QuoteDelores Weaver now backs Brown for Jacksonville mayor
Posted: April 11, 2011 - 7:30pm
By Timothy J. Gibbons
A major Audrey Moran supporter, Delores Weaver, said Monday she’s supporting Alvin Brown in the race for Jacksonville’s mayor, although she hasn’t yet decided if that support would be financial.
Weaver and her husband, Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver, contributed at least $60,000 to the Moran election effort.
Weaver said she is backing Brown because his views are similar to Moran’s and because candidate Mike Hogan, a Republican, was too far right.
“I don’t think that Mike is in tune with any sort of vision,†she said.
On the other hand, even though Brown is a Democrat, he’s not a liberal, Weaver said, and has ideas that closely track Moran’s.
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-04-11/story/delores-weaver-now-backs-brown-jacksonville-mayor#ixzz1JGdy4RmE
Source: The Florida Times-Union - http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-04-11/story/delores-weaver-now-backs-brown-jacksonville-mayor
Howzabout that qualifier?
QuoteOn the other hand, even though Brown is a Democrat, he’s not a liberal, Weaver said, and has ideas that closely track Moran’s.
We southern conservatives need to move away from the idea that liberal = the devil.
That line really wasn't necessary... except that it was indispensable in our fair city.
Western democracies are a liberal concept.
You beat me to that quote buckethead.
On the other hand, even though Brown is a Democrat, he’s not a liberal, Weaver said, and has ideas that closely track Moran’s.
If Brown is not a liberal, why is the Democratic Party giving him money and touting his time working under Al Gore? He's not a liberal? What exactly does that mean I wonder? :D
Quote from: buckethead on April 11, 2011, 09:24:24 PM
Howzabout that qualifier?
QuoteOn the other hand, even though Brown is a Democrat, he’s not a liberal, Weaver said, and has ideas that closely track Moran’s.
We southern conservatives need to move away from the idea that liberal = the devil.
That line really wasn't necessary... except that it was indispensable in our fair city.
Western democracies are a liberal concept.
Well said!
its official, we have a real race!
What will Wayne do?? Will it be a house divided??
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 11, 2011, 09:30:26 PM
If Brown is not a liberal, why is the Democratic Party giving him money and touting his time working under Al Gore? He's not a liberal? What exactly does that mean I wonder? :D
Forget the D and R labels...people should note that Audrey is/was more liberal than Alvin
Political party should not matter at the local level Stephen, but in Jacksonville it still does, that's the reality. Of course Ms. Weaver can support who she chooses and I absolutely support her right to do so. I was amused, as was buckethead with the choice of words she used to describe Alvin. She states Alvin Brown is her next best choice and I believe she means that. I just don't see him as a good choice at this point in our city.
Mike Hogan does not need my endorsement to win the election for Mayor. He will be the next Mayor of Jacksonville. I seriously doubt that an endorsement by Delores or Audrey is going to help Brown all that much at this point and may cost Moran some credibility with the local Republican community, if and when she chose to run for another public office. While people who I consider friends and care about have indicated they will vote for Brown and had voted for Audrey, the reality is that Audrey came in third place and Brown has a very difficult uphill battle that short of a miracle places him in the position of loosing this race. If there was ever a chance for the Moran vision to take hold it was while Audrey was in the race. Brown is not Moran by any measure. Behind the scenes dealings which were engineered to get some financial support for Brown from the Civic Council a few days back did not go very well for him. I think a look at the next set of financial reports will give more insight into who is doing what with their support and money.
While I completely understand that there are those who will continue to think that Brown will beat the odds here and win the election, the politcal fabric and past voting habits of Jacksonville will make the realization of that next to impossible. Remember that Obama himself did not carry Duval and that was at the height of Democrat involvement and excitement. Shelton hit it out of the park with the piece you guys posted today and what happens with and to local Democrat candidates.
What I am more concerned with is where Jacksonvillle goes after the election. I worry that many who supported Audrey have flocked to Alvin Brown with a bunch of expectations that may not be in line with who the man is and what he can do for Jacksonville and when he loses, will be devastated once again as they were when Audrey lost. He is still very much an unknown to most of Jacksonville. Nat Glover had street cred and name recognition after years as Sheriff and lost his race for Mayor. I in fact voted for Nat when he ran against Peyton, because I felt he knew the community and city operations much better than John Peyton did. The substantial learning curve Peyton had as a newcomer horribly hindered his administration and he inherited a healthy budget and $35,000,000.00 overage in our budget balance. Brown would be coming in cold to this government at a very difficult time. Someone who knows how local government operates will be at a much greater advantage going forward. Brown is simply lacking the practical knowledge of local government this city needs at this juncture. It will take someone with an understanding of local politics and how our city government functions to get us back on track financially. Federal connections that may have been impressive in 1994 don't matter in 2011 Jacksonville, nevermind the fact that Federal funds will be much harder to come by today than 10 or 15 years ago. That alone takes any supposed advantage Alvin Brown may have with government at any level out of the mix, IMO.
goosd point Stephen...Diane says Alvin can't win, but Glorious could?
What, Diane, makes Mike Hogan the hands-down winner , to you and Glorious? I just have to hear this from your perspective .. please :)
Cmon :(
(http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/unbranded/s/unbranded-secret-santa-office-brown-nose.jpg)
At the end of the day, I am atleat happy they Brown is being supported. There is no way I see this city go to hell in hand basket again. If Hogan gets elected, this city will be stuck in its current stay for atleast four years. Thats depressing to even think about :o
Me too DD08. I do not know either man personally.. Whoever wins has a huge mess IMO on their hands. But Alvin just seems to me to want to accomplish so much more.
Guys, Glorious dropped out of the race last November. Her run is not relevant to the current race and I am just her friend not her campaign advisor any longer. LOL What Glorious does is her business and hers alone and should not be measured by me. She is her own woman. I supported her because of her vision and at a time she was the only Democrat of note on the ballot. She is also a sitting elected official with a hands on understanding of legislation and city operations that Alvin Brown could not touch. She would have hit the ground running but we always understood it would come down to numbers then, just as it will now. Part of any run for office is knowing when possible, becomes maybe and then not likely. Councilwoman Johnsons local experience and understanding made her a very attractive candidate. The November elections made it quite clear to me that there would not be a win for a Democrat woman in the race for mayor in 2011. When Alex Sink went down to Scott, inspite of her skills and funds, it was more than clear where public sentiment was. That was reinforced again when a fine candidate like Deb Gianolis lost her race. She would have been stellar for Florida. I knew Glorious could not win, not because she wasn't a good candidate, but because of political climate. I also thought that Audrey would probably not prevail either, which was sad because she really had done everything that people claim a good candidate should do. No one worked harder IMO.
Stephen, I am not looking for a job. LOL I like retirement. I have always been involved and engaged in Jacksonville, you know that from the Metjax days and from JOL. Many years gone by now. My thoughts and actions are based now as they always are, upon a good long and thoughful look at the question before me. In this case the race for Mayor. Your statement reminded me of one Steve
Diebenow made when he was working on the Peyton administration nearly eight years ago. I was talking to him about saving the old Brewster Hospital. He asked me what I wanted and I told him I wanted an important piece of history saved. Reggie Brown had told him I was looking to be given all the property in front of the LaVilla School fo the Arts. LOL That was a complete lie and fabrication that Diebenow himself would laugh about later. At the time my dear friend Glorious was a Republican as well. That did not hinder our ability to work toward positive resolution of several public issues.
The years of involvement in this city are infact what has me well in favor of Mike Hogans platform of financial reform in Jacksonville. There is much that people don't know that happens behind the scene's with our tax money and future that the general public is unaware of. It's not because people don't care because they do. It's because it is nearly impossible for the average citizen to follow the movements and actions of an entire city government. I have had the opportunity to speak with Mike Hogan now several times. I can tell you that not only is he competent, he is far more open and understanding than people come close to giving him credit for. I the core of my being I know that in order for Jacksonville to go forward into a sound future we must first deconstruct and debug our budget and city systems which are out of control in ways people cannot imagine. I embrace a wonderful, cultural, compassionate and exciting future for our city, but my years have also taught me that sometimes we have to pause and take stock of where we have been and where we are before we can move forward in a positive way.
Dreams and vision are crucial, but so is common sense and balance. What is before all of us is two to three years of rebuilding our finances and drafting a good solid plan for our future that is not only fun to talk about but a reality we can happily live.
Our "fiscal responsibility" has already delivered Jacksonville one of the most poorly funded & maintained park systems in the country, a school system considering dropping sports or going to a 4-day school week (after already dropping one high school class period), inadequate public transportation, reduction in trash collection & recycling, a largely vacant and decaying downtown, libraries closing or reducing hours, and unemployment & foreclosure rates that are far above national averages.
Jacksonville is in dire need of wisely reinvesting in itself. We need to attract the young, the innovative, and the entrepreneurs. And, they not only need to be attracted, they need to be welcomed as leaders. The things that historically made Jacksonville a beautiful city and an icon of commerce and culture need to be rediscovered and brought forward in a progressive way. Jacksonville's quality of life and competitiveness with its peer cities are at stake.
I don't see anything in Mike Hogan's platform of financial reform that gives me confidence in this regard.
Stephen, you have not changed and I understood completely what you were getting at. LOL I support Mike Hogan for Mayor because of his view of our city finances and his understanding of city operations. You will have to ask Glorious what she thinks and who she supports. There has been no discussion of jobs or position between myself, Glorious and Hogan. There are some long time Glorious friends and supporters (Movers and Shakers) that would love to see her remain a part of Jacksonville politics and have expressed that sentiment among themselves. Whether or not they will pursue their wishes is unknown to me. I am aware of the rumor going around that Councilwoman Johnson has been offered a job as Council Liason under Hogan. It has even gotten enough traction to be buzzing around City Hall. It is untrue, it is a rumor and I believe it finds it's origin through the wishful thinking of an old timer who loves Glorious dearly who is well meaning but off the mark.
Diane's whole argument seems to boil down to Mike's part of the GOB network that makes him the best choice.
I wonder also what make's her think Alvin Brown has no common sense and is out of balance.
Steve, that's just it. This city has not been fiscally responsible in the past. Politicians have said funding is used well in Jacksonville and that is patently untrue. We should be much further along in Jacksonville than we are. Our transparent budget is not really transparent. I know that a serious review and breakdown of where and how our money has been spent will be an eye opener. It may well be that taxes will have to be raised some day, but first this city has got to regain public trust. Debugging out budget process, purchasing practicies, procurement and bid processes are long overdue.
Recalling the stances taken on JOL, it seems the a bit of cynicism isn't unfounded.
One tends to look out for one's best interests.
I agree with Stephen that most of the more progressive/liberal posters here would welcome having both Diane and Glorious close to a Hogan administration. Full disclosure would ease the feeling of deceptiveness, but isn't always possible, I suppose.
In any case, Diane has stated she finds Hogan to be the better choice (remarkable in and of itself, judging by what I have read of her leanings elsewhere) and that is the sole basis for her supporting his candidacy.
Should we not take her word for it?
Jeffery,
I am not attempting to change the view of those who support Brown. I respect their right to do so and long ago understood that each of us must use their own judgement to pick a candidate. The reality in Jacksonville is there is a GOB system in every political circle which includes a couple of different circles in both the Democrat and Republican parties. That should not be news to people who have been following our politics for any period of time. Of course this is not exclusive to Jacksonville but happens at every level of Government. That is just the reality of where society is. Whether or not that changes remains to be seen. I don't think we will see that change in the next decade, but as the old power brokers age and retire that may change.
Jeffery,
I am not attempting to change the view of those who support Brown. I respect their right to do so and long ago understood that each of us must use their own judgement to pick a candidate. The reality in Jacksonville is there is a GOB system in every political circle which includes a couple of different circles in both the Democrat and Republican parties. In the
Dem camp there is even a Black GOB power structure. That should not be news to people who have been following our politics for any period of time. Of course this is not exclusive to Jacksonville but happens at every level of Government. That is just the reality of where society is. Whether or not that changes remains to be seen. I don't think we will see that change in the next decade, but as the old power brokers age it could. I hope I am here to see it, but if not, I hope that my sons will see that day.
So my first point was right but I still wonder why you insinuate that Alvin has no common sense and is out of Balance?
btw attempting to change people's view is what the market place of ideas is all about. So feel free.
Stephen, I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I was not privy to Mr. Hogans thinking back then. I do know that some of the discussion as of late has been way off base. One stubborn meme is this thing about Hogan not wanting the Jaguars. That is not true. What he voted against was the way the piece of legislation was drafted no the team. The legislation did not have the protections for taxpayers he thought it should. However he has publically stated his support for the Jaguars on many occasions as well as lauded the Weavers for their generosity in the community.. He sees them as an asset to Jacksonville. Another notions is that he does not embrace cultural activities. Not true. He knows and has told me personally how important the arts are to a thriving city. Another non truth is that he does not support local history or preservation. Not true at all. His family is one of the first in Duval and history here is paramount to him. Then there is this nonsense about not caring about the river or environment. He has already reached out to the office of the riverkeeper and asked to meet with various individuals associated with the effort to heal the St. Johns.
I get that it is easier to oppose a candidate that is painted in a negative fashion, but in many cases what is being promoted about Mr. Hogan is inaccurate. For instance, I have seen no one come forward with one of the innumerable stories of Mike Hogans personal efforts to feed the hungry, get clothing to the needy. Nor has there been mention of the many times he stood side by side with members of various charitable organizations to raise funding or him using his position in the community to get food, clothing and Christmas gifts for those in Jacksonville who needed it. Those stories are not going out because he is not bragging about them.
Yes he is the tax collector. That is his job. But he did not set the tax rate or decide the amounts to be collected. That was a function of past city administrations and legislatures. He did share with me during a conversation that it was the many notes and emails he recieved over the years included with tax payments that helped move him toward a run for office. He was listening and still is.
Jeffery, there was no insinuation regarding Brown or common sense. What I said and am saying is that he does not have the needed understanding of local government functions and processes that is needed in the next Mayor considering the sizable problems facing the city. It takes time to get one's head around how any business or government functions. Jacksonville is not in the position to wait for Alvin Brown to get up to speed on budget or related issues. It is a great advantage for someone going into local public office to have a serious understanding of how local government here is run. That along with being personally known to and by the people who are running the government is essential. If this were a place in Jacksonville history that was sound and prosperous, like the Delaney years, perhaps there would be time for someone like Alvin. We just don't have the time for him to get attuned to and educated to the way things happen locally at so desperate a time. Peyton came in cold the way Alvin would and the result was a two year learning curve. We simply don't have time for that now.
Assuming that Hogan DOES win , Glorious, in my opinion would be an asset to his administration.
But Stephen does make a huge point.. and that is Mike did get less than 40%..
Guess we will know soon
That's true Stephen and Alvin got less than 25% of the vote. Moran got less than 22% and Mullaney less than 16%. If we are going to look at percentages, the hope for Brown supporters is that he gets a substantial amount of votes that went to Moran. The majority of votes Mullaney got will go to Hogan. Moran, inspite of being more liberal in her appeal is still a Republican of record. Some people were comfortable voting Moran because regardless of anything else, she still had an R behind her name. Will Brown get all her votes? Very unlikely. Lets say her votes go half for Hogan and half for Brown. That puts Hogan at 60 plus percent of the vote. It's simple math along with state and local voting habits. Then add to that the fact that Ken Jefferson or the race for sheriff is not on the next ticket will and you have Brown struggling to hold onto his own votes as well as get some of Audreys.
Stephen, when I try and edit or "modify" a post because of spelling after initially entering one, it comes up on the site as a new post in a blue box. What am I doing wrong, other than forgetting to use the spell check to begin with? LOL
Check the financial reports when they come out Friday. That should be an indicator of what is to become of votes given to other candidates. John Peyton was against Hogan first over the police and fire and now because of his ideas about city finances. His daddy backed Mullaney, now Mullaney has put his support behind Hogan. I think the Peyton influence has become very weak through Johns time in office, his dads advanced age and the state of global economics.
Regardless of where this ends up, Diane I do hope you continue posting here. I know Glorious is busy but sure miss her.. Wish she would post as well.. Give her my best. I love both of you ,dearly !
Thanks Timkin. Glorious remains very busy with her remaining council term and her mother, who has had a good couple of weeks recently. Spoke with her earlier and her mom was out getting some sunshine. Good days are very welcome to Glorious. To say things are difficult in that regard would be an understatement.
Stephen has been generous in inviting me to post and share my thoughts. I just want to respect everyone's space here and at the same time only comment when I really feel strongly about a particular topic. I did want to get some clarity out to people regarding my views and position in the current mayor race.
Metrojacksonville does urban, tranportation and other planning issues at a level that I admire and support, but don't have alot to say about other than be engaged by the possibilities of the ideas discussed. Social and political issues I have a little more to say about. LOL I have also been doing my best to introduce the ideas on the Metrojacksonville main page to the Hogan camp and have found receptive ears. Over the years I have learned that the business of online discussion can be a particularly difficult one because exchanges here are minus vocal intonation and physical gestures. As a result, statements are often misread or responded to with emotions that were unintended and not part of what I was trying to say to begin with. Comes with the territory I tell myself. The smiley thingys don't make it much better. That is why I only post under my own name. I then hope that people will actually hear what I am saying the way I mean it and know I stand behind my words. Technology is the present and the future but for me it can never replace face to face discussion with online smiles. :) ;) ;D >:( :o LOL
I think you may be right about me hitting the quote button Stephen. I will take more care when clicking on changes.
:) thank you for sharing your thoughts , Diane.
I am not going to argue your logic Stephen because many of your points are valid and a result of our differing personal perspective on some issues, like the Peyton legacy.
All things are possible in the world of politics. I will just say that the Hogan campaign has not taken anything for granted and are working aggressively for votes in all areas. I personally just don't see any possible way for Alvin to gain the name recognition in a few short weeks that the Mike Hogan family has earned over the decades. The Moran name is also well known in Jacksonville. Brown is still mostly an unknown.
Thanks for your words Stephen. You posted faster than I did in my last response. :) I don't mind a spar now and then, but not all the time. Not anymore. LOL
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 12:15:00 AM
Stephen, I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I was not privy to Mr. Hogans thinking back then. I do know that some of the discussion as of late has been way off base. One stubborn meme is this thing about Hogan not wanting the Jaguars. That is not true. What he voted against was the way the piece of legislation was drafted no the team. The legislation did not have the protections for taxpayers he thought it should. However he has publically stated his support for the Jaguars on many occasions as well as lauded the Weavers for their generosity in the community.. He sees them as an asset to Jacksonville. Another notions is that he does not embrace cultural activities. Not true. He knows and has told me personally how important the arts are to a thriving city. Another non truth is that he does not support local history or preservation. Not true at all. His family is one of the first in Duval and history here is paramount to him. Then there is this nonsense about not caring about the river or environment. He has already reached out to the office of the riverkeeper and asked to meet with various individuals associated with the effort to heal the St. Johns.
I get that it is easier to oppose a candidate that is painted in a negative fashion, but in many cases what is being promoted about Mr. Hogan is inaccurate. For instance, I have seen no one come forward with one of the innumerable stories of Mike Hogans personal efforts to feed the hungry, get clothing to the needy. Nor has there been mention of the many times he stood side by side with members of various charitable organizations to raise funding or him using his position in the community to get food, clothing and Christmas gifts for those in Jacksonville who needed it. Those stories are not going out because he is not bragging about them.
Yes he is the tax collector. That is his job. But he did not set the tax rate or decide the amounts to be collected. That was a function of past city administrations and legislatures. He did share with me during a conversation that it was the many notes and emails he recieved over the years included with tax payments that helped move him toward a run for office. He was listening and still is.
Well aside from that one thing, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Quote from: stephendare on April 12, 2011, 01:04:58 AM
Moran's voters will reluctantly choose Alvin. Or they will stay home.
But Alvin's win is a big inspiration to his base.
If he reaches out to the southside, he wins.
I know several people (including me) who voted Moran because they thought she had the best chance of beating Hogan, but are now enthusiastically behind Alvin. I don't see any reluctance there.
Make downtown the issue, make downtown the issue. He'll lose the southside if he does this. Glover made downtown a major issue and lost to Peyton. As downtown loses more and more voters, since there are only a couple of thousand residents there, there are not enough critical masses to vote downtown. Only when it costs more to live/work in the burbs, will downtown come back into view, this is simple economics. We still have too much available land in Jacksonville.
This is exactly why I have believed for the past 3 years de-consolidation is needed to put this place back together.
Let the independent parts seek their own self-interest
Quote from: stephendare on April 12, 2011, 01:04:58 AM
The Gate interests are vast. They just are.
And John's time in office has solidified the Gate Empire, not weakened it.
The real wildcard in this election is whose voters stay home for the runoff.
I think Mullaney's older voters will go with mike. Most of them will stay home. There was a lot of ethnic diversity in Mullaney's support base, and Hogan's people are pretty off putting to that crowd. Will Hogan, for example, pull any of the filipino businessmen who supported Mullaney?
I dont think so. In fact, I know for a fact that at least three of his main supporters in the Filipino community are not voting Hogan.
Mullaney's younger voters will be divided, with the lion's share staying home.
The catholic conservatives will vote for Hogan.
But the students and children of the wealthy will vote Alvin.
Moran's voters will reluctantly choose Alvin. Or they will stay home.
But Alvin's win is a big inspiration to his base.
If he reaches out to the southside, he wins.
Isn't it great to have your vote predicted by association?
Well if it's any consolation, Stephen is usually a lot more accurate than any scientifically conducted poll I've seen.
That said, and I've told him this, Hogan unfortunately is the next mayor of Jacksonville. He gets the redneck vote.
QuoteHe gets the redneck vote.
Quite a slap in the face to our suburbs.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 12, 2011, 07:59:00 AM
QuoteHe gets the redneck vote.
Quite a slap in the face to our suburbs.
Maybe. I notice you didn't say 'untrue' though, lol...
QuoteMaybe. I notice you didn't say 'untrue' though, lol...
It does take all kinds of people to make the world go 'round, fo show!
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 12, 2011, 08:03:29 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 12, 2011, 07:59:00 AM
QuoteHe gets the redneck vote.
Quite a slap in the face to our suburbs.
Maybe. I notice you didn't say 'untrue' though, lol...
It's only a slap in the face to the suburbs if you make one of two assumptions:
1. That 'rednecks' only live in the suburbs. There are plenty of rednecks who live in the urban core.
2. That 'redneck' is some code word for 'suburb.' I do not think that the above poster was tagging all of Deermeadows or Baymeadows as white trash, but do believe that there are some good ol' boys who reside in the remaining rural sections of Duval County who would rather watch a Sex in the City marathon while supping on a Mai Tai (or Cosmopolitan) than put Alvin Brown in the mayor's office...
Well "redneck" is a bit more nuanced than just location...
There is often an excessively large pickup truck involved too.
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 12:56:31 AM
Check the financial reports when they come out Friday. That should be an indicator of what is to become of votes given to other candidates. John Peyton was against Hogan first over the police and fire and now because of his ideas about city finances. His daddy backed Mullaney, now Mullaney has put his support behind Hogan. I think the Peyton influence has become very weak through Johns time in office, his dads advanced age and the state of global economics.
why...clearly the candidates raising the most cash didn't win in the first race?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 12, 2011, 08:20:27 AM
Well "redneck" is a bit more nuanced than just location...
There is often an excessively large pickup truck involved too.
Amen, Chris. Perhaps a serious case of overcompensating? LOL!
You know I always suspected that. Until they came out with those chrome ball-sac's that hang from the trailer hitch, which became a huge fad here in Jacksonville in the mid-2000s. That kind of took the 'suspected' out of the equation. Lol...
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 01:31:53 AM
I am not going to argue your logic Stephen because many of your points are valid and a result of our differing personal perspective on some issues, like the Peyton legacy.
All things are possible in the world of politics. I will just say that the Hogan campaign has not taken anything for granted and are working aggressively for votes in all areas. I personally just don't see any possible way for Alvin to gain the name recognition in a few short weeks that the Mike Hogan family has earned over the decades. The Moran name is also well known in Jacksonville. Brown is still mostly an unknown.
Jacksonville has grown immensely in population in the past 10-12 years. Those who have moved to Jacksonville in that timeframe (me included) may not know Mike Hogan's qualifications to be Mayor other than how he engages the community during his pursuit of office. If he wishes to become Mayor, I think he should take every opportunity to engage in public dialogue and be available to answer questions about his vision for the city in a civic forum. At minimum, he owes it to the constituents that he will lead if elected.
He isn't going to do it. The least said the better for him. People will still go out and vote for him. Sad, but true. Maybe enough of the newbies to town will actually go out and vote. That may be enough to overcome the Westside and far Northside votes.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 12, 2011, 08:26:29 AM
You know I always suspected that. Until they came out with those chrome ball-sac's that hang from the trailer hitch, which became a huge fad here in Jacksonville in the mid-2000s. That kind of took the 'suspected' out of the equation. Lol...
Yeh,,,,,,about that,,,,,, What is the point of that ,any way.. "Mah truuuk has balllz" heheheheh
I want him to show up so we can all see that he supports the end and decline of our city...he and his party has made decisions that have screwed our city many times...the city should know him and the ills of those who support him....
Quote from: Timkin on April 12, 2011, 08:57:31 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 12, 2011, 08:26:29 AM
You know I always suspected that. Until they came out with those chrome ball-sac's that hang from the trailer hitch, which became a huge fad here in Jacksonville in the mid-2000s. That kind of took the 'suspected' out of the equation. Lol...
Yeh,,,,,,about that,,,,,, What is the point of that ,any way.. "Mah truuuk has balllz" heheheheh
Timkin, you are a Heineken in a Pabst Blue Ribbon world! And that's a good thing ; )
They also come in blue and reddd . Thanks Jaxon
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 01:23:19 AM
Thanks Timkin. Glorious remains very busy with her remaining council term and her mother, who has had a good couple of weeks recently. Spoke with her earlier and her mom was out getting some sunshine. Good days are very welcome to Glorious. To say things are difficult in that regard would be an understatement.
Stephen has been generous in inviting me to post and share my thoughts. I just want to respect everyone's space here and at the same time only comment when I really feel strongly about a particular topic. I did want to get some clarity out to people regarding my views and position in the current mayor race.
Metrojacksonville does urban, tranportation and other planning issues at a level that I admire and support, but don't have alot to say about other than be engaged by the possibilities of the ideas discussed. Social and political issues I have a little more to say about. LOL I have also been doing my best to introduce the ideas on the Metrojacksonville main page to the Hogan camp and have found receptive ears.
Hi Diane, back in 2004 I first looked into joining DWIN (Democratic Women Information Network), even though I do not live in Duval county ;)
I even announced my own candidacy at a women's event in Jacksonville.
And though I have seen a lot of "pragmatism" used as an excuse for Democrats to support an arch conservative candidate, I am truly shocked to see a DWIN member doing it.
The "pragmatism" worked out well in the case of Charlie Crist, because he truly had a listening ear. But there were signs he wasn't an arch conservative anyway, even during his candidacy for governor.
I did not vote for him in that election though, I voted for Rod Smith.
However when Charlie Crist ran for US Senator, I did vote for him.
I just don't see how the same can be said about arch conservative Hogan:
QuoteYou can tell a lot about mayoral candidates Mike Hogan and Alvin Brown by visiting their campaign websites.
This is where they are unfettered in saying what they want about themselves. What they choose to say first says something about their priorities.
Each of the websites has a section on issues. The following are the first four things listed by Hogan in that category.
- Taxes. Hogan says he will not support any tax increases or new fees. He also lays claim to a "proven tax-cutting record" while he was in the Legislature.
- Second amendment. Hogan says he fought on behalf of gun owners, opposing legislation that would regulate gun shows and supporting a bill prohibiting state and local governments from suing gun manufacturers. He touts an "A" rating from the National Rifle Association.
- Illegal immigration. Hogan says his efforts as tax collector "to root out fraud and abuse have resulted in the arrest of illegal aliens with criminal records who were trying to obtain driver's licenses." He pledges to continue his efforts as mayor.
- Protecting the sanctity of life. Hogan says he "firmly believes in protecting the life of the unborn" and that he "will never back down from his commitment to compassionately stand for the sanctity of life."
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400601/ron-littlepage/2011-04-02/compare-alvin-brown-and-mike-hogan-check-websites
I guess Shelton Hull is right about lack of Democratic leadership support for Democratic candidates ::)
I personally find that shameful.
Of course I would have voted for Audrey Moran if I lived in Duval, but now that she is no longer in the race........there is only one choice left. Plain and simple.
Voting for a moderate Republican for reasons of pragmatism is a whole lot different than voting for an arch conservative.
Again, I am truly shocked, and I hope you hear from fellow DWIN members.
I guess your loyalty to Glorious and her political ambitions outweigh getting a change of direction going in Jacksonville, to make Jacksonville a destination, not just a pass-through.
Wayne Weaver said on the WOKV morning news program that he was throwing in with Hogan.
Can't find anything in print (real or virtual) yet to corroborate that.
Well Faye, I think the world of both Glorious and Diane... I just happen not to agree with their choice for Mayor.
One statement I found disturbing was that Mike Hogan is Jacksonville's next Mayor. It was like ..end of discussion, don't even bother to go to the polls , its not going to do any good.. And ... she may be right
HOWEVER...... I ll take my chances... Im still going to be at the polls and still going to vote Alvin.
I'm with you, Tim. I'm not going to give up on Jacksonville just because people assure me that Hogan will be elected. He might be. But not without a hell of a fight on my end. If he's elected, I'll deal with that unfortunate reality on May 18. But for now, I'm doing everything possible for Alvin Brown.
Quote from: Timkin on April 12, 2011, 09:37:16 AM
Well Faye, I think the world of both Glorious and Diane... I just happen not to agree with their choice for Mayor.
One statement I found disturbing was that Mike Hogan is Jacksonville's next Mayor. It was like ..end of discussion, don't even bother to go to the polls , its not going to do any good.. And ... she may be right
HOWEVER...... I ll take my chances... Im still going to be at the polls and still going to vote Alvin.
I have great respect for Diane and Glorious, but am dismayed with the attitude that we all have to just accept a Hogan victory. This dismisses the whole point of having an election and gives rise to a serious problem in local politics. The dearth of opposition to our leaders creates a mentaility in our elected officials that they have some mandate that permits them to be as ruthless (or crooked) as they want. Why? Because they're the only game in town. I refuse to play along!
Well-Put Jaxson. That is why it is crucial this time around to prove them wrong. I do NOT want to accept a Hogan victory.. My gut instinct is this will give us 4 more years of the same as before..
I agree with her that there has to be accountability in the Mayor's office.... and I think Brown can do that JUST AS WELL !
I don't see it happening but one thing that would help Mr Brown is if Ms Weaver does a tour of the country clubs in town...sponsoring a talk by Mr Brown at each club to support him....think they'll ever happen.....probably not a chance but is a good idea since most of the things that change our city is done behind private club doors and not in the hall of the city.. there and the golf club...i wonder how many rounds of gold he's going to play at the local clubs maybe drumming up some business...are there any club members out there willing to sponcer?
Is Delores and Wayne married? If so, why are you guys calling her Miss?
-Josh
Quote from: wsansewjs on April 12, 2011, 11:08:43 AM
Is Delores and Wayne married? If so, why are you guys calling her Miss?
-Josh
It's a southern thing i guess...i call all women ms...or missy if they are sexy...maybe a family thing i don't know....it is used in the most respect for women...
Hogan is appealing to his base, which means being completely regressive. He may not be as politically bad as we all think, but history is not on his side. Someway and somehow, Republicans have convinced much of the population that taxes are evil, progress is the result of the devil and the president is Satan. All a Republican candidate has to say is, "I'm against raising taxes," or, " I will cut taxes," and he or she gets another thousand votes. These, in my opinion, are criminally fraudulent statements. I agree that taxes should only be raised when absolutely necessary, but cutting them, especially in the current recession is ridiculous. And yes there has to be controlled spending, but you can't cut taxes and ever expect to break even or better yet have a surplus. Just look at what Bush and Crist did to Florida in the last 12 years. Yeah they cut taxes and refunded the surplus, but the expense has been devastating to our state and city. (And please note I said "cutting taxes," not raising them.)
Mr. Hogan will not go into office and be a different mayor than what he is preaching to his base. He will NOT improve Jacksonville. Remember Peyton promised to run the city like a business, (a joke to me by the way) and like a business the city needed capital to run. (Unless of course you want 4 to 8 years of decay.) But instead of raising taxes when money was needed, the solution was to fee us to death. IT'S THE SAME THING, JUST A DIFFERENT NAME.
So even if he has good intentions for the city, he will have to pander to his base. If not he will not only damage himself, but the future party candidates. And if anyone is paying attention most of his party will abandon their ideology for political solidarity.
Here we go:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-04-11/story/wayne-weaver-backs-hogan-mayor-after-delores-weaver-picks-brown
Quote
Wayne Weaver backs Hogan for mayor after Delores Weaver picks Brown
Both one-time Audrey Moran supporters, their political split is not unusual
Posted: April 11, 2011 - 7:30pm
By Jim Schoettler, Timothy J. Gibbons
They both were once with Audrey. Now Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver is with Republican Mike Hogan for Jacksonville mayor, while his wife, Delores, is supporting Democrat Alvin Brown.
Wayne Weaver, a Republican, told The Times-Union this morning that he met with Hogan at Hogan’s request for more than an hour last week. He said they talked about everything from improving Downtown to supporting education.
Weaver said he appreciated Hogan's Republican values. He said he came away satisfied Hogan would hire a good staff and be good leader and ambassador for the city.
“I wouldn’t be supporting him if I didn’t believe that,†Weaver said. “Delores and I are committed to this city. It has to move forward to continue to be a great city.â€
Along with his vote, Weaver said he has donated to the Hogan campaign, though he declined to say how much. Weaver and his wife contributed at least $60,000 to the Moran election effort.
Weaver said it is not unusual for there to be a friendly spousal split with his wife when it comes to supporting political candidates. He said the couple discussed both mayoral candidates, though he declined to detail those talks. He described his wife as an independent.
“I'll just say it's not the first time," Weaver said. "She really has connected with Alvin."
Delores Weaver told The Times-Union Monday she hasn't yet decided if her support for Brown would be financial. Weaver said she is backing Brown because his views are similar to Moran's.
"From the night of Audrey Moran's concession, I knew that I could never vote for Mike Hogan, who is just too, too, too far right for me," Weaver said.
On the other hand, even though Brown is a Democrat, he's not a liberal, she said, and has ideas that closely track those of Moran, who is a Republican. She said she still believes Moran would have been the better mayor.
Although the Times-Union reported Sunday that the Weavers were not committed to candidates, she said Monday she had supported Brown since the night Moran finished third, while her husband said his meeting with Hogan swayed him. Wayne Weaver declined to comment until today.
One major issue for both: the candidates' views on what should be done with downtown. Brown supports the re-creation of a downtown development authority; Wayne Weaver said he appreciated Hogan's push for private/public partnerships to improve the area.
Hogan was not immediately available to comment. Brown said he was excited to have Delores Weaver's support.
"She loves this city and cares about its future," he said.
Looks like a re-branding of the headline from the original story though.
Color me disappointed. Is Wayne hedging his bets, just voting for the R or really believe Mr. Hogan is the best for the job? Really. Lost some respect today for Mr. Weaver today.
I was perfectly happy to cross the partisan line thinking Audrey was best for this city.
Honestly Mr. Weaver your new candidate doesn't even have the spine to show up for more than what his advisers view as the bare minimum of public debates. When he does show he is a dear in the headlights out of his depth.
Disclaimer: I will always love Mr. Weaver as the most benevolent citizen this town has ever had. I thank him very much for bringing the Jags here.
Seems like the GOB network is still alive and well :(
Quote from: Doctor_K on April 12, 2011, 12:41:16 PM
Looks like a re-branding of the headline from the original story though.
Does that make you really suspicious? Look at the overall perspective. Hogan is playing a game of waiting then snatching attention. If Brown or a supporter of Brown goes first, Hogan or a supporter of Hogan would come in and sugarcoat it with their ideal to influence a bubble of "HOGAN EVERYWHERE" , or the impression that Hogan is MORE popular or BIGGER than Brown is.
-Josh
There is something fishy about this election :(
It sounds to me like Hogan is trying to recruit as many GOB's as possible. Maybe Wayne is aware of this, so he's trying to build leverage with Hogan. With Sleiman and Weaver in his corner, Hogan will have to do a lot to downtown in order to pay back his supporters.
If the right GOB's step forth for Hogan, it might be a good thing for DT.
*Let me express that I don't like this style of campaigning or politics, but I'm trying to make some serious lemonade here. I like and respect Wayne Weaver, so I am assuming whatever his motive is, it's noble. I'm just trying to figure out what that motive is.
Most of the time politics is not about party or even idealogy, but protecting one's own bottom line.
No matter who wins, the winner will 'owe' a favor to a Weaver. Nothing mysterious going on.
Guess Im just learning then. It is just a really broad statement (to me at least) to be informed in a post that Mike Hogan is going to be the next Mayor . No ifs and or buts. That is why I say it just looks fishy.. Hogan did not get the majority vote in the primary, but all of a sudden its in the bag??
I do too... One's color is a non-issue. But I don't speak for the majority.
What does this all mean for the state of the Jaguars? A house divided politically? Doesn't sound good for the future of the franchise. JK.
Timkin, Nothing in politics is ever a certainty and odd things do happen. But there is a world of things that go on in politics that can give one a pretty good indication of where things are headed in a campaign. This has more to do with fixed voting habits and powerstructures than anything else. We saw a break down of power groups in the first round of this election when there were three Republicans splitting that vote. The Dem vote was also impacted by Morans presence in the race. That has all changed and we are down to two candidates. Using historical data, voter turnout and current public sentiment, Hogan is the indicated winner. Of course the votes have to be counted and everyone has the chance to campaign strongly for the candidate they choose. May 17th will give us the final answer.
Also, I don't think this is a choice of candidate based on race but experience.
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 03:37:58 PM
Timkin, Nothing in politics is ever a certainty and odd things do happen. But there is a world of things that go on in politics that can give one a pretty good indication of where things are headed in a campaign. This has more to do with fixed voting habits and powerstructures than anything else. We saw a break down of power groups in the first round of this election when there were three Republicans splitting that vote. The Dem vote was also impacted by Morans presence in the race. That has all changed and we are down to two candidates. Using historical data, voter turnout and current public sentiment, Hogan is the indicated winner. Of course the votes have to be counted and everyone has the chance to campaign strongly for the candidate they choose. May 17th will give us the final answer.
Also, I don't think this is a choice of candidate based on race but experience.
Diane, How familiar are you with the depth of Alvin Brown's experience?
True.. Diane , in no way am I upset with you. I would have no reason to be. Fixed voting habits can not necessarily wind us up with the best person to do the job. For more reasons than I want to get into , I would have preferred a woman to be in office .. Whether Glorious , Audrey , or YOU, I just think a woman would have taken this position very seriously and got the fiscal house in order PRONTO.. That is why I stood behind Glorious, and then Audrey.
I don't know Mike , and indications are that he is an honorable man.. but if a person is entering office by support of "fixed voting habits" and the Good ole boy network, WHAT has changed? its more of the same ole same ole. and my fear is that this is EXACTLY what we will endure 4 more years of..
Of all people you know my position on historic buildings, particularly Annie Lytle School.. Right now as it stands , no matter who becomes Mayor, I am coming to the sad realization that she is not going to be saved.. there is not money to save her, and as for the the last 50 years ,she will be back-burnered till someone wondering around in her gets seriously hurt or killed and that will be the end. It SUCKS to me that so much has been squandered in the Mayors office and in the City doing special favors for all the good ole boys and special interests, In JTA's brainless, at best management, that could have been more wisely used on projects for the urban core , or Annie , or Genovar's Hall , or the Ambassador. So it is not even in the interest of historic preservation that I think one will be better than the other. Mikes "list" as I call it , was pretty insignificant.. Alvin's at least went into some detail. Either way kid, I love you.. We will know soon where this is going .
Not in my personal view Stephen. I can't speak for how others look at the issue. I voted for Obama and for Nat Glover. In both cases because of their qualities as candidates. Color did factor into my choices.
Steve, I will respond to your question shortly. Headed out to an appointment right now so I will be offline for a while. ;)
For the record. I am speaking for myself, no one else. ;)
Quote from: stephendare on April 12, 2011, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 03:37:58 PM
Timkin, Nothing in politics is ever a certainty and odd things do happen. But there is a world of things that go on in politics that can give one a pretty good indication of where things are headed in a campaign. This has more to do with fixed voting habits and powerstructures than anything else. We saw a break down of power groups in the first round of this election when there were three Republicans splitting that vote. The Dem vote was also impacted by Morans presence in the race. That has all changed and we are down to two candidates. Using historical data, voter turnout and current public sentiment, Hogan is the indicated winner. Of course the votes have to be counted and everyone has the chance to campaign strongly for the candidate they choose. May 17th will give us the final answer.
Also, I don't think this is a choice of candidate based on race but experience.
The assumption that Hogan 'has it in the bag' is based on expectations of racism, not race, and certainly not experience.
Well, I say let him think that way. Hopefully Republicans will stay home, because he already "has it in the bag"
All I know is that Obama just about beat the so-called guy with experience in Duval:
Quote
2008 Election Results:
50% for McCain
49% for Obama
What is 1% of voters in a mayoral race?
Quote
A whopping 1,500 votes!!!!!!!!
Obama was from Chicago, Alvin Brown is from right here in Jax.
I despise the GOB, and hopefully there are enough new-comers to Jax who feel the same.
Already, two of my Democratic neighbors left soon after the 2004 election, and Jacksonville will for ever be stuck in the past by electing Wayne Hogan.
Jacksonville needs to become a destination, not just a pass-through.
We need to take Jacksonville to the next level.
I think some old-time Dems in Jacksonville suffer from Stockholm syndrome ;D
Please don't laugh.... Stockholm syndrome?
Politics is just like sports really. In the NCAA playoffs, the top seeds do usually win, but there are always upsets too. The trick is separating the 'upsets in the making' from the 'windmill tilting'.
When Crist announced for Senate, Marco Rubio was little known and was getting trounced in the polls by Crist. We all know how that turned out.
Based on history, voting patterns (including 2003 Peyton vs. Glover), etc. you have to say that Hogan is the 'favorite', but he does not have it 'in the bag' IMO.
Hogan has to worry about complacency and his perception of being too conservative and the FBC candidate.
For Brown to win though, he has to be able to get traction as a viable alternative. He has to avoid mistakes, and build credibility via fundraising, endorsements, and finding one or two salient issues. He has a path to victory, but it is a narrow one.
@ Steve. Yes I have a good understanding of Alvin Browns past work experience as a result of research I did at the beginnings of his campaign and speaking to him personally because I was working for another candidate at the time. This is a brief synopsis.
Brown is not from Jacksonville but from South Carolina. He did attend JU here and had an honorary position with the college at the time his campaign began. He also served briefly as an attorney in Jacksonville. He was also in a position with the Willie Gary foundation. His government position was a post he held under the umbrella of the Clinton Presidency and an appointment to HUD given him by Al Gore. He was one of several folks who oversaw a sizable Federal budget for HUD. Reseach shows that after an initial trial of the program he served under, the Feds, (which was Dems at the time) cancelled the program because of it's expense. At some point close to 1998 I believe, Brown bought a home in Jacksonville in an upper scale, middle class neighborhood.
I met and spoke to Brown at a meeting at Dem headquarters just after he had entered the race. I asked him why he was running for the position of Mayor of Jacksonville? His response was that God had shown him this is what he should do. I told him I appreciated him taking action on what God told him to do but asked what his platform would be? He told me he did not have it ready at the time but would be working on it. I then asked him to name three things that he would bring to the table as a candidate for mayor that made him a better choice than the other candidates on the ballot? He did not answer. I asked him to name one thing, to which he responded by telling me about his HUD job and connections to Clinton and Gore in 1994 and the following years. I told him that while that sounded impressive, local city goverment and federal government were two very different animals. I did not see how that position which he held nearly a decade ago, helped place him over the other candidates on the ticket at the time. I was also curious about his claimed connections to the Clintons and Gores. In the beginning he would speak about his association to Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. So I decided to do some research both online and by calling Ms. Clinton's office directly in Washington. After being shifted through several connections, I spoke with a senior member of her staff who told me she had never heard of Alvin Brown. She did some checking , got back to me saying that Brown had held a position unrelated to Hillary Clinton's office and that Ms. Clinton would not be speaking on his behalf or about his political bid. I also called Al Gores office and spoke with a senior member there. They told me that Al had known Brown years ago when he worked for HUD, that Gore had had little interaction with him since and at that time had no intention of backing or endorsing Alvin Browns run for mayor. Remember this was all in April of last year. Fast forward to the fellow from BET and the short paid visit by Clinton, who met with a small group to speak about Brown and say he supported his candidacy. Then there was the short, no media questions allowed visit from Gore. Both gentlemen were compensated for their time.
What struck me about Brown at the time I met with him last year was his repeated name dropping of Clinton and Gore as a measure of him as a candidate. The second thing that stuck with me was that he had no plan or platform when he entered the race, other than to say he was inspired by God. In my mind, I saw a fellow who had run against Corrine Brown, lost terribly to her and decided this was another shot at a seat in local poltics so he got in the race for mayor. Now Brown's platform has morphed greatly and included much of what other candidates have focused on as important issues, i.e. the port, education, jobs etc.
In my view his experience in Washington and working through that level of Federal Governement in the 1990's does little to prepare him for the broad and vast needs Jacksonville is currently facing. I will say he is a charasmatic and engaging personality who knows what to say to engage people in his views. The reality is however that he does not have the local experience or leadership connections that this city will require to move through the many difficult issues before us in 2011, 2012 and thru 2013. That is my view and experience. I do not expect it to change anyones views about Brown or what his past work experience means. Just my take on his qualification at this time.
I think we are conversing on Metrojacksonville Stephen or have I mistakenly logged into
TU comments? LOL Is this to be a meaningful conversation or a contest of wills to include a snark contest? If it is the second and we are after sound bites then I will let you have at it. If it is about intelligent conversation and staying on topic, count me in for now. ;) Seriously, I am open to discussion but not verbal contests, I simply don't have the energy for that.
QuoteJacksonville needs to become a destination, not just a pass-through.
It is very sad that you cannot see that our great town is a destination already.
Stephen, I am extending my hand to you and giving you back the complete reign of this forum and discussion. ;) I am serious about not having the energy for mind or word games. Carry on.
I wish Diane would be a regular poster on here. :)
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 05:28:54 PM
@ Steve. Yes I have a good understanding of Alvin Browns past work experience as a result of research I did at the beginnings of his campaign and speaking to him personally because I was working for another candidate at the time. This is a brief synopsis.
Brown is not from Jacksonville but from South Carolina. He did attend JU here and had an honorary position with the college at the time his campaign began. He also served briefly as an attorney in Jacksonville. He was also in a position with the Willie Gary foundation. His government position was a post he held under the umbrella of the Clinton Presidency and an appointment to HUD given him by Al Gore. He was one of several folks who oversaw a sizable Federal budget for HUD. Reseach shows that after an initial trial of the program he served under, the Feds, (which was Dems at the time) cancelled the program because of it's expense. At some point close to 1998 I believe, Brown bought a home in Jacksonville in an upper scale, middle class neighborhood.
I met and spoke to Brown at a meeting at Dem headquarters just after he had entered the race. I asked him why he was running for the position of Mayor of Jacksonville? His response was that God had shown him this is what he should do. I told him I appreciated him taking action on what God told him to do but asked what his platform would be? He told me he did not have it ready at the time but would be working on it. I then asked him to name three things that he would bring to the table as a candidate for mayor that made him a better choice than the other candidates on the ballot? He did not answer. I asked him to name one thing, to which he responded by telling me about his HUD job and connections to Clinton and Gore in 1994 and the following years. I told him that while that sounded impressive, local city goverment and federal government were two very different animals. I did not see how that position which he held nearly a decade ago, helped place him over the other candidates on the ticket at the time. I was also curious about his claimed connections to the Clintons and Gores. In the beginning he would speak about his association to Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. So I decided to do some research both online and by calling Ms. Clinton's office directly in Washington. After being shifted through several connections, I spoke with a senior member of her staff who told me she had never heard of Alvin Brown. She did some checking , got back to me saying that Brown had held a position unrelated to Hillary Clinton's office and that Ms. Clinton would not be speaking on his behalf or about his political bid. I also called Al Gores office and spoke with a senior member there. They told me that Al had known Brown years ago when he worked for HUD, that Gore had had little interaction with him since and at that time had no intention of backing or endorsing Alvin Browns run for mayor. Remember this was all in April of last year. Fast forward to the fellow from BET and the short paid visit by Clinton, who met with a small group to speak about Brown and say he supported his candidacy. Then there was the short, no media questions allowed visit from Gore. Both gentlemen were compensated for their time.
What struck me about Brown at the time I met with him last year was his repeated name dropping of Clinton and Gore as a measure of him as a candidate. The second thing that stuck with me was that he had no plan or platform when he entered the race, other than to say he was inspired by God. In my mind, I saw a fellow who had run against Corrine Brown, lost terribly to her and decided this was another shot at a seat in local poltics so he got in the race for mayor. Now Brown's platform has morphed greatly and included much of what other candidates have focused on as important issues, i.e. the port, education, jobs etc.
In my view his experience in Washington and working through that level of Federal Governement in the 1990's does little to prepare him for the broad and vast needs Jacksonville is currently facing. I will say he is a charasmatic and engaging personality who knows what to say to engage people in his views. The reality is however that he does not have the local experience or leadership connections that this city will require to move through the many difficult issues before us in 2011, 2012 and thru 2013. That is my view and experience. I do not expect it to change anyones views about Brown or what his past work experience means. Just my take on his qualification at this time.
I appreciate your response, research, and perspective. I don't think Alvin Brown was the best candidate in this race, but I think he's the best candidate in the runoff. In personal conversation with him, I believe he IS literate in the importance of wisely reinvesting in downtown's renewal, and has greater respect for the diversity of this city.
If Mike Hogan would address any serious, difficult issue, debate or intellectual discussion in his quest for Mayor it would increase his credibility as a candidate from my perspective (as one of a few hundred thousand voters). Even better if he was willing to engage outside of his comfort zone. I perceive him to be closely held, tightly managed, and staying within highly insular environments during his run. This perspective is a very limited one from which to lead the city.
The mere fact that his intentions are vague at best, has me very hesitant to embrace the idea of him being Mayor. Setting aside altogether the "bombing the abortion clinic" remark , which is a terrible thing to say, I don't care who you are .. He just does not seem to be a public speaker and only offers bits and pieces of his intentions.
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 12, 2011, 06:24:14 PM
I don't think Alvin Brown was the best candidate in this race, but I think he's the best candidate in the runoff. In personal conversation with him, I believe he IS literate in the importance of wisely reinvesting in downtown's renewal, and has greater respect for the diversity of this city.
If Mike Hogan would address any serious, difficult issue, debate or intellectual discussion in his quest for Mayor it would increase his credibility as a candidate from my perspective (as one of a few hundred thousand voters). Even better if he was willing to engage outside of his comfort zone. I perceive him to be closely held, tightly managed, and staying within highly insular environments during his run. This perspective is a very limited one from which to lead the city.
Just like Rick Scott's tightly managed, insular environment. Making himself just about only available to the Tea Partier kind.
Quote from: Timkin on April 12, 2011, 06:27:09 PM
The mere fact that his intentions are vague at best, has me very hesitant to embrace the idea of him being Mayor. Setting aside altogether the "bombing the abortion clinic" remark , which is a terrible thing to say, I don't care who you are .. He just does not seem to be a public speaker and only offers bits and pieces of his intentions.
And for a women like Diane with her DWIN affilliation to just set aside such a shocking remark is astonishing.
I wonder what DWIN thinks of her lack of support for finally getting some progress in Jacksonville, rather than having "same old, same old" going on forever.
Faye, I don't know where you got the idea I was or am affiliated with DWIN. I have never been a member and currently am not one. Years ago I did recieve the first Jackie Brown womans award they gave out. I did not solicit or ask for it but it was given to me and I am proud to have received it.
For those who don't know DWIN is a Democrat womans organization here in Jacksonville. Lovely ladies all whom I respect but to whom I am not associated. For the record. ;)
Hogan may well win but this is drivel about you have to have local experience (be a local insider) or have the local connections (be a GOB). Spare me the nonsense that Jacksonville can't move forward unless we choose from the group of same old same old. I am not saying that foolishness won't carry the day but let's not start proclaiming we should lie down and enjoy it because "that is the way it is".
Good on you Jeffrey. Standing up for ones beliefs and views is a good thing. Without the give and take of perspectives we would be left with a flat system of politics and no hope. Differing views are a needed part of the process. With regard to local experience, I stand on that statement. We are all in the process of deciding who is the best candidate to fill the open office of Mayor. In essence, we are interviewing job applicants. Right now the prospective employer are the taxpayers and their city is in distress. It's a matter of chosing the person with the greates amount of experience for the job. This is not nonsense but rather a sound practice used by all prospective employers to review job applicants. Right now local experience is more important than ever considering the challenges facing Jacksonville. There is no time for someone to grow into the job. This is not to be confused with a GOB mindset or accepting any one power group over another. Brown has already reached out to a number of GOB players, especially those in the Civic Council. How much support they will give him if any, remains to be seen. The truth of the matter is that the political fabric of Jacksonville is interwoven in such a way that no one who makes it to the top levels of power, including Alvin Brown, gets there without the support of a significant amount of local power.
The GOB will hold some sway, especially with money. But I think the internet helps level that playing field a bit, too. One of these cycles something different is going to happen.
Is this that cycle? Maybe...
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 09:51:04 PM
The truth of the matter is that the political fabric of Jacksonville is interwoven in such a way that no one who makes it to the top levels of power, including Alvin Brown, gets there without the support of a significant amount of local power.
I think your statement above is correct - and I think you have identified the reason that Jacksonville continues to struggle to find its way.
Double Meh Stephen, LOL. While the internet has greatly expanded the ability to discuss and research candidates, I have found that people of like views flock together and tell each other what they want to hear, rather than really vette the candidates in a serious way. Folks twitter, tweet and FB among themselves often lending participants to believe there is strength to a situation when it is a great deal of wishful thinking. The technololgy has now reached the point that printed material and television was once faced with. In the beginning, because it was in the newspaper or on T.V., people assumed it's accuracy. The same has happened on the internet. Just because stuff is online, does not give it any basis in fact. The accuracy is as suspect as any other medium of discourse, especially when it comes to hot topic discussions like politics. Jacksonville may see the day when the various players in the diverse groups of local power brokers have lost their impact. We are not there yet. IMO.
Diane, is that why you're clinging on to them now? The power brokers, I mean. There was a time when you wouldn't get within 20 feet of someone like Mike Hogan. Now you practically delight in the prospect of his election. You're much closer to Delores Weaver politically than you are to Mike Hogan. And here you are. What are you doing to stop the power brokers from picking someone as conservative and GOB as Mike Hogan to lead our city? Nothing. You're propping up the GOB and helping them along their way. That's what I don't get.
Politics is so personal to me and your support for Hogan is like something out of bizarro world. It still doesn't add up.
I'm not blessed with your field of vision. I'm just rocked on my heels watching this situation unfold.
Boy does that EVER make two of us
I am not clinging to anyone Jimmy. I think what is confusing people is the idea that to support a candidate means you must give up a part of yourself or your belief system. I have not and will not do that. What my years in politics have taught me is that someone must be willing to reach out and bridge the gaps between the poltical groups. There is a legacy, literally years of hard work to keep safe. For instance, remember all the alarm of the possibility of no ethics office in Jacksonville? I reached out and shared a point of view with a candidate who was willing to listen and adjust his views given another perspective. This is just one of many topics that I have discussed with Mike and he has been open to views other than his own. That is what I feel we all must work toward. People may not get me all the time because they have decided how they think I feel or judge a situation. I always, always look at all the evidence and then choose a course of action. There is nothing positive to gain by pointing at one group and saying they are the bad guys and have it all wrong. The reality is there are selfish and geneous people on all sides of the political spectrum. Jacksonville needs us all on the same page right now, or at least as many of us as possible. I don't share the view that people with different ideas cannot and should not work toward a common goal. I honestly and truly don't think Alvin Brown is the person Jacksonville needs at this juncture. Nothing more, nothing less.
The trick is not to take what happens in politics personally. It is it's own animal, a by product of age old power structures that no one has ever figured out a way to control. That will not change in any of our lifetimes. Us humans have a long way to go in that regard.
Does Mike have any interest in Historic Preservation, Diane?
I have not asked him that specific question Timkin. I do know he and his family are very engaged in local history, but have no specific answer about where he stands on preservation. My take on the issue, as someone who gets the importance of preserving historic structures, is that working toward a balanced and workable budget will make the idea of historic preservation one that everyone can embrace. That is my hope. Our history is who we are and is of paramount importance.
Folks at RAP have told me that as Councilman, Mike Hogan voted against the ordinance allowing RAP (and I guess SPAR) to do their thing. The spin (forgive me, Diane) is that if everyone has low taxes and we cut enough government spending, then we can eventually worry about X.
Where X = anything you happen to care about.
So, I don't think we'll ever get to X in this scenario.
I don't know about past voting on that issue Jimmy. As you know I am deeply committed to historic preservation and will always be. Public trust must first be restored and the way to begin to do that is to have people feel confident that the taxes currently collected are being spent well. That means tearing into the budget. Years of investigation have proved to me personally that we have wasted and continue to waste massive amounts of tax dollars via lousy contracts and politcally motivated dealings. I know there is a sentiment out there that people want services but don't want to pay for them. I don't believe that is true. I think for those who have enough to live on and still enjoy some extra's in life it is easy to imagine that others just don't want to pay more, when the fact is they just can't pay more right now.
I also think that Mullaneys stance on no new taxes was very telling. He is nothing if he is not calculated in his thinking. He has been on the inside for years and knows very well how our budgeting is handled. He would never have come up with a no new taxes platform if he did not know in advance that there was money in the budget to make that a viable position. The time to fix and debug the budget is now and once people are satisfied with how their money is used, they are more than open to paying their fair share.
Quote from: Diane Melendez on April 12, 2011, 11:06:34 PM
I have not asked him that specific question Timkin. I do know he and his family are very engaged in local history, but have no specific answer about where he stands on preservation. My take on the issue, as someone who gets the importance of preserving historic structures, is that working toward a balanced and workable budget will make the idea of historic preservation one that everyone can embrace. That is my hope. Our history is who we are and is of paramount importance.
I do appreciate your honest answer on that Diane, and I do know that you value Historic Preservation.. and I sincerely appreciate you for that.
It is unfortunate that this debate seems heated among people that know each other well.. While I support Brown and you support ( I presume) Hogan .. it is not carved in stone that either will solve all of Jacksonville's issues. I hope if Brown wins that we aren't disappointed with him as a Mayor, and that if Hogan wins, that you and alike supporters of him will not be disappointed , as well.
Its a toss up. Unfortunately my gut instinct is that of the two while Hogan may NOT be a cut of the same cloth as Scott , who is a MONSTER , and nothing less , IMO .. he comes closer to the appearance of Scott, and the main reason why is , he basicly is evading us , the body , the citizens of Jacksonville who want ANSWERS, true answers , as to his intentions. Marriage rights, gun control , and cutting taxes , I'm afraid does not win me over. Personally I don't see how EITHER person could promise no tax increases. As we all know , Peyton promised this .. and need I go further with that? Peyton pledged to me PERSONALLY in a letter ( which I will hold on to from now on) Pledging to work with Councilman Corrigan on Preserving Annie Lytle. Well.. the School hasnt fallen into a pile of bricks yet, so in that regard he made good on his promise.. but a hell of alot more COULD HAVE been done... it just was not important. And my gut feeling is it will not be for EITHER of these two either.
Regardless of where this ends up, I can only speak for myself when I tell you , I am and will always be your friend.. but Diane, your choice as Mayor , is not showing me much .. With all due respect. :)
I hear you Timkin and value your right to your own views and opinions about the candidates. Personally I am not offended by the fact that people have different views of the same situation. That is as it should be. Everyone should support whom they think can do the job the best. I can tell you this much. No matter who is elected, a whole bunch of people will be disappointed. Nothing will change that.
No Stephen.. I am certain he will not stand up for our rights at all ,sadly... and even more sad is , neither will our new Governor. :(
I do however , hope that when this is said and done ,we can all move forward together.
good point.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 12, 2011, 07:44:11 AM
Make downtown the issue, make downtown the issue. He'll lose the southside if he does this. Glover made downtown a major issue and lost to Peyton. As downtown loses more and more voters, since there are only a couple of thousand residents there, there are not enough critical masses to vote downtown. Only when it costs more to live/work in the burbs, will downtown come back into view, this is simple economics. We still have too much available land in Jacksonville.
Mike Hogan referring to downtown as 'the most important neighborhood'? If Alvin Brown is such a loser for backing a stronger downtown, why is Mike Hogan walking back his comment about downtown being just another neighborhood in Jacksonville? It sounds like the suburbs are not so anti-downtown after all. Can a mayor wear flip flops into City Hall? ;D
If someone has the backing of the tea party and some public sector unions, pay very close attention to anything he says. To form a coalition like that, he's lying to someone. IMHO.
Flip-flopping and backtracking on other issues would be child's play.
Excellent point. Which one is Mike Hogan willing to throw under the bus to pacify the other? I hope we never have to find out.
Quote from: Jaxson on April 16, 2011, 09:44:34 AM
Excellent point. Which one is Mike Hogan willing to throw under the bus to pacify the other? I hope we never have to find out.
Hard to say, but my bet would be on the Unions, unless there is a significant backlash against the Teapublicans in 2012. ("Teapublicans" borrowed from someone else, but I like the term)
It's funny how the tea people are in cahoots with the tax man. It's even stranger that the local unions are also on his bandwagon. But you are right, Charles, these strange bedfellows are ultimately going to have to realize that there is only room in the bed for two - and the tea party people are not going to roll over for anyone.
Quote from: Jaxson on April 16, 2011, 02:11:58 PM
It's funny how the tea people are in cahoots with the tax man. It's even stranger that the local unions are also on his bandwagon. But you are right, Charles, these strange bedfellows are ultimately going to have to realize that there is only room in the bed for two - and the tea party people are not going to roll over for anyone.
Well, here is to the police and firefighter unions seeing the light.
Who was it again who wants to cut their pensions?
Anyone seriously looking at both these men and concluding that Hogan is best man for the job is either not capable of rational thought or lying to themselves. Neither is admirable. I say this as a long time Republican voter who supported McCain in 08. The city council that will be installed will be right of center. A farther right Mayor that is socially to the right of Pat Robertson is not the answer to Jacksonville's problems. I think cutting waste out of the local government is crucial and vital. But it is not the only problem the city faces. We need someone with vision who can speak to company executives about why Jax is a great place to do business. We need someone who understands that without a vibrant downtown the city's fortunes will always slam right into a shallow glass ceiling. We need someone who can sell the city to foreign and out of state investment. This really aint about right/left when it comes down to it as most things in politics usually are not. It it about competency plain and simple. And while railing against illegals, ensuring Obama doesn't take our guns, and believing without question anything one's pastor says makes for good campaigns particularly amongst a specific group of the electorate it by no means makes a good mayor. The best argument FOR Hogan I've heard is the pragmatic by way of omniscient "He's going to win". Says something, and it's not much.
QuoteIt's even stranger that the local unions are also on his bandwagon.
You might want to clarify that statement. On election night Brown was at the Longshoreman's Union Hall. So there are some local union members in each camp.
Were you at the Union Hall function , M?
QuoteWere you at the Union Hall function , M?
No, but I do watch TV and I know how to read the metrojacksonville postings, you might want to go back and refresh yourself with the posts after the election. More than a few MJers posted about the same.
Oh but I do know how to read, and I can afford a TV too, I just happened not to tune into it in this particular case.
Just was wondered if you attended the event M. It was a simple question. Sorry if the question offended you.
QuoteJust was wondered if you attended the event M. It was a simple question. Sorry if the question offended you.
Nope, sorry, I was not going to attend a democratic rally, but thanks for thinking of me.
Sure thing! anytime ! :)
In looking at the maps, and seeing the crowd last night, my read is that Audrey Moran voters came in for Brown in a huge way last night.
I saw one of Audrey's paid campaign higher-ups this past Saturday. We talked for a while and I asked the inevitable question. Audrey's staff, quietly, were voting for Alvin Brown. I like to think that Audrey did the same.
Diane what about the advantage of having MetroJacksonville.com on your side. Politicians take note you will now be vetted here. :)
I don't know WTF Audrey's sour grapes with Brown were anyway. Rick Mullaney cost her the election, Alvin Brown had nothing to do with it. Refusing to endorse the only like-minded candidate because you're still pissed that you didn't win the primary is really rather juvenile. If Audrey had formally endorsed Brown, we likely wouldn't be doing a recount.
I'm actually pretty disappointed in her over this.
Oh and Diane Melendez, what happened?
You must've given yourself carpal tunnel posting a series of thousand-word analyses on MetroJacksonville about how Brown could never win. And you really seemed pretty sure that you had an inside track on all this. So what happened? I thought it was an outright impossibility that Brown could get even 25% of the vote, let alone win the election?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on May 18, 2011, 02:00:19 PM
I don't know WTF Audrey's sour grapes with Brown were anyway. Rick Mullaney cost her the election, Alvin Brown had nothing to do with it. Refusing to endorse the only like-minded candidate because you're still pissed that you didn't win the primary is really rather juvenile. If Audrey had formally endorsed Brown, we likely wouldn't be doing a recount.
I'm actually pretty disappointed in her over this.
I feel the same way Chris, Haters Gonna Hate is all I can say about this.
Brown won the primary by an impressive ability to get his supporters out. Such did not erase the huge victory from Mike Hogan. While a good number of republicans wouldnt initially support Hogan, Hogans strategy cost him this election, in that being. Mike Hogan ran a strategy to win the general election, after achieving a monstrous primary victory. Alvin Brown ran a campaign to become the mayor of Jacksonville. HE was able to persuade those same republicans to vote for him last week. And in his passion, he persuaded the most public figures to actively support him.
Such was Mike Hogans failure, he could not, or i say more importantly, DID NOT, reach out to those republicans!
Ive said all along that i personally found Hogan a likable accessible leader for the city. He made a devastating mistake by doing what i just described, IMHO
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on May 18, 2011, 02:03:09 PM
Oh and Diane Melendez, what happened?
You must've given yourself carpal tunnel posting a series of thousand-word analyses on MetroJacksonville about how Brown could never win. And you really seemed pretty sure that you had an inside track on all this. So what happened? I thought it was an outright impossibility that Brown could get even 25% of the vote, let alone win the election?
In her defense I think it was strong support of her choice ,coupled with wishful thinking. I never personally met Hogan but could get his vibe through all of his negative advertising both on TV and in mailings. Wouldn't have mattered who his opponent was , they would still be the bad guy.
The underlying negative for me personally ,with Hogan was that he has been compensated by the taxpayers for quite sometime, with 16 (count em ) substantial pay raises. One of the major deciding factors for me personally, with Brown was his willingness to LEAD BY EXAMPLE and take a 20% cut in the Mayor's salary. Had Hogan even made mention of doing that , I MIGHT (might) have dug a little further into what he is about.
As we all know , who ever ends up in the Mayor's office has to hit the ground running and has a quagmire of a mess to BEGIN cleaning up... I do not personally think all of the City's problems can or will be solved in one or two terms , but this is a start and hopefully a lesson will be taken here ,by all citizens that it is important...SO VERY IMPORTANT to vote, and that your vote does matter, and that it is not too late for us to make our City not only vibrant in the downtown core (which to me , needs the most attention) , but as a whole .
Quote from: Jimmy on May 18, 2011, 12:15:38 PM
In looking at the maps, and seeing the crowd last night, my read is that Audrey Moran voters came in for Brown in a huge way last night.
I saw one of Audrey's paid campaign higher-ups this past Saturday. We talked for a while and I asked the inevitable question. Audrey's staff, quietly, were voting for Alvin Brown. I like to think that Audrey did the same.
it was more than quiet support...some of Audrey's paid staff joined the Brown team...and Alvin was given access to her donor list and talking points
Now the TU is sharing Audrey's reaction:
In an exclusive interview with The Times-Union, Audrey Moran said Brown’s run has been a “historic election†for Jacksonville and she expressed confidence in his ability to lead the city forward.
Moran finished third in the March 22 municipal race. She didn’t endorse either Hogan or Brown, though many of her staunchest supporters backed Brown.
“Alvin Brown reached out to people across party lines and people responded in a way Jacksonville has never seen before,†Moran said. “I believe it is very positive and very hopeful for our city’s future. People are realizing that our local issues should not be governed by party politics.â€
Moran said she thought the race would be close, but she was unsure who would win. She thinks one factor working against Hogan was his 20 years as an elected official from city councilman to state representative to his current job as tax collector. One Brown television ad knocked Hogan for being a “career politician.â€
“I believe that he was probably hurt by being viewed as an incumbent,†Moran said. “There’s an anti-incumbent sentiment out there.â€