Mayoral candidate Warren Lee proposed this idea last night at the debate. He proposed that the sales tax be increased by one %, with all of the increased money allocated to Duval County Schools.
What are everyone's thoughts on this?
I would be in favor, especially if this would prevent the school board from shutting down sports, art programs, etc, though I think they are just using that as a threat to show how dire the budgetary issue is.
I would be willing to bet that >25% of all sales taxes paid in Duval County are from outsiders anyways. People come from all over to shop, eat, and play in Duval County. So the beauty of the idea is that the full burden wouldn't be put on Duval County taxpayers to make up any budgetary shortages.
Its not like people from South Georgia are going to say, "no lets not go to Jacksonville to shop at River City Marketplace or Town Center because of the 8% sales tax".
Anyone think this is a reasonable solution to our budgetary issues? Is it feasible for a mayor to enact the sales change?
People who have relocated to Jacksonville from other cities are most likely used to paying higher sales taxes (and higher ad valorem taxes). Even Birmingham, AL has a 10% sales tax. 8-9% seem to be the norm for most large cities. From what I remember, Chicago is 11%, which is a bit extreme.
I propose that we do raise sales taxes by another half penny or full penny with a 30 year sunset, and that we increase our overall ad valorem taxes in the COJ to about 22 mil if we increase sales tax to 8% and 23.5 mil if we increase sales tax to 7.5% (my ratios are probably way off, just thinking off the top of my head on how to increase the tax base to a certain higher level with a combo sales tax increase and ad valorem increase...I can't think on the top of my head how the gas tax in Duval affects the budget).
None of my proposed increases are "dramatic" if enacted over a period of a couple years (for the ad valorem...the sales can go into effect immediately).
It would deffinatley help the situation if we can only keep the little fingers of our leaders out of the pot. Unless we've got some politicians with different minds coming into play this probably won't pay the rich republicans that run this city. They've spent years and years defunding our educational system in jax and i don't really see them changing their minds.
That's the case.. We need to vote them out.. We tired of the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer... Sad, cause people accept this time of living.. That's why I have respect for other countries.. They not going to let people run them into the ground especially when they getting off on the citizen.. America = No backbone
Any estimate what a 1% increase would equal in revenue? I agree our sales tax % is low compared to other cities. If it closes the gap on the educational budget and insures higher education level and elective programs - make it 2% or 3% more.
If we're going to talk sales tax increase, I think the discussion should be larger than one issue. This city is suffering in a variety of areas (ex. like port infrastructure expansion) and they all cost money. Maybe the discussion should be about a BJP2 that includes education but also addresses several other areas of need as well.
i feel that such is a reasonable approach to many revenue problems facing all governing bodies. Note that i am stressing revenue in particular. Most opposition would come concerning the principle involved. I can hear it already, " Why should i pay 1% more for schools that don't work?". This is the
simple (not easy) solution to the national deficit, a federal sales tax. Many countries institute such instead of a income tax. Such prevails to, whats known here, as the fair tax.
Anyhow, i salute candidate Lee for putting his campaign on the line with his statement.
Strongly opposed to a federal sales tax here. Strongly opposed. We call that a VAT tax and it stinks to high heaven. Keep it local. I really don't even like the idea of the federal government having their hands in public schools. Again, keep it local or keep it private.
The BJP was a half penny increase that supposedly was forecast to raise $2.2 billion right? That tax was enacted in September of 2000 right? Well around that time anyway. It will sunset in September of 2030. In our region, there is another sales tax that sunsets sometime in 2019. This may be in Clay County, though. Regardless, we have a permanent half penny increase already, so our base in Duval County is 6.5%. If nothing is done, it will be 6.5% again in 2030.
And for estimates, if we are to believe that an additional half percent increase raised $2.2 billion over 30 years, then with our higher population base starting point, perhaps a whole percent increase can raise close to $5-5.5 billion over 30 years. I don't feel like working out any equations right now. I don't know if any numbers in the original BJP were adjusted for minute inflation and I don't know how the city calculates its estimates. I'm sure the final numbers depend on inflation, population growth, income growth, per capita GDP, CPI, etc etc. Purchasing power and spending habits come into play, and both depend on numerous factors.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 15, 2011, 06:15:00 PM
If we're going to talk sales tax increase, I think the discussion should be larger than one issue. This city is suffering in a variety of areas (ex. like port infrastructure expansion) and they all cost money. Maybe the discussion should be about a BJP2 that includes education but also addresses several other areas of need as well.
I'm sorry but too many people pinching from the pot in this city is never a good idea. One tax addition and that amount going to the schools....if you get a bunch of people pulling for the money politics comes into play and that'll fuck it all up.
And educational funding isn't political? Please, there's hardly anything more political.
FWIW, just across the border there is not one politician or state citizen that isn't supporting the Port of Savannah in whichever way necessary. Talk about a unifying factor, everyone in Georgia from metro Atlanta to the rural areas, from the Teapartiers to the Commies, from the rich to the poor, men and women, black and white, gay and straight, Christian and Muslim, you get the picture, supports funding and expanding the Port of Savannah. The funny thing is, it was not difficult to convince anyone of the benefits. Everyone in the state benefits in some way and there is really only one decision to make: fund or not fund.
With education, it's more complex than fund or not fund. It's fund what? Fund how? Why fund? Strings attached? What changes will we need to make to the education system to get enough people on board? Etc etc. There is almost nothing more political than public education funding.
Quote from: simms3 on March 15, 2011, 06:30:03 PM
Strongly opposed to a federal sales tax here. Strongly opposed. We call that a VAT tax and it stinks to high heaven. Keep it local. I really don't even like the idea of the federal government having their hands in public schools. Again, keep it local or keep it private.
Yes, in this application, it would have to be local. I'm ignorant of the impact of the Department of Education on education in America. Its one of the most recently created cabinet posts, we could probably cut a lot of fiscal budget by eliminating this department?
Quote from: thelakelander on March 15, 2011, 06:15:00 PM
If we're going to talk sales tax increase, I think the discussion should be larger than one issue. This city is suffering in a variety of areas (ex. like port infrastructure expansion) and they all cost money. Maybe the discussion should be about a BJP2 that includes education but also addresses several other areas of need as well.
As a Republican... Depending on the details I could support a "targeted" 1% sales tax to fund education. In fact... I have always favored "targeted" taxes. For example... our 7% sales tax... 1% to schools, 2% to x, 2% to y, and 2% for z. I would go one step further... the tax would come up for a vote every two years or have it coincide with the mayoral election...
BT...........thought that was the whole purpose of the "Lottery"? I concur with your general train of thought but have to question whether the taxpayers can sustain another tax increase of any type! Property taxes have increased over the past two years while value's have gone down the hill.........so where do we draw the line as to accountability, something is gone or going wrong!
Agree CS- plus the admin in public school system needs to be drastically cut, not our classrooms. I would agree to a sales tax AFTER the appropriate admin cuts are made, but quit putting all the responsibility on home owners- I believe NON-homeowners children go to school also?
A 1% tax on consumption dedicated to education is a no brainer.
Now I am unclear whether it is a 1% increase in sales tax or an additional 1% tax increase.
How much per year does a 1% additional sales tax garner in Duval county?
Would home schooled households be off the hook?
What's up with JC?
Home schools off the hook? Only when private school families are off the hook and that will never happen!
Citizens of Jacksonville already taxed enough? Don't leave Jacksonville or you may faint at the taxes in every other city across America!
CS Foltz, the millage rate may have increased, but the assessed value of your home most likely went down at the same time. Besides, isn't the millage rate in the COJ somewhere between 17 and 19? Not to mention there is hardly a home in our beloved town that isn't chaulk full of exemptions. If your assessed value went up, you need to appeal to Mr. Overby's office because that would be a mistake on the city's part. Also, it might be worth it to get your house re-appraised. Your assessed value should never exceed 40% of the appraised value of your home (and is likely a lot less), and if you think your home value has decreased faster than the fair value the city assigns it, it's time to check that out and then appeal.
Quote from: CS Foltz on March 15, 2011, 07:43:57 PM
BT...........thought that was the whole purpose of the "Lottery"? I concur with your general train of thought but have to question whether the taxpayers can sustain another tax increase of any type! Property taxes have increased over the past two years while value's have gone down the hill.........so where do we draw the line as to accountability, something is gone or going wrong!
Most of the Lottery money goes to funding Bright Futures scholarships. This doesn't benefit K-12 but it does help to keep those headed to college in state and helps many who may not otherwise afford college.
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/jan/17/more-lottery-money-goes-to-bright-futures-than/ (http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/jan/17/more-lottery-money-goes-to-bright-futures-than/)
QuoteIt's one of the most common questions school officials are asked: what about the lottery money?
In 1986, voters approved the Florida Lottery after being promised its profits would enhance education. While the lottery has provided more than $21 billion to education since it began in 1988, Treasure Coast school officials said it hasn't been a windfall for school districts.
"Does the money go to education? Is the Bright Futures scholarship education?" St. Lucie County Schools Superintendent Michael Lannon said. "Yes, it is, but who benefited? Not K-12; not where it was supposed to go.
Instead, individual school districts in the state receive about $3.42 per student for the entire year to enhance education, estimates Tim Bargeron, the St. Lucie district's assistant superintendent for business services.
For the 2010-2011 budget year, which began July 1, the Florida Legislature appropriated $1.3 billion in lottery money to the Educational Enhancement Trust Fund.
But more of that money goes to the state's debt services at $319 million and into the Bright Futures scholarships, which make up 29 percent or $374 million, than into the classroom.
Indian River County Schools Superintendent Harry LaCava said he believes the public would be shocked to learn the truth about lottery funding.
"The number of advertisements on TV that talk about the lottery funding going to public education over a period of time. I think they will see there might be something called supplanting here," LaCava said. "What's given on one hand was taken away by the other."
After funding scholarships, debt services --which pays for school construction bonds -- and giving universities and community colleges a combined $357 million, there's $250 million remaining for Florida's 67 school districts, Bargeron said.
Of that $250 million â€" which accounts for 19 percent of the $1.3 billion â€" the state designated $129.9 million for school recognition awards, $103.8 million for class size reduction, and $7.3 for workforce development.
That leaves $9 million for the Florida Educational Finance Program, the formula the state uses to fund public schools,
When you divide the $9 million by the approximately 2.6 million Florida students, Bargeron estimates school districts receive about $3.42 per student for the year.
This money is included in the funding formula and is not identified in the budget as lottery money.
Although the law says it's "not to be used as a substitute for existing resources for education," school officials say lottery dollars have been used to replace funding the state provided in the past.
School districts used to receive about 70 percent of lottery education dollars.
In 1997, the state started using lottery dollars to pay for Bright Futures scholarships and fewer dollars were left for other purposes. The Bright Futures scholarship program is meant to keep qualified students in the state by offering cheaper tuition rates and encouraging poorer students to apply for college.
And as the number of students eligible for the scholarships grew, school districts' portion of the jackpot got smaller.
In Bright Futures' inaugural year, 42,319 students statewide shared $70 million of scholarships. In the 2009-2010 school year, 169,366 students split $429 million in scholarships.
Because of the increasing costs, lawmakers changed the popular scholarship in recent years and require students to pay for tuition increases.
One lottery program, which rewards teachers and school staff based on students achievements, is the Florida School Recognition Program.
For maintaining a school grade of an "A" or improving a grade, Treasure Coast school districts received a combined $3.5 million in recognition money based on school grades from last school year.
However, this money, which has declined from $100 per student four years ago to $75 per student, can only be spent on bonuses, classroom materials or equipment and to hire temporary personnel to assist in improving student performance.
If districts have leftovers after distributing recognition money, the state considers it "discretionary lottery money." According to estimates, Treasure Coast school districts' have a combined $205,000 in discretionary money.
For the Martin County School District, its $50,796 in lottery money is about 0.03 percent of its operating budget, Finance Director Bryan Thabit said. He said the district uses the money for school improvement plans.
Yet because districts are required to fund school improvement at $5 per full time student, Thabit said, the district will have to pay a balance of about $38,000 from the district's general budget.
Indian River County School District's Finance Director Carter Morrison said his district will use its $48,709 in lottery money for school improvement, too.
Bargeron estimated St. Lucie has $105,213 in lottery money. However, because the state hasn't released high schools' recognition award amounts, Bargeron said the amount in discretionary can change.
To fund school improvement, the district plans on having to add money from the general operating budget, Bargeron said.
"You can say it with a straight face that lottery funds are going to education," Bargeron said. "But with the decline in student funding, it's not an enhancement, obviously."
If the DCPS does cut extra-curricular activities out of the budget, the private schools will be whooping it up for all of the transfers trying to get in the doors.
Interesting that we haven't heard from any teachers union leader with regards to the budget shortfall.
When Peyton was just looking at city finances the FOP leader was jumping out of his shirt to make noise, yet in this case, nada.
QuoteIt will sunset in September of 2030.
Sunset of a sales tax? LOL!!! Aren't we still waiting for the sunset of the Tolls that Hazouri tore down in the late 80s? Only to hear from JTA that they cannot afford to lose that revenue for their operations? Sunset is an absolute joke. Never happen around here, no one has an original thought on new revenue.
Sales taxes, from what I know from my city buddies, can only be collected for capital projects locally. If you want to raise a tax for DCPS, you would have to do so in Tallahassee. Where, last I checked, the legislators told Gentry and the gasbags at DCPS that they are on the hook for 97 million in cuts. I don't see a tax as on the radar, especially when the DCPS has been shown to be complete idiots for their handling of the 4 failing schools.
I'd only support a 1% tax, if we could clean house of the idiots at DCPS. New leaders with new ideas on tackling these problems. The current ones cannot be allowed to continue.
Quote from: spuwho on March 15, 2011, 10:32:13 PM
If the DCPS does cut extra-curricular activities out of the budget, the private schools will be whooping it up for all of the transfers trying to get in the doors.
Interesting that we haven't heard from any teachers union leader with regards to the budget shortfall.
When Peyton was just looking at city finances the FOP leader was jumping out of his shirt to make noise, yet in this case, nada.
Maybe they can improve their team's sports records with the influx of new athletes.
It really is telling how up in arms people get over this issue, while academic issues remain virtually invisible.
QuoteIt really is telling how up in arms people get over this issue, while academic issues remain virtually invisible.
+1
Gentry is a gasbag who must go!
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 16, 2011, 11:15:20 PM
Gentry is a gasbag who must go!
I'm beginning to wonder about somebosy else as well ;)
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 16, 2011, 11:15:20 PM
QuoteIt really is telling how up in arms people get over this issue, while academic issues remain virtually invisible.
+1
Gentry is a gasbag who must go!
Kinda tells you what is raising the children of this city...and we all wonder why our scores are some of the worse in the counrty...
I don't see why everyone is so suprised on this move. This is par for the course for many republican ran cities...lowering the taxes and defunding and deregulating...and this is what we get...not a dime for kids yet big breaks for the big land owners and corporate big wigs...it's the republican way and if you guys have'nt noticed...republicans run this city..so we must put the blame on them and thiers and then try to get them out of office ASAP. The decisions they made over the past years is what has got us where we are...our conservative mayors and council have spend so much time and money trying to lower the bills for the wealthy and now that we are the cheapest city to live in...our children are going to suffer which makes our community suffer and our leaders kinda asked for it...
GG - I agree with most of what you're saying. But as a DCPS parent, I'll admit it's partly My fault and the rest of the parents who aren't standing up for our schools. My son's only in kindergarten and right now the only parts of school he likes are math, music, and ART. He plays soccer on the weekends, but it's mostly to make friends on our side of town (his school is a downtown magnet). Will he ever be the sports-type? Probably not, but if there's no sports team at his future school to join, there's no sense of PRIDE in being a part of something there.
What disturbs me more is something I recall from a SAC meeting at the neighborhood school I almost allowed him to go to... a few years ago they had to cut their own budget with some feedback from those who would come to give it. What they ended up doing to balance their budget was to eliminate their science lab and the resource/instructor there.
You tell me what part of that wasn't uncomfortable? It wasn't much money, but it was either that or eliminate a teacher, which would've put the whole class size thing in jeopardy.
But SCIENCE, which is a part of FCAT now, was only going to be taught for the test???
It all came down to money. And honestly, if I had a way to fund that position I would've handed over a check that night.
I could go on, but I'm trying to post while working... don't like to get riled up where I can't do much about it.
But for my 2 cents... or rather 1 percent, I would gladly support this idea of a tax increase.