http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-03-31/story/works-progress-new-subdivision-sunbeam-road
The land being cleared on Sunbeam Road, just west of Old Kings Road, is making way for Wexford Chase, a new subdivision. A total of 68 homes are planned on 50 by 120 foot lots. They'll range from 1,500 to 3,100 square feet with prices starting at about $150,000.
Wexford Chase LLC bought the 13.5 acres last year year for $1.1 million and is the developer, digging the retention pond, putting in the streets, etc.
KB Home is building the homes. Construction should start in June with the first model finished in July. The rest of the homes will be built to order.
Why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pfui!
Hey guys, let's clear-cut some trees and build some low quality housing for people who can't afford it, don't need it, or will be foreclosed on anyway....
It's Florida people! We don't need more housing!
Typical KB Home - construction starts in June, first model ready by July - WTF!?!
Read this hilarious post from a commentor on the jax.com site:
QuoteUnder Governor Rick Scott, the sound of nail guns will reverberate throughout Florida as our economy improves under his ambitious plan.
Wexford Chase subdivision is a preview of Florida's recovery.
New job openings at construction sites offer an opportunity for public servants who don't make the cut under Rick Scott. They can retrain and enter a growing career field.
Old Republicans officeholders and officials who can't rehabilitate also will be looking for other jobs and new construction offers high pay for those who really want to work.
Straight Ahead!
O-M-G
That guy is subtle. He's one of the few bright lights on those comment threads.
Quote from: Jimmy on March 31, 2011, 04:27:43 PM
That guy is subtle. He's one of the few bright lights on those comment threads.
It is difficult to find anything on that site that isn't pure equine feces.
I've got a dandy photo that I took and had framed some years ago.I'll review and can post back as to the date,for darn sure the piece became a favorite Collector's item!
With confidence and anticipation I submitted the beautifully framed,telling photo for display at a city sponsored Earth Day event at the Landing.
****Rejected as 'too controversial'****
The photo depicts a Tree Farm sign,a couple of young pine trees......... and in the back ground is freshly razed landscape,bulldozer underway and related construction images............the photo taken from ATLANTIC BLVD,Jacksonville.
Onward-
I've seen this place a couple times as I was driving by. It looks like it will house cookie cutter homes on the tiniest of lots. This is a waste of development. The same number of units could be built on a quarter the space if they were done as town homes in blocks of about 10. The rest of the land could be preserved, have a great communal lawn with a dog park, retail, or any number of uses. Shared resources enrich lives and communities. The old picket fence American dream is over.
QuoteI've seen this place a couple times as I was driving by. It looks like it will house cookie cutter homes on the tiniest of lots. This is a waste of development.
Regardless of your thoughts, next time by, let the people working jobs on the site know you think they're product is a waste. I am sure they will tell in their feelings as well. Just be prepared to run.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:19:57 PM
Regardless of your thoughts, next time by, let the people working jobs on the site know you think they're product is a waste. I am sure they will tell in their feelings as well. Just be prepared to run.
So a couple of months of employment is worth decades of ugly sprawl, increased resource usage, and further depression of real estate values in that area?
QuoteSo a couple of months of employment is worth decades of ugly sprawl, increased resource usage, and further depression of real estate values in that area?
It keeps deadbeats off the 99 weeks of unemployment, yeah, sure, why not? Worst that can happen is that the City condemns the site, and KB has to employ more people to tear down the structures.
If we had more quality jobs, this would be a mute point.
let the people working jobs on the site know you think they're product is a waste. I am sure they will tell in their feelings as well. Just be prepared to run.
[/quote]
The only 'inevitable' thing about growth based 'employment' is that it is un-sustainable,along with many the many costs externalized to the public.So by embracing-demanding continued "growth" based job 'creation' we are in fact creating a wellfare worker class.
QuoteThe only 'inevitable' thing about growth based 'employment' is that it is un-sustainable,along with many the many costs externalized to the public.So by embracing-demanding continued "growth" based job 'creation' we are in fact creating a wellfare worker class.
Tell that to the 11% unemployed in Jacksonville, again, be prepared to run.
"New Sprawl"????
Once again in today's 3.31.11 alert we base our assessment solely on what we see.
What we see is not what we are going to get-considering future development already 'planned' for,vested.
Vested means the public's government has granted permission for development,subject to specific performance.
Further,future growth commitments based on unquestioned "projections",assumptions.
And a public growth management involvement narrative that pounds the fist of "inevitable" growth,based after all....on the "Projections" delivered by the professionals.
I suggest in the future we look not simply to ever new unfolding 'new sprawl' but rather simply predict the future and assemble a mental model.
Access city and regional Comp plans and other definitive future growth vision material.What,for instance,is the future projected population,land area currently undeveloped yet slated for build for Duval given current planning parameters??
I could do this for you but it would be nice to see others get a handle on it.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:41:16 PM
QuoteThe only 'inevitable' thing about growth based 'employment' is that it is un-sustainable,along with many the many costs externalized to the public.So by embracing-demanding continued "growth" based job 'creation' we are in fact creating a wellfare worker class.
Tell that to the 11% unemployed in Jacksonville, again, be prepared to run.
No question.So this thread quickly veers to the ultimate thread ....population,environment,land/resource base,exponential growth,diminishing margin,Tragedy of the Commons.and Jacksonville Ethos.
In my experience,the ultimate thread soon soars above most attention spans,so i will appropriately sign of on this one from here on out.
Just go back to my earlier post (this date) re the presentation deemed 'too controversial' for the City of Jacksonville sponsored Earth Day celebration.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
QuoteSo a couple of months of employment is worth decades of ugly sprawl, increased resource usage, and further depression of real estate values in that area?
It keeps deadbeats off the 99 weeks of unemployment, yeah, sure, why not? Worst that can happen is that the City condemns the site, and KB has to employ more people to tear down the structures.
If we had more quality jobs, this would be a mute point.
So um... M-train .. are you saying that a person who is unemployed , regardless of the circumstances , is a deadbeat?
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:41:16 PM
QuoteThe only 'inevitable' thing about growth based 'employment' is that it is un-sustainable,along with many the many costs externalized to the public.So by embracing-demanding continued "growth" based job 'creation' we are in fact creating a wellfare worker class.
Tell that to the 11% unemployed in Jacksonville, again, be prepared to run.
Find me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.
If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.
Jobs recovery? Please.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
If we had more quality jobs, this would be a mute point.
We agree on that point.
Slow news day. Why are people surprised at this? Love it, okay face it, yall HATE it, but don't be surprised or outraged by it. Hardly the 'death nail' to the urban community that people wanna portray. Expect more subdivisions in the future for North FL....and no I'm not being 'complacent' by not raising my blood pressure over a freaking subdivision in the burbs!
More power to them. If someone wants a nice yard (for a gardening hobby perhaps) and a new home (doesn't want to buy another's problems) and still be close to town and job with an affordable price... your headed to a TRACT HOME. Yeah, I know Springfield, Riverside, etc... have a vacant lot here and there, but unless you are a person of means, getting a home designed and built as a custom job can be expensive. Back to KB? The way I see it, Commuter Rail isn't going to work without density around our stations, and if Sunbeam isn't a railroad station waiting to happen, then I'm not sure what is...
OCKLAWAHA
Historical Note: Sunbeam WAS a station on the Florida East Coast and was home to the notorious Sunbeam Road Prison (scene of torture and murder), highlighted in the 1967 movie "Cool Hand Luke".
QuoteSo um... M-train .. are you saying that a person who is unemployed , regardless of the circumstances , is a deadbeat?
What I would say is that I do not see any way that someone can go 99 weeks without finding some sort of job to help pay for their expenses. Florida is palatable at 26 weeks, half a year, but 73 more? I mean that is staggering. You could change professions multiple times in that span of time.
QuoteFind me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.
If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.
Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:19:57 PM
Regardless of your thoughts, next time by, let the people working jobs on the site know you think they're product is a waste. I am sure they will tell in their feelings as well. Just be prepared to run.
No reason why these same people can't swing their hammers on redevelopment projects closer to the core that provide jobs and promote a more sustainable city. The problem is not the workers, it is the system that promotes subsidized suburban development. Same with the people buying the homes. If we can give them a better alternative - affordable housing, closer to the employment center and close to good schools then nobody will want to buy this cookie-cutter crap.
If this is the area I'm thinking of, in 2006-2007 it was proposed to be another cookie cutter condominium complex that was going to be constructed by DR Horton who had already built a couple of them on Sunbeam Road. I lived in an apartment in this area at the time and wondered if they were ever going to start the work. In hindsight Im glad they didnt and if I was forced to choose between more condos with 3xs the density and 60 single-family homes, Id choose the single-family.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 01, 2011, 05:09:20 AM
QuoteFind me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.
If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.
Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.
Money from the underground economy does filter back into the system, but it is diluted.
I wonder if you would venture to guess how much of that money goes directly south of the border? I'd speculate it is about 50%. My speculation would be based on personal experience, and the good ole eyeball test.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:19:57 PM
QuoteI've seen this place a couple times as I was driving by. It looks like it will house cookie cutter homes on the tiniest of lots. This is a waste of development.
Regardless of your thoughts, next time by, let the people working jobs on the site know you think they're product is a waste. I am sure they will tell in their feelings as well. Just be prepared to run.
Seamless subject change mtrain. I never commented on the people building the project, just the project. Many people in America work jobs they aren't passionate about so that they can provide for themselves or loved ones. I'm sure many of the builders would agree that this isn't the best development for our city. Many would not.
My main point was that we can do better with what we build in our city. This development site is well within the inner beltway, be that a good or a bad thing. While it's not contributing to the resource draining sprawl like some new developments off of 103rd, land within the inner beltway should have better planned and denser development on it.
I thought my points were valid, even if they weren't eloquently presented. Rather than focus on my main argument, you posted a knee jerk reaction to something I didn't even say. Please keep that sort of drivel on the TU forums and only contribute valid points to metrojax.
PS- The word you were looking for was 'their'. You said '
people working jobs on the site know you think they are product is a waste '
Quote from: buckethead on April 01, 2011, 09:18:24 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 01, 2011, 05:09:20 AM
QuoteFind me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.
If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.
Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.
Money from the underground economy does filter back into the system, but it is diluted.
I wonder if you would venture to guess how much of that money goes directly south of the border? I'd speculate it is about 50%. My speculation would be based on personal experience, and the good ole eyeball test.
Sounds like a good reason to require employers to use E-Verify.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD
Quote from: I-10east on March 31, 2011, 08:09:38 PM
Slow news day. Why are people surprised at this? Love it, okay face it, yall HATE it, but don't be surprised or outraged by it. Hardly the 'death nail' to the urban community that people wanna portray. Expect more subdivisions in the future for North FL....and no I'm not being 'complacent' by not raising my blood pressure over a freaking subdivision in the burbs!
I have to agree with you. Although this is another cookie cutter development there should be no ill feelings for it happening. If there is anyone to be angry with its the city council and the land use overlay that allowed this thing to move forward to begin with. The developer is simply making money on a product that people are buying because they were not forced to develop a different way or in a different location.
IMO, it is a small ray of sunshine and possibly an indicator that things may be turning the corner. I'm cool with a bit more suburban growth in the short term as long as the politicos are hard at work on a revised regional land use and development plan coupled with some transit. Keep the men working for now until we're able to pursuade the market to give them something better to build.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 01, 2011, 09:58:22 AM
Sounds like a good reason to require employers to use E-Verify.
And fine the hell out of them when they do not.
These developers are idots. There is a housing crsis going on for heavens sake! Florida residents can not even fill the houses that currently exsist.
Quote from: stephendare on April 01, 2011, 09:42:07 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 01, 2011, 05:07:50 AM
QuoteSo um... M-train .. are you saying that a person who is unemployed , regardless of the circumstances , is a deadbeat?
What I would say is that I do not see any way that someone can go 99 weeks without finding some sort of job to help pay for their expenses. Florida is palatable at 26 weeks, half a year, but 73 more? I mean that is staggering. You could change professions multiple times in that span of time.
Really?
What is it about math that is eluding you? There are millions more people than there are jobs.
Well M.... I hope you never become unemployed, struggle for months, possibly years, to find another job, and have to eat your words ....
Quote from: finehoe on April 01, 2011, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 01, 2011, 09:58:22 AM
Sounds like a good reason to require employers to use E-Verify.
And fine the hell out of them when they do not.
The employer is often a gringo pimping a license (if in St Johns County) to a Latino, most often with papers (citizenship, green card, visa) but sometimes he is an illegal immigrant, who then hires the illegals. They write checks to phantom companies and cash those checks for about 3.5% at check cashing outfits who turn a blind eye.
There is no penalty that reaches them, unless the license compliance catches them on the job... but they have pimped paper in that regard. If workers comp comes out, their employer has reported each man on the job for $50 to a staff leasing company, hired by the licensed individual, but nowhere near covers the 60+ hours of work they do in a week. In Duval and Clay counties, the license isn't even an issue. Workers comp is, but they can flout the system by simply having each guy reported for the smallest amount of his actual pay for WC purposes.
The only way to stop it is a call to INS/ICE. That very often goes ignored. It puts citizens at a distinct disadvantage unless we are willing to do similar types of illegal activities, except WTSHTF, we can't run back to the mother country.
IRS? You're kidding, right? Back in the boom days, many illegals (workers, not bosses) actually paid taxes, without the ability to get a refund, so I suppose at some point that might be a wash, but rest assured that new home construction is currently not fully contributing.
I do not think that it is a productive use of resources for a developer to add more homes to what is already considered an overbuilt glut that suffers from low demand. I do not see the good in continuing to further depress the price of housing and to needlessly clear land for the sake of putting up homes that may stay vacant for a while. Furthermore, the ends do not justify the means. Housing construction is not meant to be a 'make work' project. I do not think that the developer intends to be a benevolent private version of the New Deal - offering jobs to the down and out through building subdivisions. From a policy viewpoint, there have to be better avenues to get folks out of the unemployment lines and back to work on more than just stop gap measures...
I see KBH is still making smart decisions. Guess they want to alienate any remaining suckers I mean shareholders
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=KBH
QuoteMy main point was that we can do better with what we build in our city. This development site is well within the inner beltway, be that a good or a bad thing. While it's not contributing to the resource draining sprawl like some new developments off of 103rd, land within the inner beltway should have better planned and denser development on it.
Zis, who really cares if we can do better? I mean, really, I don't see you or Stephen out there on Sunbeam protesting the development, are you really that passionate about one subdivision? Why would this qualify for 10 minutes of debate over say the entire Nocatee complex? Sunbeam road will always and forever be compromised by the landfill, and untill you can do something with the landfill, it will always be a cut through road between US1 and FL 13. So really, why even bother?
Fact of the matter is that the "work" is putting people to work, contributing to the local economy. No matter what you may think about unemployed deadbeats who suck unemployment for 99 weeks and an 11% unemployment rate in Jacksonville, I am all for any and all jobs that contribute to the bottom line in Jacksonville. Any and all jobs, because they provide opportunities for people for a better life.
QuoteWell M.... I hope you never become unemployed, struggle for months, possibly years, to find another job, and have to eat your words ....
Timken, my old self preservation friend, I would never file for unemployment to suck off the tit of the American people, I was not brought up to DEPEND on others for my livlihood. Everything I am and have become, whether you agree or not, is from my OWN doing. So when I go to meet my maker, I can leave the world without regret or having to depend on someone else for what I have created.
Sadly there are others who believe Government was created to support them. I vehemently disagree.
I am a survivor and people who survive find ways to succeed. Stephen is even a misguided survivor from closing his restaurant to becoming a passionate activist who always seems to find a way to make me think, just a bit more from post to post. He has become the Quid to my Quo. :o
QuoteThere are millions more people than there are jobs.
There will ALWAYS be millions of people without jobs. You can never get to 0% unemployment, because of the people who do not want to work, but who would rather live off the government. In Jax, during the last boom, I think the lowest we got to was between 3 and 4 percent. Now at 11 percent, you can do the simple math Stephen, what is 11 percent of the Duval County Population, as compared to 3 or 4 percent?
It isn't either/or.
Your great accomplishments are certainly not yours alone. Certainly the decisions you make have the greatest impact on you economic and social well being. To deny that there were countless others who laid the foundations for you endeavors is just plain silly. If nothing else, you might want to consider the roads you travel upon or the interwebs you post and research with. The examples can keep coming.
Society is the machine we work within, individuals with ideas, labor, and capital are the fuel.
QuoteYour great accomplishments are certainly not yours alone. Certainly the decisions you make have the greatest impact on you economic and social well being. To deny that there were countless others who laid the foundations for you endeavors is just plain silly. If nothing else, you might want to consider the roads you travel upon or the interwebs you post and research with. The examples can keep coming.
Society is the machine we work within, individuals with ideas, labor, and capital are the fuel.
Sure others can help shape you, but ultimately men and women are products of their own decisions. Thanks for the roads that others built, thanks for the planes, and transit systems and the beaches and forests that God made. Without getting philosophies of others involved, I keep it simple. Success is predicated on the decision a person makes, and you alone are responsible for your own decisions, right or wrong. My point is that I am either successful or unsuccessful by the processes I put into motion. I do not rely on others to act for me. I alone act to drive my own success.
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 02, 2011, 08:47:28 AM
QuoteWell M.... I hope you never become unemployed, struggle for months, possibly years, to find another job, and have to eat your words ....
Timken, my old self preservation friend, I would never file for unemployment to suck off the tit of the American people, I was not brought up to DEPEND on others for my livlihood. Everything I am and have become, whether you agree or not, is from my OWN doing. So when I go to meet my maker, I can leave the world without regret or having to depend on someone else for what I have created.
Sadly there are others who believe Government was created to support them. I vehemently disagree.
I am a survivor and people who survive find ways to succeed. Stephen is even a misguided survivor from closing his restaurant to becoming a passionate activist who always seems to find a way to make me think, just a bit more from post to post. He has become the Quid to my Quo. :o
I don't recall anywhere in my posts, saying you would file for unemployment. I don't know you personally, and sure would never presume to know what you did or did not do for yourself. If you are , by your own judgement successful and earned everything all by your lonesome, Good for you ! I salute you. <salute
> For the record, never in my life , have I either.. but I disagree with you on this point.. Unemployment is paid for,in part by you working... I do not view that as sucking off of the Government/ Taxpayers. Welfare may be another story.. I have never applied for either. I too was brought up to work and be self-sufficient. I think most of us were. But there are some out there , who , by no wrong-doing of their own, end up having to ask for unemployment. The entire population of unemployed are not dead-beats. There are circumstances, such as one becoming physically disabled , for which they no longer can work.. Do you consider those people as suckers of the government and people?
If you are self-successful , I genuinely commend you. But never say something unforeseen cannot happen. It can.. and sometimes it does .
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 02, 2011, 09:18:10 AM
QuoteYour great accomplishments are certainly not yours alone. Certainly the decisions you make have the greatest impact on you economic and social well being. To deny that there were countless others who laid the foundations for you endeavors is just plain silly. If nothing else, you might want to consider the roads you travel upon or the interwebs you post and research with. The examples can keep coming.
Society is the machine we work within, individuals with ideas, labor, and capital are the fuel.
Sure others can help shape you, but ultimately men and women are products of their own decisions. Thanks for the roads that others built, thanks for the planes, and transit systems and the beaches and forests that God made. Without getting philosophies of others involved, I keep it simple. Success is predicated on the decision a person makes, and you alone are responsible for your own decisions, right or wrong. My point is that I am either successful or unsuccessful by the processes I put into motion. I do not rely on others to act for me. I alone act to drive my own success.
If you say so...
I'm glad you found the time to write all the books you learned from, before you learned from them. There is so much
given to us by society that continuing the list is pointless.
I can't stand when libs suggest I go to Somalia to enjoy the benefits of a free market, unencumbered by weighty government. I suppose it's because I know I would not have much opportunity to prosper there, but one such as yourself, who has no need for society, with merely the sound decision making skills you posses, would clearly be running the joint in 6 months.
Once you get things settled over there, do drop a line. I always wanted to see Africa.
If only....
Quote from: mtraininjax on April 01, 2011, 05:09:20 AM
QuoteFind me more than 70% of a legal workforce on those jobs, and we can talk about job recovery.
If you were to look, you'd find illegal immigrants, making $80 - $120 per day for 10 -12 hours. Cash. Money laundered at Check Cashing joints by El Jefe.
Yeah, I forgot, none of that money goes to pay for rent, goes to local banks, is used at local restaurants, yeah, simple velocity of money that goes back into the local economy. Yeah, silly me, money from jobs has to come from the right jobs before we can really appreciate the workers.
Actually, one of the big problems with illegal labor is a lot of the money goes back "home".
Quote from: Jaxson on April 01, 2011, 05:59:48 PM
I do not think that it is a productive use of resources for a developer to add more homes to what is already considered an overbuilt glut that suffers from low demand. I do not see the good in continuing to further depress the price of housing and to needlessly clear land for the sake of putting up homes that may stay vacant for a while. Furthermore, the ends do not justify the means. Housing construction is not meant to be a 'make work' project. I do not think that the developer intends to be a benevolent private version of the New Deal - offering jobs to the down and out through building subdivisions. From a policy viewpoint, there have to be better avenues to get folks out of the unemployment lines and back to work on more than just stop gap measures...
It's certainly not a productive use of resources. But developers are like most buisnesses in that they are around to make money. If they are selling tract homes within the guidlines of the current building codes and zoning overlays then so be it. Things won't change until our local government (with the public's help) makes them change. Force them to provide smart infill development through regulations, building restrictions, and/or incentives versus waiting for their hearts to convince them to do so.
Quote from: north miami on March 31, 2011, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 31, 2011, 05:41:16 PM
QuoteThe only 'inevitable' thing about growth based 'employment' is that it is un-sustainable,along with many the many costs externalized to the public.So by embracing-demanding continued "growth" based job 'creation' we are in fact creating a wellfare worker class.
Tell that to the 11% unemployed in Jacksonville, again, be prepared to run.
No question.So this thread quickly veers to the ultimate thread ....population,environment,land/resource base,exponential growth,diminishing margin,Tragedy of the Commons.and Jacksonville Ethos.
In my experience,the ultimate thread soon soars above most attention spans,so i will appropriately sign of on this one from here on out.
Just go back to my earlier post (this date) re the presentation deemed 'too controversial' for the City of Jacksonville sponsored Earth Day celebration.
Classic-per usual,soared above while the posts continued for daze.....er,days.
Not to split the hairs too thinly here...
But Sunbeam and Old Kings - this would be considered suburban infill rather than sprawl, no?