http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-04-14/story/st-johns-bicyclist-hit-and-run-was-23-year-old-student-south-carolina
Surprised that you guys didn't have this up here yesterday. My husband and I are in the process of moving back to FL...3 years in TX was enough, and yet this is one thing I'm not looking forward to dealing with again. Try doing a Google search on "cyclist killed" + Jacksonville, FL. There's at least one every year: April '09, July '10, Oct. '10, March '11, and now April '11.
All the work done in FL to create bike lanes and laws around protecting cyclists will not make the average driver pay attention to their surroundings.
I just noticed that the article says the damage to the truck is on the driver's side. How would that be possible if the truck and bike were both traveling in the same direction on the road? If the driver just went off the side of the road wouldn't he/she have hit the cyclist on the passenger side?
QuoteThere are no sidewalks or a bike lane in that stretch or rural roadway.
Many rural roads are lucky to have pavement, let alone sidewalks and a bike lane. Very sad to see that the driver kept on going. There are many great roads in our area with bike lanes. Its not something that can be fixed overnight, but we are making progress with "Share the Road", and public awareness.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 14, 2011, 01:28:13 PM
QuoteThere are no sidewalks or a bike lane in that stretch or rural roadway.
Many rural roads are lucky to have pavement, let alone sidewalks and a bike lane. Very sad to see that the driver kept on going. There are many great roads in our area with bike lanes. Its not something that can be fixed overnight, but we are making progress with "Share the Road", and public awareness.
I guess from my perspective, it doesn't matter whether or not there is a bike lane since the bike is a vehicle. The drivers need to pay attention and should not need to have a bike lane, or a Share the Road sign, or big flashing lights for them to wake up and pay attention to what they are doing.
I also found it interesting that the author mentioned that there were no sidewalks as if that was a viable option for the cyclist had it been there. The cyclist was riding a high-performance racing bike. People moving at high-rates of speed do not belong on a sidewalk with pedestrians.
Anywho, not looking forward to having to deal with the idiot drivers for sure.
Sad... Bicyclists have every right to be there too.. I hope if the driver is not identified , this haunts them for the rest of their life. :(
That cover photo will haunt me for a long time. I know several people who have been hit by cars while riding. While they may be pretty messed up, the bikes are usually practically undamaged. Those bikes are very strong. This bike was completely destroyed. I've never seen anything like it.
Quote from: second_pancake on April 14, 2011, 12:23:48 PM
I just noticed that the article says the damage to the truck is on the driver's side. How would that be possible if the truck and bike were both traveling in the same direction on the road? If the driver just went off the side of the road wouldn't he/she have hit the cyclist on the passenger side?
Not of the truck took a turn wide and hit him head on. That road is two lane w/o a bike lane.
oh my lord :(
I hate to rain on the pity parade, and I may be way out of line, but there are cyclists and there are people riding bicycles. I happen to fall in the former group and haven't (knock on wood) had any accidents in the decade that I've lived here.
I typically ride between 20-50 miles a week on Blanding, Park, Edgewood, Cassat, Lem Turner, Soutel, Lane, Pearl, Main, Downtown, College, St. Johns & Riverside. I've never been hit, had an object thrown at me, or otherwised been caused harm from something other than a pothole or curb. I don't have rear-view mirrors, I do have earbuds plugged all the way in, I don't ride on the sidewalk (we're not allowed to by law), I do hug the line. I try to stay on 4-lane roads, but sometimes my road doesn't allow it. There are parts of town where the cars actually slow down and follow on a 2-lane and I use that incentive to speed up a notch or two.
I'm really sorry for the people that have died while riding their bikes. I'm equally angry everytime I see a 'cyclist' running a red light, cutting in and out of traffic and just generally disobeying the rules of the road. I also get just as pissed when I see someone flying down the sidewalks - They're not ours, the road is.
I understand the contempt of jacksonville drivers, but you have to realize that there are enough out their on bicycles that give the one's of us who know how to ride a bad name. Have you ever driven down San Jose with a pack of 10-15 bikes using an entire lane, all dressed in their sponsored (read I paid a lot to show their name) gear? I have, and I'm sure some of you have too. That's not the way to get our message across. The dirty dozen should be side by side, hugging the white ine.
Westsider,
I mentioned that ignorance breeds contempt and hate and your post is another example of this. It's interesting the various types of prejudice that exist: Motorists against cyclists/"people riding bikes", motorcyclists against motorists, "people riding bikes" against cyclists.
You mentioned some things in your post that clearly show you have no knowledge of the groups that ride in your area or about cyclists in general so I will attempt to educate you in hopes that you can appreciate what it is that we go through. Maybe the next time you are out riding your bike and you see a pack of cyclists roll through, you can look at them with different eyes.
1. "I typically ride between 20-50 miles a week...I've never been hit, had an object thrown at me, or otherwised been caused harm from something other than a pothole or curb." - That's great. Truely. I am glad you get out and ride your bike, everyone should. However, these cyclists you see typically ride 50 miles per day. These are training rides for upcoming competitions and to keep their bodies in shape. For many of them, this is their job. We have great athletes in our area that have won and/or competed in major competitions all over the world. When you put that many miles in, you increase your exposure to risk and inevitably you become a victim.
Think of it this way, if you flew every flight you could from Jax and back every day for a year, what do you think your odds are that one of those flights would have some kind of scary issue? Pretty good I would say.
2. "I'm equally angry everytime I see a 'cyclist' running a red light, cutting in and out of traffic and just generally disobeying the rules of the road. " - As are most of us, however, speaking from experience and someone who has ridden in these groups (yes, even the one on San Jose), sometimes you have to assesss the situation and choose the option that keeps you safe. Sometimes that means doing a rolling stop through a stop sign or running a red light. When you have 40+ people traveling at 30+mph climbing up your rear and you are on a tandem (which is the equivalent of a semi-truck in cycling), you come to a 4-way stop and there is one car coming that has yet to come to the stop sign, you don't stop. Stopping means you could cause a pile-up, or in terms of the tandem which is very slow to get moving but like a mack-truck once rolling, you're talking about having folks whipping past you before you even get the bike upright. This is scary and unsafe and far more dangerous than rolling through a stop sign.
3. "Have you ever driven down San Jose with a pack of 10-15 bikes using an entire lane, all dressed in their sponsored (read I paid a lot to show their name) gear?...That's not the way to get our message across. The dirty dozen should be side by side, hugging the white line." - So many ways to address this one, but I'll try to keep it educational. Typically,a pelaton should be riding 2 abreast at all times. It is how the group rotates riders in and out from front to back. They have a right to do this. It is impossible for 2 people to "hug the white line" when they are riding next to one another. There are instances, and yes I have seen them, when there are 3 or 4 people abreast, however I rarely see this unless they are coming to a stop sign or red light and overtaking the lane, which they should be doing and again, have every right to do so.
Now, on to the team kits. This is what they are called. Despite your perception, the teams typically pay $50 for a jersey & $100 for a pair of shorts. Most people spend more on a pair of jeans and designer t-shirt. Those folks don't get ridiculed for walking around "sponsoring" Ed Hardy, Donna Karen, or Baby Phat. For many of the riders, this is the only technical wear they own. They don't have multiple kits, only the one. And so far as the sponsors paying a lot of money to have their name on the jerseys? LOL. THat couldn't be further from the truth. Most of the amatuer cycling groups here are lucky to even get a sponsor! They spend countless hours pitching to companies in the hopes that someone will want to advertise on the jersey so they will have a legitimate team and not 'Fred's Cycling Team'. And if you think for a moment that the sponsors don't ditch when every it becomes inconvenient for them, they don't want to do the cycling thing anymore, or just get tired of people bitching about their "damn team" riding "all over the road", you're wrong. They do, and the team has to find new sponsors.
There are companies that start their own cycling teams, i.e. RadioShack, however those are pro teams. The ones you're talking about are amatuer local teams. They don't get paid for anything unless they win at a race (paid by the race sponsor, not the team sponsor), they have to pay for all their gear (no freebies here), and they are happy to do it because they just want to get on their bike and ride and compete and if nothing else, acheive a personal goal.
And fianlly, using terms like "dirty dozen" showthat you are no different or better than the ignorant drivers wishing the worst for anyone on two wheels.
I hope this changes yur perception a bit. Try going on a group ride (not the race rides...you'll get killed, lol) but a nice Sunday ride which knows how to ride. Once you feel the speed under you and the comradierie among everyone, you won't be riding only 50 miles a week with earbuds entirely in your ears.
Growing up in Orange Park (See avatar), my bicycle was my only steady mode of transportation until I reached college. I have only had one bad experience with a bicyle. I was leaving Five Points to attend a funeral in Mandarin when I reached the intersection of Park and Post Streets. The queue of cars was unusually long; we were stuck behind an unusual number of cars that were making a left-hand turn. I ended up being stuck behind a bicycle that was in the middle of the land and making a left hand turn onto Post. The light cycled at least thrice before the bicycle proceeded to turn. I finally made it onto I-95 south, but was pissed nonetheless. How rude and inconsiderate of that bicycle person. Otherwise, I think bicycle riders are good citizens.
Quote from: dougskiles on April 14, 2011, 07:50:19 PM
That cover photo will haunt me for a long time. I know several people who have been hit by cars while riding. While they may be pretty messed up, the bikes are usually practically undamaged. Those bikes are very strong. This bike was completely destroyed. I've never seen anything like it.
And the debris left behind from the truck was unreal. I can't imagine how hard he hit to have his bumper torn off. It was like instant obliteration.
Quoteit doesn't matter whether or not there is a bike lane since the bike is a vehicle
QuoteSometimes that means doing a rolling stop through a stop sign or running a red light.
So you want to be treated as a vehicle but then you try to justify not obeying the laws that vehicles must follow. Sounds a little contradictory to me especially when trying to "educate" someone about cycling.
setting all of these very good points aside.... there is NO excuse for a driver hitting a bicyclist ( I don't care WHO is at fault) and bailing.
Quote from: Timkin on April 15, 2011, 11:48:34 AM
setting all of these very good points aside.... there is NO excuse for a driver hitting a bicyclist ( I don't care WHO is at fault) and bailing.
AMEN!!!
Interesting claims on both sides. Actually kind of odd that a site that wants to promote walking, bicycling and public transportation would have any negative talk against bike riders but then again I've ridden with many of them and didn't like them either when I was in the pack. There are jerks behind the wheel and handle bars.
The sponsored riders pancake talks about are semi truth there are some sponsored riders. But the vast majority are people with day jobs like the rest of us. You'll find that they all come in different classes to. He's thinking about the AA and A riders that ride like the wind. Most of us would fall in the B and C riders. Slower averages as the letters get higher. For example I was a solid Killer B, then got older and fatter and slipped into a mushey C -.
Either way it is easier for the drivers to accellerate away after a short delay. If it delays you planning and execution are not your strong points.
Quote from: cline on April 15, 2011, 10:38:59 AM
Quoteit doesn't matter whether or not there is a bike lane since the bike is a vehicle
QuoteSometimes that means doing a rolling stop through a stop sign or running a red light.
So you want to be treated as a vehicle but then you try to justify not obeying the laws that vehicles must follow. Sounds a little contradictory to me especially when trying to "educate" someone about cycling.
If you were driving on an icy road and coming up to a stop knowing that you the odds were very good that you would skid & be sitting the middle of the intersection, or that you could skid into a ditch, would you hit the brakes? If you were in a SmartCar driving down the road, doing the speed limit, and everyone around you is flying by at 10 over, passing you all over the place, would you tap the brakes, continue driving at your pace, or find the gas and try and keep up? If you found yourself at a traffic light, among 3 other drivers, at a 4-way, and everyone's light was red for well over a minute...all of you just sitting there staring at one another, would you find a way to get everyone through the intersection by going through the light, or would you continue to sit there staring at one another?
We ALL break the traffic rules at some point in our lives. It's a necessary evil. I'm not saying that it's ok in all circumstances to roll through a light or stop sign and is definitely not a "right". I am saying that each situation is different and requires a person to keep their own safety in mind, as well as the safety of others when cycling, when choosing what to do.
Cyclists don't have the right to impede traffic (which is what the Critical Mass rides do which I do not agree with), they ARE traffic. I use the exact same judgment when I am on my bike as I do when I am behind the wheel of my car.