Mike Hogan's $62 Million Budget Cutting Plan
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Metro Jacksonville shares mayoral candidate's Mike Hogan's plan to get the city's financial house in order.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-apr-mike-hogans-62-million-budget-cutting-plan
Ugggggh - I'm still bitter that Audrey didn't make it to the final round. Now I feel like I am either voting for Mike Hogan or against Mike Hogan. Sorry Alvin, but I'm just not hearing enough to get me really excited about your campaign. If I vote for Alvin, it will really be a vote cast against Hogan.
And then there is part of me that believes we will benefit from the 'housecleaning' that he proposes. I deal with city government everyday. There is room for improvement. And there are endless hours and meetings debating things like proper placement of sprinkler heads - which makes you wonder - do these people have enough to do?
With Audrey we almost had the best of both worlds. Now we have to choose between no vision and unknown vision. BUT - once that choice is made - we need to get on with it. One person doesn't make or break a group as large and diverse as Jacksonville.
Well, all I can say is that this proposal has landed with a small thump, not the explosive challenge it was meant to be.
Combine divisions and departments functions - This could be important but which divisions? which departments?
Evaluate every existing contract - such a great idea that no other mayor ever thought of it.
Reduce mayoral appointees - You mean that all those folks who've thrown their political might behind Mr. Hogan will get nothing in return?
And, where's the part about standing firm against pork barrel projects from the City Council members?
You have done what all other republicans had done...deregualte and defund...it does'nt work you silly fool. Invest in our community...stop taking it and giving it to the wealthy by making thier rules different than those than don't have as much cash....you are a ass kissing rich boy and please go away.
Quote from: Jumpinjack on April 14, 2011, 07:42:55 AM
Well, all I can say is that this proposal has landed with a small thump, not the explosive challenge it was meant to be.
Combine divisions and departments functions - This could be important but which divisions? which departments?
Evaluate every existing contract - such a great idea that no other mayor ever thought of it.
Reduce mayoral appointees - You mean that all those folks who've thrown their political might behind Mr. Hogan will get nothing in return?
And, where's the part about standing firm against pork barrel projects from the City Council members?
There are several duplicated functions in IT across COJ. Every election there are rumors that they will outsource it to a managed provider (like IBM Government Services), but they really need to get rid of duplication across each city tower. For example JEA and COJ each pay $$ to maintain their own GIS system. (and they don't align either.....)
I still get amazed about how some issue comes up because someone hasn't read the contract. Doing a total contract review is a way to capture duplicate deals, stop being surprised by what COJ is really on the hook for.
Mayoral appointees is a way to get around certain budget limitations in various COJ departments. Realigning staffing levels to match reality for a department is ideal, but lets face it, governments are in part politically driven organizations. Some mayors like to make sure they have loyal forces spread through out the organization to make sure their priorities are followed through on. I can only assume Hogan wants to move more to a meritocracy based employment and away from political cronyism.
Doing a telecom cost review is the "low hanging fruit" in any cost reduction exercise. The sector is very competitive and is always ripe for a cost reduction. It can be knocked off quickly and you don't need hundreds of consultants to prepare for it. A quick win.
If Hogan wants to reorganize the City to save money fine. Peyton said the same thing. My problem with Hogan, is his unwillingness to even discuss the issues with opposing views for the most part and his lack of concern for Downtown. I happen to believe a vibrant DT will help all of Duval County. The hole in the middle needs to be filled. Empty lots are a tax base waiting to be created!
QuoteThere are several duplicated functions in IT across COJ. Every election there are rumors that they will outsource it to a managed provider (like IBM Government Services), but they really need to get rid of duplication across each city tower. For example JEA and COJ each pay $$ to maintain their own GIS system. (and they don't align either.....)
I still get amazed about how some issue comes up because someone hasn't read the contract. Doing a total contract review is a way to capture duplicate deals, stop being surprised by what COJ is really on the hook for.
Mayoral appointees is a way to get around certain budget limitations in various COJ departments. Realigning staffing levels to match reality for a department is ideal, but lets face it, governments are in part politically driven organizations. Some mayors like to make sure they have loyal forces spread through out the organization to make sure their priorities are followed through on. I can only assume Hogan wants to move more to a meritocracy based employment and away from political cronyism.
Doing a telecom cost review is the "low hanging fruit" in any cost reduction exercise. The sector is very competitive and is always ripe for a cost reduction. It can be knocked off quickly and you don't need hundreds of consultants to prepare for it. A quick win.
At lease he can call on some EXPERIENCE as the Tax Collector in the Yates Building, which houses other city offices, for some ideas on cutting expenses in the city. Poor Alvin Brown has no such experience.
That is it? That is it? Really? That is all you got Mike? You are not running a convenient store!
QuoteYou are not running a convenient store!
Nope our current Mayor plans to return to that job very soon! Who knows, maybe he'll make you an ice cream cone!
or clean the toilets!
I hope it is strawberry
::)
I don't know, strawberry toilets don't sound good to me! LOL
OCKLAWAHA
If Hogan gets in we will all be cleaning toilets!
I too am hearing complaints that Alvin is NOT making any clear issue, IE: "we need to", "I plan to", "Jacksonville will", type statements. In fact yesterday at the VA clinic this was the talk of the whole medical staff.
On the other hand, Hogan is bringing NOTHING to the table, but he plans to remove it's legs. While I completely disagree with Garden Guy or Faye's ranting about party politics, this latest crop of Republican news makers all appear to have never had an original idea, invention, or concept in their lives. Anyone can cut the budget at the YMCA by draining the pool, but when the people move on to different venues, then what? These guys want Light Rail, but they want it to run on two negative wires!
Face it, we cannot spend ourselves rich or drink ourselves dry (though I've been known to try), but spending NOTHING on ANYTHING is a recipe for howling wind and tumbleweeds. Streetcar, Light Rail, and Commuter Rail have all been proven to return far more in new TAX PAYING DEVELOPMENT, then the cost of the systems. I strongly suspect great schools, waterfront parks, piers and access, and restored urban parks could have at least a break even result.
OCKLAWAHA
It won't be bad under Hogan. Jacksonville will grow a little and be about the same when he leaves as it was when he took office. Unless we lose the Jags. Alvin is a chance for real improvement.
If he thinks he is going to save money by cutting out lobbying, he doesn't know much about politics outside of the Jax GOB system.
Losing one grant that a lobbyist could have secured, can easily pay for the lobbyist's cost for a decade. Instead that grant will go somewhere else.
Penny wise, dollar foolish.
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Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 14, 2011, 09:44:03 AM
Anyone can cut the budget at the YMCA by draining the pool, but when the people move on to different venues, then what?
I thought this was an awesome metaphor and it needed to be repeated.
CAN one save money at the Y without draining the pool? CAN one change things up and save money for the COJ without destroying the reasons people live and visit here?
Ock, you really get it. Thanks for making it that clear. The YMCA metaphor was spot on.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 14, 2011, 10:10:45 AM
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Just 5 hours and 275 miles north of my desert cabin is the "City of Rhyolite, Nevada." Their lobbyist moved to Reno and Vegas, along with their grant money. Not your typical wood shack and tent city mining camp, Rhyolite was a city of great buildings, nestled in the Bullfrog and Ryolite Mountains. When the mines closed, Rhyolite refused to adapt to modern Nevada attractions... In 1937 an attempt was finally made to convert the then deserted railroad station into a casino, but without customers, the casino closed and there wasn't a Mustang Ranch in sight. They cut the budget, cut it again, and again, and finally rolled up the streets and left town forever. Is Jacksonville next? Hell's bells I can get this same "progress" in my own "Old Women Mountains," over in California.
OCKLAWAHA
I have a hard time seeing this happen to Jacksonville. I said this before in another thread but our location is too perfect. We're right between Georgia and Florida making us a rather good destination. Unless the city does something really stupid (i.e. Ban Railroads & Ships) or a gigantic disaster occurs, companies and governments will still be forced to locate to this city not really because they want to but because they HAVE TO!
If this do get to that point, the state or even the federal government will probably step it and start taking over. Jacksonville is to valuable a city to loose.
I believe Cleveland had the same mentality. Their location could not be beat.
It appears so.
Quote from: Lunican on April 14, 2011, 11:04:51 AM
I believe Cleveland had the same mentality. Their location could not be beat.
If they did, they shouldn't have. Jax has a legitimate claim to being geographically well-situated to attract residents and business alike. And even though being in the south comes with all those southerners :P, the weather is pretty great.
I still don't see what is forcing companies to relocate to Jax "not really because they want to but because they HAVE TO!"
Why the focus specifically at *62* million?
By the way,a post today on the MJ Trout River thread notes the Jacksonville Waterways Commission is angling for a new Trout River fishing pier that would cost the City in excess of $400,000.
How do such aspirations position in current city budget matters?
Quote from: north miami on April 14, 2011, 12:09:09 PM
Why the focus specfically at *62* million?
I think that's the budget deficit they project.
Quote from: cityimrov on April 14, 2011, 10:57:51 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on April 14, 2011, 10:10:45 AM
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Just 5 hours and 275 miles north of my desert cabin is the "City of Rhyolite, Nevada." Their lobbyist moved to Reno and Vegas, along with their grant money. Not your typical wood shack and tent city mining camp, Rhyolite was a city of great buildings, nestled in the Bullfrog and Ryolite Mountains. When the mines closed, Rhyolite refused to adapt to modern Nevada attractions... In 1937 an attempt was finally made to convert the then deserted railroad station into a casino, but without customers, the casino closed and there wasn't a Mustang Ranch in sight. They cut the budget, cut it again, and again, and finally rolled up the streets and left town forever. Is Jacksonville next? Hell's bells I can get this same "progress" in my own "Old Women Mountains," over in California.
OCKLAWAHA
I have a hard time seeing this happen to Jacksonville. I said this before in another thread but our location is too perfect. We're right between Georgia and Florida making us a rather good destination. Unless the city does something really stupid (i.e. Ban Railroads & Ships) or a gigantic disaster occurs, companies and governments will still be forced to locate to this city not really because they want to but because they HAVE TO!
If this do get to that point, the state or even the federal government will probably step it and start taking over. Jacksonville is to valuable a city to loose.
But all we have done is sustain, while our neighbors are cashing in! Are we going to learn from them and progress forward?
I do not understand how Hogan supporters are treating Alvin Brown like he has never had a job in his life and has no skills to bring to the mayor's office. While it is convenient to set up a narrative in which Alvin Brown just fell off the turnip truck and Mike Hogan is the second coming of Hans Tanzler, it would help to know that Alvin Brown has an MBA, he has served on the board of the Jacksonville Regional Chamber of Commerce, managed $4 billion in community empowement money under the Clinton administration, helped to rebuild New Orleans houses of worship after Hurricane Katrina, and served on the Jacksonville University board of directors.
I do not understand how we stand around scratching our heads and questioning Alvin Brown when we let a St. Johns County resident cruise into office with the power of his name and his money. I fear that many people are fishing for excuses not to vote for Alvin Brown.
This does not bode well for our system of city government. We should at least make it a real race and not just hand the election to Mike Hogan. What incentive would he have to listen to us if he sees a cakewalk in May.
+1 Well said.
And further, Brown is an Executive in Residence at JU now. That's not some honorary position or title. He is staff to the Business Department and helps students in innumerable ways. He's not a neophyte; he's not some alien person to Jacksonville, government, business, and finance. He's the closest thing to an expert in job creation that we've ever seen on the ballot. He deserves a hard look and open mind from voters.
Quoteit would help to know that Alvin Brown has an MBA, he has served on the board of the Jacksonville Regional Chamber of Commerce, managed $4 billion in community empowement money under the Clinton administration, helped to rebuild New Orleans houses of worship after Hurricane Katrina, and served on the Jacksonville University board of directors.
Wonderful resume! Did you leave out the part about government experience in Jacksonville? I am sure he would be elected as mayor in New Orleans based on his experience there, or perhaps the next president of JU, but what experience does he have in running government in Jacksonville?
Maybe Wally Lee can get on the soapbox and speak on behalf of Mr. Brown, as the head of the Chamber, surely he MUST have something available as a soundbite regarding Mr. Brown's experience in the Chamber?!? Or perhaps the Trustees from JU can come out and discuss his work at JU.
If the election is TRULY about Jacksonville, let's get a wave of recommendations going back and forth by people who can discuss what each candidate has done in Jacksonville, for Jacksonville, and why Jacksonville citizens should vote for each candidate! I am open to hear the locals come to each's rescue. I don't care about a guy in DC or NOLA, I want local peeps singing praises from the pulpits.
Jacksonville's government is too inbred as it is. What's wrong with having experience and perspective gained both locally and from other areas. Why not learn from someplace else's mistakes and achievements?
Nothing says 'Capital of South Georgia' more than thinking only a native that never left can run the place. Geez
How many of you have heard this phrase from your mothers over the years? "If you want to go out and play, you have to clean up your room first"? Mom's have a knack for understanding that there is an order to life and balance. They know that if you give cookies to a kid, they will eat them non stop until the cookie jar is empty. Then mom has to spend to buy cookies to fill the jar more and more often than she would if the kids were not allowed to eat all the cookies in one go. Now if dad and mom are out of work, guess what? The kids do without cookies for awhile. Mom sense is the same thing as common sense and common sense in Jacksonville during recent years has been replaced with pipe dreams and grand plans, many of which are the result of political agendas and power players.
Respectfully, and I say this respectfully. Jacksonville has got to fix it's financial mess before we can go out and play. People are not unwilling to pay taxes but they know their money has not been used wisely. Trust is shattered and the only way to change that is to show the taxpayers that not only are their assets used wisely but that they are used honestly and well. That has not been what has always happened. Not by a longshot.
I believe it is inaccurate to state that Mike Hogan has no vision. He sees alot of wonderful things for Jacksonville in our future. He want's good things, new ideas and prosperity, but has the common sense to understand that you have to be able to afford the changes you want. I wonder how many people making the assertion he has no vision have even met the man? What Hogan gets, is that like the most everyday of citizens, you can't spend what you don't have and if you have abused your budget and spent poorly over the years, to continue to throw money in your checking account to waste it again is just unwise.
He wants to fix what is broken, not just patch it up. Before you can paint the house a pretty color you better make sure the foundation is strong or you have not only wasted your time and money but the place you live is going down hill while you throw money at it. It has "not" worked. Time to regroup.
People want specifics now. Tell us, tell us, tell us how you will fix it? What will you do? Specifics please? We need jobs, we have education problems, the JEA is breaking us, the transportation sucks, etc. etc. etc. The real truth of the matter is that any statments about how any candidate hopes to make things better are based upon assumptions. The only way to have a good and accurate idea about how to fix current problem is to stop adding to them, get inside them and fix what is wrong. To do that right now we need someone who is experienced in our local government, who is not outside of the politcal loop and knows how this city and its many agencies function. Alvin Brown has great soundbites, is a quick study and says what people want to hear, but he does not have the real experience and understanding of city functions to carry out all the promises and ideas on the evergrowing list that has beconme his platform and we don't have time for him to learn. On another note, people need to put aside the notions that Alvin Brown will come to City Hall without his own attachements to members the the broad GOB system in Jacksonville. Currently, beyond funds given him through some curious channels in the state and local Democrat party, he is being groomed by a handful of folks who are long time members of the GOB nifty fifty group currently known as the Civic Council. This is where he is now seeking money and influence. Brown is an effective speaker whose Federal skills have made him good at knowing the proper buzz words to excite people. But his Federal job in a HUD agency over a decade ago does not give him the needed skills to deal with the problems Jacksonville currently faces. It's a matter of real experience. One of the best analogies is one we have all heard before. If you need heart surgery, you don't have it done by the lady in the front office who spent years shuffling paperwork that has medical terms on them. You go to the surgeon who knows not only how the heart works but how the rest of bodies systems support that heart. Federal HUD experience and being and enthusiastic speaker will not replace the nuts and bolt understanding Jacksonville needs in our next mayor.
Stamping "Paid" on tax receipts, and managing one small component of the city's bureaucacy does not equate to 'leading a city'. Hogan has no more demostrated genuine executive management ability than John Peyton, and we all know how that turned out.
QuoteThe real truth of the matter is that any statments about how any candidate hopes to make things better are based upon assumptions.
Does this also apply to statements that candidates make in regards to raising taxes? Yet another similiarity between Hogan and Peyton.
QuoteWhy not learn from someplace else's mistakes and achievements?
Only my opinion and I am in the minority here, but I do not want someone who cut their teeth learning at the expense of another local to come in and try and take that experience and paint it on the walls and streets of my city and call it "progress". Hey, if Brown feels connected to Jacksonville, GREAT, get involved, run for a city council gig, or get involved with local politics in other ways, but to come in and say, "I learned how to run a city from my years in Washington", it will not fly, especially after we endured 8 years with the Boy Wonder who had gone from no experience to mayor. Why would we want to do the same thing again?
Quote from: Lunican on April 14, 2011, 11:04:51 AM
I believe Cleveland had the same mentality. Their location could not be beat.
Yeah, and Rhyolite has better weather!
I have a vision for Jacksonville, we send all European descendants back to Europe, all African descendants back to Africa, all Asians back to Asia, finish blowing down the downtown, and make Jacksonville a State Park.
I might like Mike, some of us might even learn to love him, but how will I ever know? He won't debate, and he won't return my calls or come to a MJ meeting, so someone tell me why I would like him?OCKLAWAHA
vic, do more homework. The skills are far beyond a stamp pad. ;D Hogan is not Peyton. You cannot measure the actions of one by another although I understand the basis of your worry. How do we know any politician will do what they promise? Answer, we don't know for sure until they are in office and the way to change what we don't like is to engage in the process and vote.
QuoteHe won't debate, and he won't return my calls or come to a MJ meeting, so someone tell me why I would like him?
Did you at least say the MAGIC WORD? ::)
If Brown has manged a budget 300-400% larger than Jacksonville's, I would say he 'cut his teeth' some time ago. How big is the budget Hogan has managed as Tax Collector.
The fact of the matter is, the ONLY rationale you have for supporting Hogan is that he has never lived outside of the city. I'm not sure why that would be considered a plus, but it is all you have.
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 14, 2011, 01:37:48 PM
vic, do more homework. The skills are far beyond a stamp pad. ;D Hogan is not Peyton. You cannot measure the actions of one by another although I understand the basis of your worry. How do we know any politician will do what they promise? Answer, we don't know for sure until they are in office and the way to change what we don't like is to engage in the process and vote.
To be fair, I visited one of the tax offices to renew my car registration, and found the process incredibly efficient. The facility even included the robot voice from the Jetson's calling out numbers and windows. :D
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 14, 2011, 01:37:48 PM
How do we know any politician will do what they promise? Answer, we don't know for sure until they are in office and the way to change what we don't like is to engage in the process and vote.
Well, wouldn't you say the the people and organizations that a candidate aligns himself with, and his rhetoric are the only viable indicators pre-election?
Therefore, in Hogan's case, we have Tea Party people and Tea Party ideas.
There is a debate between him and Alvin tomorrow at 11:30 AM
First Coast Tiger Bay Club
www.fctigerbay.org
First Coast Tiger Bay Club Jacksonville
There is also a debate on News4Jax this month.
QuoteIf Brown has manged a budget 300-400% larger than Jacksonville's, I would say he 'cut his teeth' some time ago. How big is the budget Hogan has managed as Tax Collector.
Why is it always about SIZE???
Fact of the matter is that one candidate has local experience and the other does not. Experience in Jacksonville is the issue. If I were Hogan I would make it one of THE central issues. If I was Brown, I would get Ray Nagin or some of the people I worked with in NOLA to speak to my experiences to counter that as an issue. Brown may walk on water somewhere else, but he needs to tie that to Jacksonville somehow.
Vic. Ultimately we will each make our own choices about candidates based upon our views and our internal measure of those we are considering for office. Alvins experience in a HUD office over a dozen years ago in the 1990's, in a Federal office has nothing at all to do with local city functions. Very different skill sets. An honorary position at JU doesn't amount to much on a resume weak on local experience.
Quote from: vicupstate on April 14, 2011, 01:44:35 PM
If Brown has manged a budget 300-400% larger than Jacksonville's, I would say he 'cut his teeth' some time ago. How big is the budget Hogan has managed as Tax Collector.
The fact of the matter is, the ONLY rationale you have for supporting Hogan is that he has never lived outside of the city. I'm not sure why that would be considered a plus, but it is all you have.
Thank you, vicupstate... We act like Alvin Brown was working with Monopoly money or something. We act like his work outside of Jacksonville does not count as experience. Why should it not be relevant that he helped to turn Harlem around (24% to 8% unemployment). If he can help one of the most depressed areas in the nation, why would we not ask him to do the same in Jacksonville?
Furthermore, it is not fair to compare Alvin Brown to John Peyton. Alvin Brown completed post graduate studies at Harvard University Kennedy School of Government. It is this kind of knowledge that sets Alvin Brown apart from Mike Hogan. Like I said earlier, it does us all a disservice to treat Alvin Brown like he is some carpetbagger. Did we force Rick Scott (not even a Florida native) to work his way through Florida politics? After all, he is coming to town to show his support for Mike Hogan. Either we think that someone should make their bones in the area or we don't.
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 14, 2011, 09:46:20 AM
It won't be bad under Hogan. Jacksonville will grow a little and be about the same when he leaves as it was when he took office. Unless we lose the Jags. Alvin is a chance for real improvement.
[/quot
It wont be bad?...it's be worse...the wealthy of this city will continue to see huge tax breaks while those of us that actually work for a living will suffer even more than we have already..when are you people going to understand that a weathy man "cannot" understand the average guy on the street..it's impossible. This man is kissing the ass of every millionaire in this city and his actions will do nothing but bring more wealth to the weatly and less for those that are'nt...just like the fucking republicans do everywhere...cut taxes to defund the whole and make inner loopholes for the rich boys...
Why is it seen as a liability for Alvin Brown to have worked with the federal government or to have worked to help other cities? This is the mirror image of the election in which a rich kid with no experience defeated a sitting sheriff who had strong ties to the community. We seem to be changing the rules as we go along.
And we keep hearing about Hogan being BFFs with the corrupt power brokers in Tallahassee. Wow, that's such an asset.
How about someone with Federal experience who can help return some of our hard-earned tax money back to Jacksonville from the Federal kitty? And who knows what to do with it and how to leverage it. Gosh, that would be nice.
Quote from: cityimrov on April 14, 2011, 10:57:51 AM
We're right between Georgia and Florida
Maybe this has been the problem all along. Perhaps Jacksonville should become part of one or the other.
We are going to have to face facts about the double standard in state and local politics. We willingly hand the mayor's office to someone who ran a chain of gas stations at best, but we go into full on panic when we have a candidate who has an MBA and federal government experience from another political party who is running for mayor.
Quote from: stephendare on April 14, 2011, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 14, 2011, 01:50:40 PM
QuoteIf Brown has manged a budget 300-400% larger than Jacksonville's, I would say he 'cut his teeth' some time ago. How big is the budget Hogan has managed as Tax Collector.
Why is it always about SIZE???
Fact of the matter is that one candidate has local experience and the other does not. Experience in Jacksonville is the issue. If I were Hogan I would make it one of THE central issues. If I was Brown, I would get Ray Nagin or some of the people I worked with in NOLA to speak to my experiences to counter that as an issue. Brown may walk on water somewhere else, but he needs to tie that to Jacksonville somehow.
Because the magical successes that have been made manifest in Jacksonville are something to brag on?
The worst public transit system of any large city in america, one of the worst unemployment situations in the country, a historically destroyed downtown, a failing school system, and one of the lowest per capita incomes in the country?
Well I don't know about you, but maybe its time to change the water in the tank there, bucko!
But, stephendare, the local insiders have done such an awesome job with our city. Only they will know how to keep up the good work, right?
Quote from: stephendare on April 14, 2011, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 14, 2011, 01:50:40 PM
Why is it always about SIZE???
Fact of the matter is that one candidate has local experience and the other does not. Experience in Jacksonville is the issue. If I were Hogan I would make it one of THE central issues. If I was Brown, I would get Ray Nagin or some of the people I worked with in NOLA to speak to my experiences to counter that as an issue. Brown may walk on water somewhere else, but he needs to tie that to Jacksonville somehow.
Because the magical successes that have been made manifest in Jacksonville are something to brag on?
The worst public transit system of any large city in america, one of the worst unemployment situations in the country, a historically destroyed downtown, a failing school system, and one of the lowest per capita incomes in the country?
Well I don't know about you, but maybe its time to change the water in the tank there, bucko!
+1!
So the guy has local experience? He also has horrible, ideological, knee-jerk policy that doesn't even have anything to do with the city of Jacksonville. I'll take the guy with less local experience (but more and higher quality experience overall) and a good plan over the political hack who's never left town and is trying to slip into city hall unnoticed.
Why the concern in this election about where a candidate was born? Tanzler, Austin and Delaney were all born in other states and it did not seem to matter.
I say get rid of the city lobbyists, they suck at acquiring funds from the state and the feds. What do we have to show for? these bench warming lobbyists have done nothing.
And if you want to make cuts in the budjet, might as well get rid of traffic lights. Hell no one obeys them anyway.
Quote from: Old Jim on April 14, 2011, 02:41:55 PM
Why the concern in this election about where a candidate was born? Tanzler, Austin and Delaney were all born in other states and it did not seem to matter.
That's why they were good mayors. They're not native born Floridiots. We need people from up north or out west to run the city. The could get the job done!
Speaking as one of those native born Floridians, get lost
Quote from: Jaxson on April 14, 2011, 02:11:15 PM
Quote from: stephendare on April 14, 2011, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 14, 2011, 01:50:40 PM
QuoteIf Brown has manged a budget 300-400% larger than Jacksonville's, I would say he 'cut his teeth' some time ago. How big is the budget Hogan has managed as Tax Collector.
Why is it always about SIZE???
Fact of the matter is that one candidate has local experience and the other does not. Experience in Jacksonville is the issue. If I were Hogan I would make it one of THE central issues. If I was Brown, I would get Ray Nagin or some of the people I worked with in NOLA to speak to my experiences to counter that as an issue. Brown may walk on water somewhere else, but he needs to tie that to Jacksonville somehow.
What is all this talk of tax breaks to the rich...maybe they are the folks that truly have earned Republican tax breaks ::)
Because the magical successes that have been made manifest in Jacksonville are something to brag on?
The worst public transit system of any large city in america, one of the worst unemployment situations in the country, a historically destroyed downtown, a failing school system, and one of the lowest per capita incomes in the country?
Well I don't know about you, but maybe its time to change the water in the tank there, bucko!
But, stephendare, the local insiders have done such an awesome job with our city. Only they will know how to keep up the good work, right?
Haydon Burns was also born in another state.
It cracks me up to hear people complaining that Alvin could only balence a budget or manage his agenda if it is in a different area code. Try again.
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 14, 2011, 03:49:43 PM
It cracks me up to hear people complaining that Alvin could only balence a budget or manage his agenda if it is in a different area code. Try again.
Because, of course, New Orleans and New York use different currencies and their successes are not applicable to a city such as ours.
In fairness , I do not expect to see downtown restored, rail , or extensions of skyway or really, much of any forward movement under Hogan. and that is not to say that Alvin Brown is going to turn out to be the Messiah of Mayors ,either.
There is no doubt ,some cuts could and should be made. But budget cuts like he is proposing sure sounds hauntingly like our Governor and is a bit ...no a bunch , over the top.
Mr Hogan reminds me of way back when "John Boy" first burst on the local scene! Run the City like a bussiness................yeah.............I see just where that has got us today! Gee whiz! Not sure that Mr Hogan can do any better or differently. If it's the same old same old, the movers and shakers get their normal cut off of the top then the rest of us will be just footing the bill like usual! Not good for anyone at the bottom of the food chain like must of us!
But um...we wont even have hotdog stands on the Main Street Bridge.. With budget cuts like that, we may have to close the Bridge and row-boat across to downtown.
Quote from: Timkin on April 14, 2011, 06:41:09 PM
we may have to close the Bridge and row-boat across to downtown.
That sounds like a good plan!
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 14, 2011, 08:14:38 AM
At lease he can call on some EXPERIENCE as the Tax Collector in the Yates Building, which houses other city offices, for some ideas on cutting expenses in the city. Poor Alvin Brown has no such experience.
look into what happened to the budget of the tax collectors office under Hogan's watch and get back to me
Um yeah about that... Driver's license prices tripled.. Registration prices tripled , tag renewals tripled.. the Tax Collectors offices got all kinds of upgrades (and some new locations) and WE the taxpayers , paid for all of that . Thank you Mr. Hogan (NOT)
The same folks who complain about absolute power being a corrupting force in society are the same ones who guzzle the Kool-Aid of one political party and their claims that they have all of the solutions. We have tried it their way and former Governor Bob Graham has written as much in the St. Petersburg Times recently. We keep giving more power to one party in our state and yet things are not improving. Why? I fear that we are in for another four years of stagnation and decline if we keep letting one party just run amok with our trust, our money and our future.
Agreed ! + 1000
Quote from: Timkin on April 14, 2011, 09:38:47 PM
Um yeah about that... Driver's license prices tripled.. Registration prices tripled , tag renewals tripled.. the Tax Collectors offices got all kinds of upgrades (and some new locations) and WE the taxpayers , paid for all of that . Thank you Mr. Hogan (NOT)
While I'm all for a good exaggeration, all of the state fees increased on their own, but his office did charge a service fee to use thier counter for state transactions. So based on a nominal $2 service fee (some were more, some were only a buck) if his amount of state transactions increase to +400k, that sounds like an +$800k increase in profits. Where did they go?
agreed...the fees went up, but that is the revenue side...his office's budget went up by about 50% over 8 years...someone (mtrain) please explain?
Well they increased a hell of alot
Quoteagreed...the fees went up, but that is the revenue side...his office's budget went up by about 50% over 8 years...someone (mtrain) please explain?
Can't explain it. Even in complete Right-Wing Politici - if you increase the revenue and streamline the process, the overall budget should decline.
Guess it didn't? I wonder why not? I have an opinion, who doesn't, but you provided additional revenue to your department and decided that since your department was bringing in all this money, it should be budgeted more. Am I close? The more money a department makes, then the more money a department needs to operate the next year.
I consider myself a conservative, but that also means, IMO, profitting from your ventures, banking the money you make for a rainy day and legislating rain out of Mother Nature. You should always have a nice cushion that you'll never need.
Quotelook into what happened to the budget of the tax collectors office under Hogan's watch and get back to me
TUFSU - Why not get off your duff and get some facts together on what Brown has done locally. Right or wrong in your mind, Hogan has more local experience. Show me I am wrong, dig up the facts on Brown and how he has, again, either right or wrong, affected citizens of Jacksonville.
Stop making this a referendum on whether to vote for Hogan or vote against Hogan. Show us that Brown is more than a big ball of hot air.
I believe the "outsiderness" of Brown will hurt him as he seems reluctant to speak up and tell us his ideas. Vague on purpose due to ignorance of the territory isn't going to help him. Clinton isn't going to help here in Jax either.
On the other hand, Mike Hogan, mentioned a "miracle mile" or some such for downtown, then went silent and unapproachable.
What are we to calculate from this? Mike? Alvin? You silence is killing us.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2011, 08:49:37 AM
Quotelook into what happened to the budget of the tax collectors office under Hogan's watch and get back to me
TUFSU - Why not get off your duff and get some facts together on what Brown has done locally. Right or wrong in your mind, Hogan has more local experience. Show me I am wrong, dig up the facts on Brown and how he has, again, either right or wrong, affected citizens of Jacksonville.
Stop making this a referendum on whether to vote for Hogan or vote against Hogan. Show us that Brown is more than a big ball of hot air.
Nat Glover had more local experience than John Peyton did and who ended up getting elected? Why does local experience all of the sudden matter now? Just askin'! It's just disgusting how we change our rules and standards when it is convenient...
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2011, 08:49:37 AM
Stop making this a referendum on whether to vote for Hogan or vote against Hogan. Show us that Brown is more than a big ball of hot air.
why? That is eaxtly what this is....
Personally, I look at candidates based on whether their philosophies/platform are simimlar to mine...in that Alvin beast Hogan hands down.
Keep in mind that someone with little experience can surround himself with those who have more.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 15, 2011, 09:54:11 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2011, 08:49:37 AM
Stop making this a referendum on whether to vote for Hogan or vote against Hogan. Show us that Brown is more than a big ball of hot air.
why? That is eaxtly what this is....
Personally, I look at candidates based on whether their philosophies/platform are simimlar to mine...in that Alvin beast Hogan hands down.
Keep in mind that someone with little experience can surround himself with those who have more.
If Alvin is such a non-entity as some claim, it is bound to be a referendum on Hogan. Besides, if anyone wants to know more about Brown, they can learn more in the upcoming series of debates. Oh, I forgot. Hogan won't agree to more televised debates. Exactly what is Hogan hiding if he is the new Messiah for Jax?
I am sure Alvin will hammer Hogan as the GOB insider who will be the same old same old in the debates.
Maybe Mr Hogan is using the same things that got Mr Scott elected? Say nothing, participate in no Forums or debates and just talk about how things will change when he assumes the post? Still looking for Mr Scott's pledge regarding "Jobs" to take place..............nothing so far that I have seen! I did not vote for Mr Scott but am trying to keep an open mind on what he is trying to do, time will tell.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2011, 08:49:37 AM
Quotelook into what happened to the budget of the tax collectors office under Hogan's watch and get back to me
TUFSU - Why not get off your duff and get some facts together on what Brown has done locally. Right or wrong in your mind, Hogan has more local experience. Show me I am wrong, dig up the facts on Brown and how he has, again, either right or wrong, affected citizens of Jacksonville.
Stop making this a referendum on whether to vote for Hogan or vote against Hogan. Show us that Brown is more than a big ball of hot air.
Equally ...why don't you spell out YOUR list of Hogan and what he has done. :). You throw every bit as much hot air around as you claim Alvin Brown does. So .. We're listening M........ You have the floor !
Quote from: Jumpinjack on April 14, 2011, 03:03:39 PM
Speaking as one of those native born Floridians, get lost
Can't, the state needs people like me to bring Florida into the 21st century. I don't mean to offend everyone here, just those who support the status Que. If you're well rounded, that comment wasn't directed toward you.
I apologize to anyone I may've offended.
Quote from: urbaknight on April 15, 2011, 03:29:31 PM
Quote from: Jumpinjack on April 14, 2011, 03:03:39 PM
Speaking as one of those native born Floridians, get lost
Can't, the state needs people like me to bring Florida into the 21st century. I don't mean to offend everyone here, just those who support the status Que. If you're well rounded, that comment wasn't directed toward you.
I apologize to anyone I may've offended.
I don't take offense. I know what you intended to say. I just think that this election has a lot of us with thin skins and walking on eggshells. Pardon the mixed metaphors!
This is the last place I want to make enemies. This is the only place of like minded people here in JAX. But I will try to be more constructive with my comments and insults.
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 15, 2011, 10:04:59 AM
I am sure Alvin will hammer Hogan as the GOB insider who will be the same old same old in the debates.
I liked Alvin's answers better but I would not say he "hammered" Hogan at Tiger Bay today. The amount of downtown questions surprised me.
QuoteThis is the last place I want to make enemies. This is the only place of like minded people here in JAX. But I will try to be more constructive with my comments and insults.
Whatever you do....don't be the first to drink the Kool-aid.
or the Schlitz
QuoteEqually ...why don't you spell out YOUR list of Hogan and what he has done. . You throw every bit as much hot air around as you claim Alvin Brown does. So .. We're listening M........ You have the floor !
Apparently you did not read the debate? Hogan said he sent his budget to the mayor, shaved 1.5 million off his budget for next year for his part. What has Brown done lately at JU?
Quoteor the Schlitz
Don't you have a building to go save? :o
Nope.. You're going to tear it down.. besides... the people here like me. You....not so much .
QuoteNope.. You're going to tear it down.. besides... the people here like me. You....not so much .
Hey I like you, if I did not have you, I would never have learned how to type on this dang blasted keyboard!
Really, M-train ? REALLY?
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 15, 2011, 08:49:37 AM
Quotelook into what happened to the budget of the tax collectors office under Hogan's watch and get back to me
TUFSU - Why not get off your duff and get some facts together on what Brown has done locally. Right or wrong in your mind, Hogan has more local experience. Show me I am wrong, dig up the facts on Brown and how he has, again, either right or wrong, affected citizens of Jacksonville.
Stop making this a referendum on whether to vote for Hogan or vote against Hogan. Show us that Brown is more than a big ball of hot air.
Browns experience is running Clinton jobs program. While it was a federal program based out of D.C. It dealt with a budget of over $4 billion such that it dwarfs the cities budget. Hogans local experience is greater than Browns, in the same breath Browns national experience is greater than Hogan. This is not a bag of hot air. Its impressive credentials to everyone here, as the MJ poll reveals, and yes the poll of very little use realistically, but it does note that a majority here believe in Brown. Most of which have been brought over from the Moran campaign.
If you still believe that "Brown is a bag of hot air" you are not making any headway against the forum. The forum overwhelmingly believes in Brown.
The thread itself IS a referendum on Hogan.... for and against. That's the story itself... Mike Hogans budget proposal... for or against!
It is apparent that 'hot air' to some people happens to be facts that do not align with their rabid devotion for the Good Ol' Boy network!
Speaking of the good ol boy network, I got a flyer to vote for Dick Kravitz for tax collector. We can't give the job to Corrigan. If Corrigan wins, God forbid, I predict that he'll be mayor in 8 years, right after Hogan. This is the path that Hogan is currently taken, from councilman to tax collector and now possibly mayor! The city cannot withstand 24 consecutive years of shitty mayors!
Vote against Corrigan for tax collector!
Vote against Hogan for mayor!
Mark my words, If Corrigan becomes tax collector, he will succeed Hopgan as mayor in 8 years!
QuoteVote against Corrigan for tax collector!
Finally a voice of reason! Corrigan is dead wood, has been for 8 years as the head of district 14. Running on his name with no office but that of which he has been in for 8 years. Finally a political viewpoint I agree with.
HOLY SCHLITZ! M-TRAIN agrees! Film at 11
QuoteHOLY SCHLITZ! M-TRAIN agrees! Film at 11
Yes, it is rare, but not impossible.
;)
We certainly need real improvement. We don't want to elect a mayor who will just muddle through the years and accomplish nothing. Alvin Brown is the best choice for Jacksonville. Brown is passionate about this city's future.
Thank heavens for term limits! Got Corrigan out of office and two really good candidates to replace him.
Just got back from the Supervisor of Elections Office where we voted and am still basking in the warm, smug glow.
And for god's sake please don't elect him into the Tax Collector's office .. :/
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 03, 2011, 03:24:00 PM
Thank heavens for term limits! Got Corrigan out of office and two really good candidates to replace him.
No joke, right? I'd like to know one good thing he did for the West side while in office. Or ANY part of District 14, for that matter.
Quote from: TimkinAnd for god's sake, please don't elect him into the Tax Collector's office
Oh gods, that would just be criminal.
criminaler ( ;) ) things have happened :D
Like I said, if Corrigan wins, I predict he'll make a run for mayor in eight years! And the anti urban rednecks will just eat him up and love every bite of crap he shovels down our throats.
Quote from: vicupstate on April 14, 2011, 09:52:42 AM
If he thinks he is going to save money by cutting out lobbying, he doesn't know much about politics outside of the Jax GOB system.
Losing one grant that a lobbyist could have secured, can easily pay for the lobbyist's cost for a decade. Instead that grant will go somewhere else.
Penny wise, dollar foolish.
I concur. He's advocating a cut of $300K. It sounds more like a personal vendetta bent on eliminating one specific position.
Quote from: Old Jim on April 14, 2011, 02:41:55 PM
Why the concern in this election about where a candidate was born? Tanzler, Austin and Delaney were all born in other states and it did not seem to matter.
Aren't those all of Jacksonvilles good mayors??
I think some Godbold folks would differ
City is cutting positions all over the board. 30 positions were eliminated earlier this week at Planning. 20 Full time and 10 positions not yet filled. Of course the new mayor will be blamed when the old one did the cutting, but hey, welcome to city politics!
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 05, 2011, 06:26:25 PM
City is cutting positions all over the board. 30 positions were eliminated earlier this week at Planning. 20 Full time and 10 positions not yet filled.
Is there anyone in planning left? Did they just put those functions under another department, liking Parking enforcement?
From my understanding, the planning department was still staffed at a 2006 level but with a 2011 workload. Given the economic conditions and the sharp decline in private sector projects moving forward, it was bound to happen sooner or later.
Quote from: vicupstate on May 05, 2011, 07:33:21 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 05, 2011, 06:26:25 PM
City is cutting positions all over the board. 30 positions were eliminated earlier this week at Planning. 20 Full time and 10 positions not yet filled.
Is there anyone in planning left? Did they just put those functions under another department, liking Parking enforcement?
also keep in mind that the department includes planning, zoning, and development permitting
I agree with James S. I don't think a Hogan victory would be disastrous, but I think Brown has a better vision for long-term economic growth.
Quote from: BillM33 on May 09, 2011, 08:53:18 PM
I agree with James S. I don't think a Hogan victory would be disastrous, but I think Brown has a better vision for long-term economic growth.
I didn't think a Hogan victory would be disastrous either until last night. During the 11 o'clock news, a commercial for Hogan aired that slammed Alvin Brown for his support of downtown development. I remember the commercial's opening line was something like "Tired of politicians wasting taxpayer money on downtown projects?". It then went on to flash pictures of the Skyway and the Landing while talking about how Brown's stance to redevelop downtown was a waste.
I searched YouTube and Hogan's website to try to find the video but was unsuccessful. If anyone knows the commercial I am talking about and has a link to it, please post it. I would love to see it again. To me the commercial appeared to be a slap in the face to any resident living in or near downtown Jacksonville.
Hogan will tell you that campaigning and governing are two different things
Well they are , to someone like him. talk about two different things.. If he gets elected , lets see how many of his promises are kept .
WOW just seen mike hogan commerical about how downtown development will be waste of tax payers moneys. If this man gets elected, in fours years our DT will be a true ghost town. In 8 years, it will be non exsistant. I cant believe that. I understand that DT is not the only issue we have, but it should have some priority. I mean DT and the urban core is truely the actual city.
Well if you want at least 8 years of more of the same, then Hogan is the man to get it done.
Quote from: Timkin on May 09, 2011, 11:45:25 PM
Well if you want at least 8 years of more of the same, then Hogan is the man to get it done.
I know. That is why I case my ballot for Brown ;D
Downtown Ghosttown - Only thing left will be the FBC
Quote from: Jumpinjack on May 10, 2011, 07:29:10 AM
Downtown Ghosttown - Only thing left will be the FBC
And FBC would be just fine with that.
I saw the commercial too. Mike Hogan "cares about neighborhoods" instead of wasteful downtown developments was the message. What came to my mind right away was the Courthouse controversy. I missed the Landing visual, I guess.
It was squarely aimed at suburban Jacksonville folks who don't work downtown, don't care about downtown, and don't realize every great city has a great downtown.
Trouble is...Jacksonville has WAY to many of those.
I just hope this is a motivation for all who care about DT to get out and vote for Brown.
Don't worry rednecks, with Mike Hogan as your mayor, your outdated good ol boy country town will be safe. Hogan will not allow DownTown to thrive. Any and all modern initiatives to grow the city will be crushed! (said with sarcasm of course)
Quote
City is cutting positions all over the board. 30 positions were eliminated earlier this week at Planning. 20 Full time and 10 positions not yet filled.
And on Friday I heard of a number of positions let go from Victim Services & Mental/Behavioral. I think Victim Svcs is being cut entirely.
In the modern world, victims just aren't important enough to protect. And in the South, mental illness was never taken seriously, it is seen as an excuse and frowned upon.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on May 10, 2011, 01:04:49 PM
I saw the commercial too. Mike Hogan "cares about neighborhoods" instead of wasteful downtown developments was the message. What came to my mind right away was the Courthouse controversy. I missed the Landing visual, I guess.
you didn't miss the Landing...the commercial shows the skyway and courthouse....remembe the Landing is owned by ardent Hogan supporter Tony Sleiman
Quote from: BillM33 on May 09, 2011, 08:53:18 PM
I agree with James S. I don't think a Hogan victory would be disastrous, but I think Brown has a better vision for long-term economic growth.
I think a Hogan Victory would be tremendously disastrous.
yeah I would rather have ronald mcdonald win than Hogan
Beavis and Butthead.. wait .. if Hogan and Corrigan win , it pretty much would be an equal.
yeah but Beavis and Butthead were cool
Ronald McDonald is pretty cool too.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 10, 2011, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on May 10, 2011, 01:04:49 PM
I saw the commercial too. Mike Hogan "cares about neighborhoods" instead of wasteful downtown developments was the message. What came to my mind right away was the Courthouse controversy. I missed the Landing visual, I guess.
you didn't miss the Landing...the commercial shows the skyway and courthouse....remembe the Landing is owned by ardent Hogan supporter Tony Sleiman
Yeah but, Tony Sprawlman loves his stripmalls much more than the landing. I think he'd sacrifice the landing and continue to support Hogan.
Sprawlman... LOL.. Where do u guys dream up these hateful names ;) . We can demolish the landing AND all his stupid strip malls.