QuoteThe Florida Times-Union
November 4, 2007
Behind the scenes look at courthouse fiasco
By RON LITTLEPAGE
The Times-Union
The new county courthouse - now officially Mayor John Peyton's Folly - is back on. Sort of.
A week and a half ago, the Mayor's Office showed me drawings and plans for a seven-story courthouse with 51 courtrooms that would house both criminal and civil courts.
The price tag was obscene: $363.5 million, which we all know would grow to more than $400 million given Peyton's track record of predicting the cost of building a courthouse.
Mayoral staffers said that at least $100 million would have to be borrowed to finance construction, with annual debt payments of $8 million to $10 million.
That money would have to come out of the city's general fund, even though Peyton is already bellyaching about the city's finances being stretched thin because of reductions ordered by Tallahassee.
Sucking up that much money for a courthouse would mean other priorities, such as parks and combating the city's high number of murders, would go unfunded.
Why would Peyton even consider such a move?
I was told that he feels obligated to build a courthouse because it was included in the Better Jacksonville Plan voters approved and because he's afraid Chief Circuit Judge Donald Moran would sue to force construction of a courthouse if he doesn't build it.
As for Moran, the last time I checked, judges are elected and forcing taxpayers to shell out millions of dollars for a fancy new courthouse most likely wouldn't be politically popular.
As for the Better Jacksonville Plan, the budget included $190 million on a courthouse, not $400 million.
Any plan to spend that much money on a courthouse should be put back on the ballot, and according to Supervisor of Elections Jerry Holland. such a question could be added to the Jan. 29 presidential primary ballot as late as Nov. 29.
Typical of the Peyton administration, the "this is what we are going to do" courthouse plans had changed by early last week.
I was told then the courthouse wouldn't be built because the city had higher priorities for the money, such as solving the murder problem.
Follow the bouncing ball here. By the end of the week, the plans had changed again.
The courthouse was back on the table, including the $400 million version. Or just a new criminal courthouse. Or a smaller criminal and civil courthouse. Or adding to the current courthouse. Or. Or. Or.
The details will be finalized in two weeks, I was told. Don't hold your breath. If building the courthouse requires spending a huge chunk of the general fund, will Peyton put it back on the ballot to see if voters agree?
The answer to that was no.
That would be a mistake.
There are rumblings about a petition to recall Peyton.
Spending an obscene amount on a new courthouse without voter approval when other needs are going unmet and new fees are being put in place to keep the city's finances afloat would only add to that drumbeat.
ron.littlepage@jacksonville.com,
(904) 359-4284
This story can be found on Jacksonville.com at http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/110407/opl_214516646.shtml.
Wow - I realize that some of these problems came from Delaney, but you can only blame so much on the past administration. This guy has now had 5 years to break ground on this thing, and he can't seem to do it. Wow.
Ever wonder how much square footage can we get for $190 million?
Is it cheaper to build out or up? If we build up, could we sell off a portion of the seven block moonscape to make some money back? Is it possible to move some offices into the nearby existing vacant buildings like the old JEA Building on Hogan to reduce the needed square footage?
I'm not saying we can build a complete structure for $190 million, but it would be interesting to know what type of building that could buy.
What could be blamed on Delaney, the original budget allotted? We might not have been able to build the original proposal for the $190 million but now we'relooking at spending twice that. Who in their right mind would "hold-off" a major and necessary construction project under the excuse of "finding a cheaper alternative" when the cost of construction materials continues to rise daily? Tell the judges to shove-it and build the biggest/tallest courthouse possible that meets post 911 standards within a reasonable budget and then sell off the other property to offset the cost so the people of Jacksonville feel like they're getting something for their money. Why is it necessary to gold plate everything associated with this building? Also, don't forget about the potential millions in pending private development that is in limbo because of this fiasco that could be applied to the soon to be strained city budget. Are we missing something? Is there some fatal flaw in that approach?
If Orlando can build a very attractive 24 floor building with 1.5 million square feet of floor space for $183 million then why can't Jacksonville do something similar??? I know their building was completed 10 years ago, but what would it cost to build today?
Quote from: Jason on November 05, 2007, 12:44:57 PM
What could be blamed on Delaney, the original budget allotted? We might not have been able to build the original proposal for the $190 million but now we're looking at spending twice that.
It appears that after sifting through everything, the original design could not be built for the original budget. There were quite a few things not accounted for. For example,the original building say overtop the current intersection of Clay and Monroe Sts. This is significant, because all of Bellsouth/at&t's lines ran under Clay St. For a little while the city tried to push this cost onto Bellsouth - that didn't go so well.
I have to say, the discussion about the courthouse is almost the least damning part of this column. In short, the Mayor has no plan, is wishy washy about what track to follow, and doesnt seem to want to community to vote on it. This does seem to be his MO regardless of the issue.
I agree with Jason. I think the problem is we are so determined to build a traditional looking building that a vertical approach doesn't fit that mold.
That was the criteria for the library and the selection of the orginal courthouse design.
I think the Federal Courthouse proves that traditional and modern work just fine together.
The Orange County Courthouse is a good looking building and I think a good example of what we could do here.
Scale down the footprint and sell the remaining land and if it cost more than the original budget, so what.
Every building project ends up costing more most of the time anyway. In this case every day we wait the cost of materials goes up and up. With the cost of gas rising building materials will just continue to rise too.
Here is the building you are talking about
(http://www.beazleylaw.com/images/Orange_County_Courthouse.jpg)
A beautiful mix of traditional and modern architecture. I wonder what that building would cost today? Probably not $400 million...
There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't already have something similar here in Jax, this is just inept leadership at its best. I am so sick of this whole courthouse issue. I dont even know how the Mayor can't be ashamed of this whole fiasco.
Here's an article with images and prices of recently constructed courthouses in other US cities we ran about a year ago (maybe we should run some of these again), none of which, came anywhere near $400 million dollars.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/283/115/ (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/283/115/)
projects shown, include:
Calgary Courthouse - $280 million (2006) - 1.2 million square feet
Phoenix Municipal Courthouse (1999) - $77.8 million - 375,000 square feet
Scott M. Matheson Courthouse â€" Salt Lake City (2005) - $115 million - 420,000 square feet
Clark County Regional Justice Center â€" Las Vegas, NV (2004) - $185 million - 700,000 square feet
Harris County Civil Justice Center â€" Houston, TX (2005) - $115.5 million - 660,000 square feet
Harris County Criminal Justice Center â€" Houston, TX (2001) - $95 million -
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/courthouses/Calgary-AB.jpg)
Calgary Courthouse under construction in 2006
Here is a skyview of the Orange County Courthouse. Orlando now offers street view, so you can actually look in and see how this building interacts with the street. Its typically Florida suburban style office, but at least they were able to fit the courthouse, support buildings, and parking all in one city block.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=425+N+orange+ave+orlando+fl&sll=28.548621,-81.37893&sspn=0.009311,0.020084&layer=c&ie=UTF8&ll=28.548216,-81.378275&spn=0.002328,0.005021&t=h&z=18&om=1&cbll=28.548283,-81.379115
Well said sdp777. To hear those words from the mouth of someone who was directly involved with the design process says loads about the situation.