The slow market takes out another condo project. I guess you could say this is the negative side of being mixed use, when the market for one of the mixes dries up, delaying the commercial side as well.
QuoteSan Marco development, including Publix, placed on hold
By DIANA MIDDLETON,
The Times-Union
The stormy condo market has stalled yet another housing project: This time, it's a much-anticipated San Marco development that has been delayed for as long as two years.
The East San Marco project, a mixed-use development from Regency Centers and the St. Joe Co., was slated to include a Publix store, five levels of condos and 27,000 square feet of additional retail. Developers say the mixed-use project will open eventually - but much later than the originally projected 2009 opening.
Both Regency and St. Joe are evaluating alternative uses for the project in the wake of the national housing slump, said Brian Smith, Regency's chief investment officer, during a conference call with analysts Thursday. As such, the development's status has been changed from "in-process" to "land held for future development."
The company is going over its options for future development of the site, located on the southeast corner of Atlantic Boulevard and Mango Place, he said during the conference call. (Regency executives would not comment further than what was stated during the conference call.)
The project, which was to total $86 million upon completion, likely will be pushed back 18 months to two years, according to Mike Shalley, a St. Joe consultant and owner of MKS partners, LLC.
"The market is slow, but we are continuing to plan alternatives to the design to change part of the development's uses," said Shalley, who was closely involved in the project's development.
"We're trying to evaluate how quickly the residential market will recover."
To speed up development, the companies are deciding what to do with the five floors of condos (totaling roughly 125 units) that were slated to top the Publix. One idea, according to Shalley, is to convert some of the units to rentals or senior living facilities.
"The perfect storm - a weak market when you're ready to go to market - is always a little disconcerting," he said. "But we're in the midst of exploring different options now."
Publix will definitely remain part of the plan, according to company spokesman Dwaine Stevens.
"What they are looking at is the condo piece of the project, and they have not made any decisions," he said. "As for timing, it will be at least 2010 before this opens ..."
Several other housing or mixed-use projects have hit snags during the downturn.
It was announced earlier this week that The St. John, an all-glass condo that was scheduled to break ground in 2006 and open next year, will be similarly delayed.
The LandMar Group, the developer behind a planned Shipyards condo tower, began doling out refunds to condo purchasers in October. And two condominium towers slated for the St. Johns Town Center will be reworked into an upscale hotel.
The situation stems from enthusiastic over-building in years past, according to Ray Rodriguez, owner of the Real Estate Strategy Center of North Florida Inc.
"It's going to be a couple years before the market begins to recover," he said. "The area has to get rid of the existing inventory and wait until consumer confidence comes back."
It will take a while in Jacksonville, a market where consumers are less apt to splurge than those in bigger cities, Rodriguez said.
That's a sentiment echoed by St. Joe consultant Shalley: "A lot of people who would need to sell their house in order to move to the urban core aren't ready to make those decisions yet," he said.
diana.middleton@jacksonville.com
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/110307/bus_214526829.shtml
I know I'm being a pessimist but I really believe most of the projects that have been put on hold will never happen.
Or worse, changed into something mediocre.
My biggest disappointment is the St John because in my opinion that would be the first truely great looking tall building in Jax.
I also loved the Shipyard tower.
I'm tired of seeing sites like the six blighted looking blocks where the courthouse complex would have been continue to appear.
Why did it need to be 7 blocks to begin with?
Then there are the three empty blocks on eighth and Pearl streets, which I suspect we will have to look at for many more years.
And if there is a downturn in the residential market then I suspect the Hallmark project, although it was only partially residential, on Riverside Avenue will be postponed or become something mediocre.
Back to San Marco, I think most the businesses have closed in the group of shops along Atlantic where Daniels was.
Maybe they will go ahead and raze everything and leave 3 or 4 empty blocks which seems to be the Jacksonville way.
And maybe the JTA will be successful in somehow getting the property on Kings Avenue and they can raze Cady and Cady, Linda Cunningham's and the other building on that block and turn it into high priced bus stop.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 03, 2007, 07:15:20 AM
The slow market takes out another condo project. I guess you could say this is the negative side of being mixed use, when the market for one of the mixes dries up, delaying the commercial side as well.
QuoteSan Marco development, including Publix, placed on hold
By DIANA MIDDLETON,
The Times-Union
The stormy condo market has stalled yet another housing project: This time, it's a much-anticipated San Marco development that has been delayed for as long as two years.
The East San Marco project, a mixed-use development from Regency Centers and the St. Joe Co., was slated to include a Publix store, five levels of condos and 27,000 square feet of additional retail. Developers say the mixed-use project will open eventually - but much later than the originally projected 2009 opening.
Both Regency and St. Joe are evaluating alternative uses for the project in the wake of the national housing slump, said Brian Smith, Regency's chief investment officer, during a conference call with analysts Thursday. As such, the development's status has been changed from "in-process" to "land held for future development."
The company is going over its options for future development of the site, located on the southeast corner of Atlantic Boulevard and Mango Place, he said during the conference call. (Regency executives would not comment further than what was stated during the conference call.)
The project, which was to total $86 million upon completion, likely will be pushed back 18 months to two years, according to Mike Shalley, a St. Joe consultant and owner of MKS partners, LLC.
"The market is slow, but we are continuing to plan alternatives to the design to change part of the development's uses," said Shalley, who was closely involved in the project's development.
"We're trying to evaluate how quickly the residential market will recover."
To speed up development, the companies are deciding what to do with the five floors of condos (totaling roughly 125 units) that were slated to top the Publix. One idea, according to Shalley, is to convert some of the units to rentals or senior living facilities.
"The perfect storm - a weak market when you're ready to go to market - is always a little disconcerting," he said. "But we're in the midst of exploring different options now."
Publix will definitely remain part of the plan, according to company spokesman Dwaine Stevens.
"What they are looking at is the condo piece of the project, and they have not made any decisions," he said. "As for timing, it will be at least 2010 before this opens ..."
Several other housing or mixed-use projects have hit snags during the downturn.
It was announced earlier this week that The St. John, an all-glass condo that was scheduled to break ground in 2006 and open next year, will be similarly delayed.
The LandMar Group, the developer behind a planned Shipyards condo tower, began doling out refunds to condo purchasers in October. And two condominium towers slated for the St. Johns Town Center will be reworked into an upscale hotel.
The situation stems from enthusiastic over-building in years past, according to Ray Rodriguez, owner of the Real Estate Strategy Center of North Florida Inc.
"It's going to be a couple years before the market begins to recover," he said. "The area has to get rid of the existing inventory and wait until consumer confidence comes back."
It will take a while in Jacksonville, a market where consumers are less apt to splurge than those in bigger cities, Rodriguez said.
That's a sentiment echoed by St. Joe consultant Shalley: "A lot of people who would need to sell their house in order to move to the urban core aren't ready to make those decisions yet," he said.
diana.middleton@jacksonville.com
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/110307/bus_214526829.shtml
I have a buddy whose company was working on renting all the spaces in the retail areas below the condos and he seems pretty confident that the Publix will eventually go in their designated area. However, his timetable was around 2010.
QuoteWhy did it need to be 7 blocks to begin with?
EASY MATH,
1 for the Courthouse and sundry buildings
2 for new parking garages
4 for a new JTA BRT Station
Smile! LOL. OCKLAWAHA
I'm so GLAD!!!Screw Publix!!!Ha-Ha!!!Anyone been in a newly renovated W/D lately? It looks about a kabillion times BETTER than any "Publics" Viva Winn-Dixie!!!!Jax don't need anymore "Publics"!!!W/D once made it to the double digits in the F-500; Publics never have.....TRUE urbanists supports their LOCAL stores!!!! 8)
No big surprise. I'd love to see the Publix in that location but it will be a while.
Quote from: I-10east on August 11, 2008, 11:07:05 PM
I'm so GLAD!!!Screw Publix!!!Ha-Ha!!!Anyone been in a newly renovated W/D lately? It looks about a kabillion times BETTER than any "Publics" Viva Winn-Dixie!!!!Jax don't need anymore "Publics"!!!W/D once made it to the double digits in the F-500; Publics never have.....TRUE urbanists supports their LOCAL stores!!!! 8)
Winn Dixie stinks...HOAT! (thats the throw-up noise).
I agree with I-10 east....the new Winn Dixie at the north end of downtown is very nice....and there will never be a Publix in downtown....so I don't want to hear any griping from the food snobs about the lack of a grocery store downtown!
I prefer Winn-Dixie since it is just about comparable in quality in similar locations and is locally based. Why send the money out of town if you dont have to? ???
The Venetia W-D on Roosevelt is very nice and I would recommend it to anyone. The downtown W-D is also nice, has a great view and has everything you need as far as essentials go.
I guess because of the hotels in San Marco, Baptist Hospital doesn't need housing for out of town patients. Otherwise this development could be used like the one Cesery is doing on Main St for Shands.
Thanks Tufsu, and RiversideGator. The W/D on Normandy near FYE might be the best one; It even rivals the DT locaton, and it's bigger!!!!Anyone who shops at Publics are NOT true Duvallers; Publics is an overrated, high-priced, too bright, wanna-be Wal-Mart with those "beautiful" white trusses, and it's boxy set-up; I'll past by forty Publics to get to definitely W/D, Food Lion, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, definitely NAS Jax's commissary, Save A Lot, Save Rite, Piggly Wiggly in South GA, and on, and on. I WILL NEVER SHOP AT PUBLICS; I'D RATHER DIE!!!!!!!!I HATE PUBLICS; Just in case yall didn't realize that.
I was recently in NY on the 5th on this month; On the hip-hop station HOT97 in NYC, Lil' Wanye, and T-Pain's rap song "Got Money" interlude's with "I need a Winn-Dixie grocery bag full of money right now to the VIP section" That song plays in NYC!!!!!!It also plays on our local 93.3, and all over the country!!!!They didn't mention Publics. "Because of Winn-Dixie" is a movie, not because of "you know who"; W/D has Chef Roberts; Who in the hell is Publics' chef? W-D is an old powerhouse; Publics is a 'fly-by-night' compared to W/D. I believe that "certain" type of "rich" to "middle-class" peeps shop at Publics because they "feel safe"; Their wallets aren't safe though. W/D has ALL people there; Rich, poor, black, white, Asian, Hispanic; ALL PEOPLE come to W/D!!!Go W/D; It WILL eventually surpass Publics once and for all! :)
BTW RiversideGator, I agree that the W/D in Venetia is nice, and it's BETTER than any dumb, overrated Publics; Publics, "Where shopping is a displeasure". I'd love to see a W/D commercial "dissin" Publics. ;D
Quote from: RiversideGator on August 12, 2008, 04:27:54 PM
I prefer Winn-Dixie since it is just about comparable in quality in similar locations and is locally based. Why send the money out of town if you dont have to? ???
It's true that there are some very nice Winn-Dixie's out there. I personally love and shop at my local WD in Lakewood (San Jose and University). It is much nicer than the near-by Publix. You can't beat Winn-Dixie beef anywhere. Their steak is tops in my book.
Newer Publix's are a joy to shop at though. They look, feel, and smell clean. They also have a larger assortment of organic products. I really like new Publix stores and I certainly do not see Winn-Dixie rushing to build any new stores in Jacksonville. It is like they have surrendered to Publix anyways. I must however be fair, every developer and their mom wants to build for Publix and almost no one wants to build for Winn-Dixie.
I'm also not sure that Publix is bad for our local economy. They are after-all employee owned and thus the employees see the rewards and wealth of their labor. I think Winn-Dixie concentrates its wealth to a few of it's corporate high ups and stock owners. (I am not sure if they have a stock option plan for their employees) Publix also has a very large presence here in town. I am not too sure Lakeland benefits that much more than Jacksonville when a new store opens up here in town.
I do wish the best for Winn-Dixie though and hope they continue to grow and get better. I will remain a pretty loyal (unless they piss me off somehow).
Peeps that complain about W/D's selection, are WRONG. How bout' Publix at Oakleaf only has about SIX flavors of Kool-Aid; W/D has the BEST SELECTION IN J-Ville!!!Pina-Colada, Watermelon, and Strawberry, and on, and on.
Quote from: chipwichIt is like they have surrendered to Publix always
Yeah, and Albertson WAS once the top grocer; WD is not relinquishing; They are being smart; Time WILL come for a WD expansion. Publics success will not overpower W/D at all. Publics is getting passed by W/D for looks, and prices and Wal-Mart is already ahead of them, so it's not all roses for Publics. Lets see if times get rough at Publics will they survive; WD already has.
Quote from: I-10east on August 12, 2008, 10:48:24 PM
Quote from: chipwichIt is like they have surrendered to Publix always
Yeah, and Albertson WAS once the top grocer; WD is not relinquishing; They are being smart; Time WILL come for a WD expansion. Publics success will not overpower W/D at all. Publics is getting passed by W/D for looks, and prices and Wal-Mart is already ahead of them, so it's not all roses for Publics. lets see if times get rough at Publics will they survive; WD already has.
Publix is getting passed by WD for looks? Care to explain?
^^You go inside of a Publics, then go to a remodeled WD, and you tell me! Please don't be one of these "Publix invented ev'rything concerning grocers" type peeps; Be objective; If you still think that Publix looks better than a remodeled WD from the inside, than that's your opinion; They are MANY that disagree, and some that will agree with ya.
Publix's bright white, and toothpaste aquafresh scheme is a lil' played, compared to WD's vivid beautiful colors and toned down old skool lighting, don't ya think Copper?
Quote from: I-10east on August 13, 2008, 07:08:12 AM
^^You go inside of a Publics, then go to a remodeled WD, and you tell me! Please don't be one of these "Publix invented ev'rything concerning grocers" type peeps; Be objective; If you still think that Publix looks better than a remodeled WD from the inside, than that's your opinion; They are MANY that disagree, and some that will agree with ya.
I'm guessing you or a family member works for W/D... 8)
^^^No, YOU have a family member that works for Publics. ;D
Publix gotta do somethin' about that stupid color scheme! WD HAS passed them. WD has a cult following; Publix is a wanna-be bully on the block, but WD WILL ALWAYS BE A DUVAL COUNTY STORE!!!They are getting better all of the time.
BTW WD has the hottie Nancy Atlas as a singer for them. 8)
Quote from: I-10east on August 13, 2008, 07:27:10 AM
^^^No, YOU have a family member that works for Publics. ;D
Publix gotta do somethin' about that stupid color scheme! WD HAS passed them. WD has a cult following; Publix is a wanna-be bully on the block, but WD WILL ALWAYS BE A DUVAL COUNTY STORE!!!They are getting better all of the time.
BTW WD has the hottie Nancy Atlas as a singer for them. 8)
I go to the WD on Baymeadows/9A when I need to go shopping past 10. It's clean and the people are nice but I prefer Publix. And Publix has changed their color scheme. They also changed their uniforms.
And yes, I do have Publix stock. :)
Quote from: I-10east on August 13, 2008, 07:27:10 AM
^^^No, YOU have a family member that works for Publics. ;D
Publix gotta do somethin' about that stupid color scheme! WD HAS passed them. WD has a cult following; Publix is a wanna-be bully on the block, but WD WILL ALWAYS BE A DUVAL COUNTY STORE!!!They are getting better all of the time.
BTW WD has the hottie Nancy Atlas as a singer for them. 8)
I havent expressed an interest one way or another... while you are clearly a HUGE advocate for W/D. I am sure I was not the only one wondering if there was a connection... :)
Quote from: I-10east on August 12, 2008, 10:05:58 PM
Thanks Tufsu, and RiversideGator. The W/D on Normandy near FYE might be the best one; It even rivals the DT locaton, and it's bigger!!!!Anyone who shops at Publics are NOT true Duvallers; Publics is an overrated, high-priced, too bright, wanna-be Wal-Mart with those "beautiful" white trusses, and it's boxy set-up; I'll past by forty Publics to get to definitely W/D, Food Lion, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, definitely NAS Jax's commissary, Save A Lot, Save Rite, Piggly Wiggly in South GA, and on, and on. I WILL NEVER SHOP AT PUBLICS; I'D RATHER DIE!!!!!!!!I HATE PUBLICS; Just in case yall didn't realize that.
I was recently in NY on the 5th on this month; On the hip-hop station HOT97 in NYC, Lil' Wanye, and T-Pain's rap song "Got Money" interlude's with "I need a Winn-Dixie grocery bag full of money right now to the VIP section" That song plays in NYC!!!!!!It also plays on our local 93.3, and all over the country!!!!They didn't mention Publics. "Because of Winn-Dixie" is a movie, not because of "you know who"; W/D has Chef Roberts; Who in the hell is Publics' chef? W-D is an old powerhouse; Publics is a 'fly-by-night' compared to W/D. I believe that "certain" type of "rich" to "middle-class" peeps shop at Publics because they "feel safe"; Their wallets aren't safe though. W/D has ALL people there; Rich, poor, black, white, Asian, Hispanic; ALL PEOPLE come to W/D!!!Go W/D; It WILL eventually surpass Publics once and for all! :)
BTW RiversideGator, I agree that the W/D in Venetia is nice, and it's BETTER than any dumb, overrated Publics; Publics, "Where shopping is a displeasure". I'd love to see a W/D commercial "dissin" Publics. ;D
Hey, I quoted myself. :) Didn't I tell the truth from the other page? I'm no advocate, just a savvy shopper. Publics......HOAT, HOAT, HOAT!!!!!(three BARF sounds) :)
I have had way to many bad experiences at WD my wife prohibits me from going there. The prices are good though. But Publix has me with the organic-vegetarian section. But I try to visit Grass Roots or Native Sun when I can afford it, like to supporting the local shops.
I have NO interest in organic food; MOST African-Americans don't. Publics has an okay deli, but if I wanna REAL sandwich, I'd go to LUBI'S or FIREHOUSE, or SUBWAY, or Larry's Giant Subs, or Quizno's, not Publics.
Quote from: I-10east on August 13, 2008, 12:07:56 PM
I have NO interest in organic food; MOST African-Americans don't. Publics has an okay deli, but if I wanna REAL sandwich, I'd go to LUBI'S or FIREHOUSE, or SUBWAY, or Larry's Giant Subs, or Quizno's, not Publics.
HA! Subway is a REAL sub? Their cold cuts are disgusting. Sure if you cover them up with bread, veggies and sauce/ dressing it's edible... but try tasting their turkey or ham solo, you will probably gag.
If there is nothing else around but McD's and I am trying to not eat horribly, I will grab a turkey on wheat from there... but come on, Subway for a delicious sub? no freaking way...
I would say publix provides a better quality sub than Subway and Lubi's and is debatable on the rest. The quality of meat is up there with Larry's and the service is better than everyone. Point me to a sub that is better than the Publix Chicken Finger Sub with honey mustard and maybe I'll change my mind.
i love a good "$5 footlong" when i'm around a subway, but I'd have to agree that Publix has a great fresh sub...and their sushi is very good as well. but i'm on the fence because i'll do a major monthly food shop at Winn-Dixie over any other supermarket, simply because you get more for your money. Publix just started doing "buy one get one free" and i'm sure they've noticed a surge in business because they haven't stoppped the program, even though i think it was slated for a promo period. I always knew that going to Publix could add a sum of money to your balance at check-out, but you pay for waht you get in freshness. All in all, WD is best for me economically and still has a great quality of product; Publix is nice if i have to pick something up after work on my way home from the SJTC.
It is Ok to have two grocery chains in Jax. Publix has forced W.D to improve and improve it has. We should always play one against the other for our benefit.
Quote from: jaxlore on August 13, 2008, 12:04:30 PM
I have had way to many bad experiences at WD my wife prohibits me from going there. The prices are good though. But Publix has me with the organic-vegetarian section. But I try to visit Grass Roots or Native Sun when I can afford it, like to supporting the local shops.
Winn-Dixie has a large organic selection now. Check out the W-D on Roosevelt.
And no, I have no business interest in Winn-Dixie. I just like to see local companies do well and I really do think they have greatly improved their stores.