I just got back from a 4 day trip to DC and it really opened my eyes to the potential of downtown Jax and the city at large. There are a number of strikingly similar areas between DC and Jax. We can learn from DC to better utilize the positive assets that we already have in place. DC is a dense and vibrant city with tons of pedestrian friendly and human scale developments. Granted, DC pulls in millions of tourists a year that help support these establishments, but it doesn't mean that the same principals don't apply to Jax.
First off, the DC Metro is amazing. During the week, it seemed like the headways between trains were about 3 min on average. Once you get the routes down (takes about 5 minutes) you can get to anywhere in the city with ease. Everywhere we went (Dupont Circle, Friendship Heights, Chinatown, the Smithsonian, Arlington VA..etc) corresponded to a Metro stop. With the exception of the Smithsonian and maybe Chinatown, I would say the Metro preceded all development at these areas. Arlington and Friendship Heights especially; it seemed like all of their development had occurred within the last 10 years. If you could get up about 15 stories, you could see for miles and you'd see nodes of high density development all lined up along the transit lines with park space and medium to low density infill between them. Imagine if areas like Philips & Emerson, JTB, Baymeadows, and the Avenues all had dozens of 10 story buildings that were all centered around a commuter rail line linking them to DT!
The DC core and surrounding areas are exploding with development. What would normally make front page news with great fanfare seems more like a daily event in DC. Projects aren't wrapped in marketing banners and there are no gimmicky sales offices with giant flags or those inflatable tube men. I imagine this is because most of these buildings have sold out before construction, so they don't need the marketing. Development and growth there is headed to the moon, and Jax is still squabbling about sandwich boards and parking meters (btw, in most places in DC they didn't have parking meters).
To see the potential for the Shipyards property, you have to look no farther than the Georgetown Waterfront Park and Washington Harbor. This area is almost identical to a combination of the Shipyards site and the Jacksonville Landing.Georgetown Waterfront and WH are cut off from the rest of Georgetown by the elevated Whitehurst Freeway. One way they overcome this obstacle is continuing the streets underneath the Freeway to improve access. The park has both active an passive uses and it ties into a much longer walking and jogging trail (sound familiar?). Washington Harbor is a 5 story mixed use development that is opened up to the river with an outdoor dining courtyard facing the Potomac. These two areas were packed with people yesterday and full of life. With a little investment in the Shipyards, we could make a portion of it a great waterfront park that would have regional appeal. Also, we don't need to finance huge mega-projects for the site. Washington Harbor would only take up about a fifth of the property space. If we had 2 or 3 of those on the property that would provide the necessary link between the stadium and the CBD.
Finally, another big thing I noticed was the people. Incredibly diverse, very informed, and very in touch with their city and the nation at large. There was an energy there that I rarely ever see in Jax. There was a true class of young professionals, not the Jax 'young professionals' (32 years old, married, and 2 children) 24-28 single and working 8am-7pm or longer. In Dupont Circle there were thousands of them catching a late dinner and drinks at around 10 pm before heading home to read about the market and the latest news before heading to bed. It was a level of sophistication and professionalism that you only hear whispers of in Jax. While we employ thousands at the various financial institutions in town, we still don't attract that kind of person.
Some people will say this isn't a fair comparison, and you're right. Jax is much smaller and doesn't have the government offices, tourism, international diversity, progressive government, or intelligence of DC. However, we can learn from the successful things that DC has done to make our city better. We can start planning now for how we should best implement mass transit. We can better utilize our riverfront parks by incorporating more active uses. We can get the most out of the shipyards by continuing the street grid onto the property and develop it one block at a time. We can follow the complete street principals in Arlington,VA, an area fairly similar to our Southside. We can work to attract and retain young professionals that have transformed and brought 24 hour activity to many parts of the city. There's so much to learn, we just need to be willing to do it.
Glad you had a good time. Were the cherry blossoms still in bloom??
I love Washington, DC. For all the reasons you mentioned. And people don't realize (normally) what a very Southern city it is. It's a very Southern city. Obviously Jacksonville will never rival the nation's capital, but there are many lessons there to learn. Especially around transit and density.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
There was a true class of young professionals, not the Jax 'young professionals' (32 years old, married, and 2 children) 24-28 single and working 8am-7pm or longer.
A "true" young professional doesn't have kids?
Jimmy, The cherry blossoms had almost all fallen. There were other flowering trees that were in bloom and they were beautiful.
Copperfiend, In my opinion, there is a difference between being young and having a job, and being a young professional. If someone has kids, but works 8-7 and then is out most nights until about 11, they would fit my description of a young professional, but I'd feel bad for their kids.
I am not a parent, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine there are certain things (social life, freedom to do things on a whim, independence) that have to take a back seat once you have kids.
Quote from: copperfiend on April 18, 2011, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
There was a true class of young professionals, not the Jax 'young professionals' (32 years old, married, and 2 children) 24-28 single and working 8am-7pm or longer.
A "true" young professional doesn't have kids?
Sweeping generalizations are sweeping! :D
DC is certainly unique, but I was never sure if it was for me. I'm sure If I lived there I would find a way to love it. But I say love where you live or find a place to live that you love.
Jacksonville seems to hate itself too much. ::)
Quote from: copperfiend on April 18, 2011, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
There was a true class of young professionals, not the Jax 'young professionals' (32 years old, married, and 2 children) 24-28 single and working 8am-7pm or longer.
A "true" young professional doesn't have kids?
kids=adult=boring. Totally ageist, but also totally true. You have more important stuff to do than drink and be awesome when you have kids. Namely, take care of kids. This is not a bad thing. I think the stereotypical picture of a young professional is a single wheeler-dealer with more money than bills and little commitment of responsibility (not irresponsible, just lacking in "dependencies" - children, mortgage, etc). Patrick Bateman if you will (less all the homicide). Of course, there are no rules in life.
well DC is also filled with lots of young families...as someone who grew up in the area, I can tell you fitrst hand the overall quality of life is pretty heard to beat....just imagine being able to go to the Smithsonian museums and National Zoo all the time.
It's funny you mention Washington Harbour: http://dcist.com/2011/04/washington_harbour_flooding.php#photo-1 (http://dcist.com/2011/04/washington_harbour_flooding.php#photo-1)
I lived in Arlington and in the District for several years when I was a cool single professional. Now that I'm a boring married professional with a kid, Jacksonville suits me fine.
I have had several opportunities to take jobs in DC and have turned them down so I can stay in Jacksonville. I have visited DC many times and enjoy visiting for a few days at a time, but would never want to live there.
That being said, I do agree that there are some things we can learn from DC, but I would be devestated if Jacksonville ever became like DC.
QuoteI have had several opportunities to take jobs in DC and have turned them down so I can stay in Jacksonville. I have visited DC many times and enjoy visiting for a few days at a time, but would never want to live there.
Why not?
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 18, 2011, 01:24:58 PM
well DC is also filled with lots of young families...as someone who grew up in the area, I can tell you fitrst hand the overall quality of life is pretty heard to beat....just imagine being able to go to the Smithsonian museums and National Zoo all the time.
Also, Jacksonville at least seems to ME to also have a lot of single young professionals. Certainly more than other Florida cities I've lived in. Now
those were the places that were full of the "boring" married people.
First, way too dense. As much as people complain about Jacksonville's sprawl, and I'll be the first to admit that we need to create urban infill, its kind of nice to have a backyard that is bigger than a love seat (or no backyeard at all). Not having concrete everywhere and people living on top of eachother is appealing to a lot of us.
Second, traffic. I think people in Jacksonville forget how annoying real traffic is and take for granted the fact that for the most part our freeways run smoothly. My uncle commutes from less than 30 miles outside of DC and averages 3 hours a day (roundtrip) sitting in traffic.
Last, the heralded "young professionals". I have been out and about a pretty good bit in DC, and it seems to be a magnet for all of the kids I didn't like in college. They take themselves way too seriously, think they are the smartest people in the room, and tend to be brown nosers. I'd rather have a beer with a laid back, humble and curious to learn, principled surfer dude from Jax Beach anyday.
I think the biggest things we could steal from DC is transit and more emphasis on celebrating what makes us unique (ie unique museums about our role in history, festivals that celebrate our contributions to music, etc.)
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
(btw, in most places in DC they didn't have parking meters).
This is simply not true, unless you are referring to the residential areas. On virtually every commercial street in the city one must pay to park.
Quote from: finehoe on April 18, 2011, 01:50:54 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
(btw, in most places in DC they didn't have parking meters).
This is simply not true, unless you are referring to the residential areas. On virtually every commercial street in the city one must pay to park.
I must have some crazy luck, because for the most part I didn't see meters. I'd say about 70% of the streets I was on had no 2 hour parking, no meters. Chinatown was not that way.
QuoteOn-street Parking: There are 2-hour meters that run until 10:30 pm. Some streets now have multispace parking meters. So, instead of a having a meter at each space, there is one meter for several spaces. These green meters have a "P" on the side. The driver can pay with cash or credit card, then print a small receipt to place on the dashboard indicating how long they are allowed to park there.
http://living-in-washingtondc.com/livinginchinatown-washingtondc.php
Quote from: geauxtigers31 on April 18, 2011, 01:46:58 PM
I'd rather have a beer with a laid back, humble and curious to learn, principled surfer dude from Jax Beach anyday.
amen
Quote from: finehoe on April 18, 2011, 02:09:27 PM
On-street Parking: There are 2-hour meters that run until 10:30 pm. Some streets now have multispace parking meters. So, instead of a having a meter at each space, there is one meter for several spaces. These green meters have a "P" on the side. The driver can pay with cash or credit card, then print a small receipt to place on the dashboard indicating how long they are allowed to park there.
http://living-in-washingtondc.com/livinginchinatown-washingtondc.php
This explains a lot!! I saw a number of those poles with the P on them. I thought they were signage for a garage. Thanks for clearing that up. I used the metro, so I never bothered to actually see what those poles were.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on April 18, 2011, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: geauxtigers31 on April 18, 2011, 01:46:58 PM
I'd rather have a beer with a laid back, humble and curious to learn, principled surfer dude from Jax Beach anyday.
amen
You're quite the linguist Gtiger. That's quite the string of euphemisms describing our beach populous. PJ, come on....
Quote from: geauxtigers31 on April 18, 2011, 01:46:58 PM
Last, the heralded "young professionals". I have been out and about a pretty good bit in DC, and it seems to be a magnet for all of the kids I didn't like in college. They take themselves way too seriously, think they are the smartest people in the room, and tend to be brown nosers. I'd rather have a beer with a laid back, humble and curious to learn, principled surfer dude from Jax Beach anyday.
This is the impression I had when I visited. DC is a different culture from here, and that culture is one reason why I wasn't inclined to go live there. That, and the fact that if you don't want that 3 hour a day commute time and you want to live close to transit, you get to spend $1200 a month to live in a closet.
DC definitely had its positives, career and social opportunities being the big ones. Being the nation's capital is obviously going to provide aspects (monmuents, museums, a "vibe") that would be difficult to recreate elsewhere. I'm not trying to start a political thread here, but the explosive growth of the federal government over the past 30 years has obviously had an effect on the city and surrounding area.
My biggest complaints about DC were cost and traffic. A starter home in a safe neighborhood in the District or a close-in suburb makes Avondale look cheap by comparison. Unless you have two spouses making six figures each, you will likely have to look well outside the beltway, which brings me to my second complaint...
I sometimes say the best thing about Jacksonville is that rush hour is actually an hour. In DC, the morning rush starts around 5:00 AM and ends around 10:00. The afternoon rush starts at 3:00 and doesn't end till after 8:00. When I first moved to DC, I could take Metro to Farragut West, although sometimes three trains would go by before one had room to squeeze me in. Unfortunately, my job got transfered to Tysons, and the reverse commute was worse than the normal one due to the lack of carpool restrictions. An 11 mile drive would often take more than an hour.
Metrorail is certainly nice, and I wish we had something comparable here. But keep this in mind: the proposed Silver Line extension from East Falls Church to Dulles is now projected to cost almost $7 billion, almost three times as much as the proposed Tampa/Orlando HSR. And that's after doing away with the more costly underground option through Tysons.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 18, 2011, 12:59:36 PM
Copperfiend, In my opinion, there is a difference between being young and having a job, and being a young professional. If someone has kids, but works 8-7 and then is out most nights until about 11, they would fit my description of a young professional, but I'd feel bad for their kids.
I am not a parent, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine there are certain things (social life, freedom to do things on a whim, independence) that have to take a back seat once you have kids.
From your statement, it sounds like what you would consider "young professional" in Jacksonville would be considered "working class" in an area like DC. Is this correct?
An interesting aspect of Washington is that there isn't much of a (white) working class there. That's not to say that there are no working class-level jobs there, but that most of these type jobs tend to filled by immigrants or people from Baltimore or West Virginia. Even the waiters and sales clerks tend to be college-educated and often have other 9-5 jobs and are working to make extra money because many lower-level white-collar jobs don't pay enough to live on.
I think I saw on CBS Sunday morning where DC had the most jobs over the last 2 years. I'll search for that and report back, but that would be a shock to see DC, the federal government, having grown more than the other states over the last couple of years. Quite the poster-child for recovery.
Anyone want to bet which way the jobs will be flowing in Tallahassee?
Quote from: finehoe on April 18, 2011, 04:53:13 PM
An interesting aspect of Washington is that there isn't much of a (white) working class there. That's not to say that there are no working class-level jobs there, but that most of these type jobs tend to filled by immigrants or people from Baltimore or West Virginia. Even the waiters and sales clerks tend to be college-educated and often have other 9-5 jobs and are working to make extra money because many lower-level white-collar jobs don't pay enough to live on.
Had a friend up there who was grossing twice as much as me for a similiar job to mine, and yet she was complaining she was broke all the time.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 18, 2011, 06:05:37 PM
Anyone want to bet which way the jobs will be flowing in Tallahassee?
Not at all or down the drain.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 18, 2011, 06:05:37 PM
I think I saw on CBS Sunday morning where DC had the most jobs over the last 2 years. I'll search for that and report back, but that would be a shock to see DC, the federal government, having grown more than the other states over the last couple of years. Quite the poster-child for recovery.
Anyone want to bet which way the jobs will be flowing in Tallahassee?
note that most of those jobs were not in the federal government directly, but in related jobs (i.e, contractors, lobbyists, think tanks, etc.)...similarly, most state capitals fared better than other areas during the recession.
QuoteUnless you have at least two spouses making six figures each, you will likely have to look well outside the beltway
Funny, they have the same theory in Salt Lake City. :D
Blooming
Boom times in the capital
EVERY spring, hundreds of thousands of visitors flock to America’s capital to take in the gorgeous vistas of cherry-blossom time. Above the bloom-laden trees, this year’s tourists glimpsed a rare sight: cranes towering over downtown Washington and the nearby suburbs. Across the metropolitan area, ambitious building projects are moving forward. Bold developers are once more confident that demand will materialise. While most of America frets over a jobless recovery, the Washington economy is booming.
On nearly every measure, the capital is exceptional. At 5.9%, Washington’s unemployment rate is easily the lowest among America’s large metropolitan areas. That is down from a recession high of just 7%, well below the national peak of 10.1%. Employment in the metro area has risen by about 84,000 over the past yearâ€"roughly 6% of America’s job growth, in a region with just 2% of its population. Incomes are high and rising, and the combination of job and income growth has buoyed a property market that was battered by the housing bust. House values in most cities fell in the year to January, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller index of prices. But whereas an index of prices in 20 large cities dropped 3% during that time, values in Washington rose 3.6%.
To many Americans, the capital’s boom mainly reflects the relentless growth of the bureaucratic state. Washington’s economy is supported by federal government employment, which is virtually recession-proof. The federal government accounts for 2.2% of all jobs nationally, but for nearly 13% of those in the Washington area. And the capital’s primary business did not collapse during the recession as other sectors did. Federal employment in the area rose by nearly 20,000 from the beginning of the downturn to its end, and continued to rise through the summer of last year.
And yet it would be wrong to attribute Washington’s success in creating jobs entirely to the public sector. Although federal spending rose, the recession forced state governments in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia to cut back. And rising federal-government employment during the downturn was partly driven by efforts to save flailing private industry. The government added workers to oversee intervention in the financial-services and car industries, and financial-regulatory agencies have continued to add staff since. Washington has frequently grown stronger in the wake of economic calamity, often because of public demand for more market oversight.
Well away from federal government, Washington also has other advantages. Its suburbs support a rich array of high-tech and bioscience enterprises, many of which held up well during the downturn. The city’s labour pool tends to be highly-skilled, and the impact of the recession was mostly felt by the lower-skilled. Based solely on the education levels of its adult population, the unemployment rate for the Washington area ought to be about 7%â€"well below the national average, and not far off its actual figure.
Republican budget-cutting may now take a toll. Washington’s market for office space may cool as the federal government pares back its demand for space, and local retailers are grumpy about lost cost-of-living adjustments for federal workers. But the latest budget deal largely spared the region’s economy. The federal government will continue to chip in for the city’s rail transit system; but as part of the deal the District can no longer use its own money to pay for abortions. This will hurt the city’s poorer residents, some of whom live in neighbourhoods with unemployment rates close to 25%.
http://www.economist.com/node/18561085