Jacksonville will be judged by it's Downtown more than any area of town. Because DT is the only area that is not just a cookie-cutter franchise-built creation, virtually identical to that found in any other city. Because DT produces far more tax revenue than it consumes, even in it's depressed state. Because DT contains the majority of public areas and buildings that provide the image of Jacksonville to the rest of the world. Because DT is the oldest and most historic part of the city as well as it's geographic core.
If DT dies it will spread outward to the rest of the city eventually.
You should run for mayor! Oh wait, we already have 1 cheerleader for downtown. DT will be fine regardless of who is mayor. DT cannot fix what ails the community, jobs. 10% unemployment. Ask people with underwater mortgages if they care about fixing downtown or a job, they vote with their wallet everytime.
I am underwater, and I care about Downtown. A vibrant, job creating Downtown helps all of Duval County by increasing a tax base that no other neighborhood could match.
QuoteI am underwater, and I care about Downtown. A vibrant, job creating Downtown helps all of Duval County by increasing a tax base that no other neighborhood could match.
Who isn't underwater? You cannot fix 17% tax revenue base to 3% overnight. You won't do it over 4 years either. Meanwhile sacrificing the rest of the neighborhoods is not smart either. Simply put, if the majority of Brown's focus is downtown, he will lose. The tax revenue comes from other parts of the city and they demand to be heard by the candidates.
Nice advertisement of Brown in Avondale though at the Shops in front of the Brick restaurant, although Steve owns the sidewalk in front of his building, I'll have to ask him if he plans to vote for Brown. May have to apply the White/Yellow cab boycott in front of the Brick. But with Mojo's #4 opening, I don't think we'll be hard pressed to find a new go to place. Yawn.....
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 28, 2011, 12:10:54 PM
QuoteHowever, he really needs to show DT a little tlc.
Why? Because DT features 2000 residents as compared with the 800,000+ others in outlying areas? Again, why do people who go to SJTC really need to make DT an issue?
I wish we could separate the SJTC area from the rest of JAX. Their influence has destroyed DT.
Quote from: wsansewjs on April 28, 2011, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on April 28, 2011, 12:22:40 PM
If DT dies it will spread outward to the rest of the city eventually.
I agree with you on the DT thing, except the last bolded statement which is really hard to prove.
-Josh
Cities like Detroit, Flint, Toledo, Buffalo, etc. are great real life examples of what can happen to an entire municipality when the downtown and the immediate area around it dies.
QuoteI wish we could separate the SJTC area from the rest of JAX. Their influence has destroyed DT.
We already have. The FBI moved out there from the Federal Building downtown to Gate Parkway, a number of state agencies are out of downtown, Florida DEP is on Baymeadows Way. US Army corp of engineers is on San Marco Blvd. Even the city moved agencies to Midtown Center and around the city in outlying areas. SJTC is not done growing, as are the areas around Gate Parkway and further east with all that undeveloped land.
Its an amazing exodus of rats from a sinking ship.
Detroit is especially sad. So many beautiful homes and buildings... Jacksonville is Hauntingly following suit.
A the rate we are loosing our homes and buildings we may have passed Detroit!
Quote from: urbaknight on April 28, 2011, 01:45:00 PM
I wish we could separate the SJTC area from the rest of JAX. Their influence has destroyed DT.
SJTC has no more of an impact on DT now than Gateway, Regency, Philips and Normandy Malls did 40 years ago. History proves DT's decline is a result of relocating the rail and maritime industries outside it's borders. That took out thousands of employees and tourist, which eventually led to most hotels closing in the 70s and major retail leaving for the burbs in the 80s. Looking forward, it isn't SJTC stuff that will bring DT back. The focus should be on creating an organic economic base to make DT a self sustaining environment again.
The FBI was located off of Arlington Expressway. I took a friend there for a job interview once. The Army Corps, may not be on the northbank, but they are in the Prudential Building on the southbank. If I am not mistaken that is still part of Downtown.
Downtown , once vibrant and full of practically any type of destination one could think of , was killed by taking all of it away and making downtown mostly office spaces. Until that is changed/reversed/whatever it will remain desolate.. It is a long stretch to say there is nothing to go for , but compared to 40 years ago there is nothing. since there is so much vacant property there, something on the order of a Town Center development in the downtown area might help.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 28, 2011, 01:42:29 PM
Who isn't underwater? You cannot fix 17% tax revenue base to 3% overnight. You won't do it over 4 years either. Meanwhile sacrificing the rest of the neighborhoods is not smart either.
The decline has happened over 50 years...and it may take 50 more to fix it...but we need to start doing it right now.
also, who said anything anout sacrificing other neighborhoods to support downtown? I think every neighborhood is important....but we sure don't make it any easier by constantly building new neighborhoods on vacant land at the edge of the county.
QuoteRats leaving a sinking ship
When that's how you describe the core of your city, it's time for NEW leadership to 'right the ship'. Brown has the potential to do just that. Hogan has shown zero acknowledgement, much less understanding, of the problem or how to solve it, after decades of public service.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 28, 2011, 03:31:33 PM
who said anything anout sacrificing other neighborhoods to support downtown? I think every neighborhood is important....but we sure don't make it any easier by constantly building new neighborhoods on vacant land at the edge of the county.
If I recall, Alvin's response to helping all neighborhoods was that the declining ones may just need a little more attention! Not ignoring other neighborhoods, but having a focus on cleaning up the ones that are falling apart.
QuoteThe decline has happened over 50 years...and it may take 50 more to fix it...but we need to start doing it right now. also, who said anything anout sacrificing other neighborhoods to support downtown? I think every neighborhood is important....but we sure don't make it any easier by constantly building new neighborhoods on vacant land at the edge of the county.
50? Why not since the fire May 3, 1901? Once downtown was burned to the ground, the flood of help to rebuild and expand Jacksonville has not been slowed. In fact it still goes on until there is no more land to build on. When did Brian Teeple say that we will be at maximum density for the county? Was it 2030, 2050? I know it was a few years ago they discussed this to people on MJ, but I am not sure the exact date. Again, just an estimate, but the fact is there is still bucu land in Jax to be developed, and the only thing that has slowed it down, besides President Obama's birth certificate announcement, has been the Great Recession.
Quote from: stephendare on April 28, 2011, 06:40:29 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 28, 2011, 05:45:43 PM
QuoteThe decline has happened over 50 years...and it may take 50 more to fix it...but we need to start doing it right now. also, who said anything anout sacrificing other neighborhoods to support downtown? I think every neighborhood is important....but we sure don't make it any easier by constantly building new neighborhoods on vacant land at the edge of the county.
50? Why not since the fire May 3, 1901? Once downtown was burned to the ground, the flood of help to rebuild and expand Jacksonville has not been slowed. In fact it still goes on until there is no more land to build on. When did Brian Teeple say that we will be at maximum density for the county? Was it 2030, 2050? I know it was a few years ago they discussed this to people on MJ, but I am not sure the exact date. Again, just an estimate, but the fact is there is still bucu land in Jax to be developed, and the only thing that has slowed it down, besides President Obama's birth certificate announcement, has been the Great Recession.
Thank god. Mtrain, I think you grossly misunderstand the concept of density if you think that the county will be at maximum density by 2050.
I say let's put a moratorium on sprawl related development for ten years, in favor of infill projects in the core. (unless it's to fix a pothole in the road or to build sidewalks) It would preserve undeveloped land, which is good for the environment. Any strip mall that becomes underused should be demolished and turned back into woods. Get rid of anti urban policies like the transient vendor ban and the sign ordinance. These factors would force DT to become vibrant again.