Metro Jacksonville

A kick in the face to Jax....

Mayoral candidates are you listening?  We need a port specialist that can secure funding employed in your office.

http://www.flgov.com/2011/03/04/governor-rick-scott-announces-funding-plan-for-port-of-miami-dredge-project/ (http://www.flgov.com/2011/03/04/governor-rick-scott-announces-funding-plan-for-port-of-miami-dredge-project/)

QuoteGOVERNOR RICK SCOTT ANNOUNCES FUNDING PLAN FOR PORT OF MIAMI DREDGE PROJECT
Directs FDOT to amend work plan to include $77 million for the port

March 4, 2011; Miami â€" Standing before a crowd of hundreds at the Port of Miami today, Governor Rick Scott announced plans to fully fund the $77 million shortfall for the port dredging project so that larger ships can enter the port.

“Today I directed the Florida Department of Transportation to amend their work plan to include $77 million so that Florida can take another leap forward in international trade,” Scott said. “This is the type of infrastructure project that will pay permanent, long-term dividends, and provide a solid return on investment for Florida’s taxpayers.”

Flanked by Senator Marco Rubio, Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart, Congressman David Rivera, and Colombian Ambassador Gabriel Silva, the Governor unveiled his intention to invest in the types of infrastructure projects that have long-term, permanent payoffs. The Port of Miami dredge project is projected to result in 30,000 new jobs for the region in the coming years.

Once the port is dredged to a depth of 50 feet, larger, “New Panamax” ships can load and unload cargo there, enabling the Port of Miami to become a “first port of call” for ships coming through the expanded Panama Canal in 2014.

“This is a solid first step toward enhancing Florida’s infrastructure and getting our state ready for a new generation of international trade with South America and beyond,” said Governor Scott. There are a number of worthy infrastructure projects that deserve our attention, and as Floridians, we know best where our resources should be focused.”

what...Lt. Gov. Carroll couldn't sway him to JaxPort?

to be fair, the Miami dredging project has the Federal approvals already....so this does make sense

Great news for Miami.  Between this, the tunnel project and the grant to construct a rail terminal at their port, they should have the leg up on the rest of the statewide competition for the next decade or so.

This is good for our state. I wish it was Jax but I am glad it is not Savanna.

You think there are a lot of trains crossing the FEC bridge now; just wait.  That and an endless stream of semi-trucks on I-95, tearing it up.

All the more reason to add track for freight and commuter rail. It sounds like if Jax gets it's ducks in a row he would be willing to help with ours as well.

QuoteA kick in the face to Jax....

Mayoral candidates are you listening?  We need a port specialist that can secure funding employed in your office.

I have to disagree. I see Anderson getting out and making a case for Jacksonville to be next in the state for funding from the state for our issues. Tampa's dredging will cost 700 to 750 million, while Jax is a bargain at 600 million and we have more road ways and rail than Tampa.

With regard to more trucks on I-95, I don't see that either. Anyone remember that CSX took some of the money the state paid them from the Orlando tracks to sink into our port area, some 60 million to expand the port tracks and systems here? We have a few years before the Army Corps of Engineers gets a study done, which is plenty of time to fix the dock issues we have, complete Heckscher Drive, add new rail lines and add more jobs to our car and aggregate business. Most people forget we are the 2nd largest processor of automobiles on the East Coast. Our agg business is phenomenol as well. The containers will come, Scott only toured Jacksonville and Miami for ports and Anderson is in his ear!

The money CSX was expected to gain from the State and the Sunrail deal isn't a given at this point.  If Scott kills the Sunrail commuter rail project (the state actually subsidizes this one, unlike HSR), then CSX won't get that $60 million.

Quote from: mtraininjax on March 11, 2011, 01:29:31 AM

QuoteA kick in the face to Jax....

Mayoral candidates are you listening?  We need a port specialist that can secure funding employed in your office.

I have to disagree. I see Anderson getting out and making a case for Jacksonville to be next in the state for funding from the state for our issues. Tampa's dredging will cost 700 to 750 million, while Jax is a bargain at 600 million and we have more road ways and rail than Tampa.

With regard to more trucks on I-95, I don't see that either. Anyone remember that CSX took some of the money the state paid them from the Orlando tracks to sink into our port area, some 60 million to expand the port tracks and systems here? We have a few years before the Army Corps of Engineers gets a study done, which is plenty of time to fix the dock issues we have, complete Heckscher Drive, add new rail lines and add more jobs to our car and aggregate business. Most people forget we are the 2nd largest processor of automobiles on the East Coast. Our agg business is phenomenol as well. The containers will come, Scott only toured Jacksonville and Miami for ports and Anderson is in his ear!

So now I know why the earth quaked in Japan this (tomorrow) morning! MTRAIN AND OCK AGREE AGAIN!
Even if this went completely against us on the nautical side because of our unique position on the railroad map, we still will see huge gains in rail traffic...IE: Walmart's all over the southeast are eagerly awaiting more Chinese junk. Those trains, won't be blowing right through town either, in Jacksonville they'll fuel, change crews, and in many cases be switched out meaning hundreds of new railroad jobs.

I do wish we would kick it into high gear and get this done BEFORE the ships start to sail, which might allow us to capture a few more carriers at the port. It should be easy to take advantage of Miami's crowded conditions and the extra 300 mile transit bill added to everything that comes in there and moves out to other states.

Our position as a "Super Port," is already fixed in the US House, and Miami is the only other port in the state to be on that radar...and face it South Floridian's, Miami has at least 3 acres they could expand in... unless they decide to pump up a few more islands! All we have for expansion is the entire north half of Duval County and little sister Fernandina to the north.



OCKLAWAHA

QuoteIf Scott kills the Sunrail commuter rail project (the state actually subsidizes this one, unlike HSR), then CSX won't get that $60 million.

Lake, I don't think that will happen as I have seen the State Senators who have serious power will fight Scott on this and right now, Scott, needs their support for Education and Medicare reforms. It might happen, but I doubt it.

QuoteMTRAIN AND OCK AGREE AGAIN!

Full Moon? Nice picture of the Rail America locos!

It should be interesting to see how the Sunrail issue plays out.  If approved, he'll look like a hypocrite and it would go against the desires of the tea party.  If rejected, it will piss off some major Republican players.

Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2011, 06:02:02 PM
It should be interesting to see how the Sunrail issue plays out.  If approved, he'll look like a hypocrite and it would go against the desires of the tea party. 

I think the fat cats that were on the take for the HSR project might attempt to crank up their propaganda machine. As fay once said "SUNRAIL=SPRAWLRAIL" a statement that came right out of HIGH SPEED RAIL CENTRAL, back when they were trying to make it an us against them issue. Moreover the concept of a commuter train running through the heart of the historic communities in Central Florida is a hell of a lot less of a "SPRAWL STARTER" then a flying train past the pine trees in the middle of I-4. Again, I'm with MTRAIN, and think Scott won't torch Sunrail, it is the ONE MAJOR RAIL PROJECT THAT IS MOST NEEDED IN ANY FLORIDA REGION. The FEC project could likewise be labeled the longest lived and MOST DESIRED PIECE OF PASSENGER RAILROAD IN THE NATION, and it might fly too.

It would be easy to make a case that SUNRAIL and FEC RY/AMTRAK are projects that are tried and true, tested and needed, and that the HSR PROJECT was the wrong plan, at the wrong time IE: back to the drawing board.

OCKLAWAHA

The St. Pete paper mentioned Scott has just extended his delay on Sunrail for several months. The paper also mentioned that the cities of Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando will be allowed to compete for Florida's lost $2.4 billion, as long as they work with an existing transportation entity like Amtrak.

Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2011, 09:02:07 PM
The St. Pete paper mentioned Scott has just extended his delay on Sunrail for several months. The paper also mentioned that the cities of Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando will be allowed to compete for Florida's lost $2.4 billion, as long as they work with an existing transportation entity like Amtrak.

If they work with AMTRAK... and as the only American Corporation with HSR experience...THEY SHOULD, we MIGHT see this PIE IN THE SKY thing come back down to earth. With the speed of telephone, Amtrak COULD broker a deal with CSX and TALGO, all of which are ALREADY AMTRAK PARTNERS! It sounds promising.

OCKLAWAHA

Here are the articles Lake referenced above

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/11/111840/scott-delays-sunrail-contracts-until-at-least-july/news-politics/

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/11/112022/feds-to-give-away-24-billion-in-rail-funds-that-fl/news-politics/

Ock...don't get your hopes up....even if the cities/Amtrak get the money, this thing will not use CSX tracks west of Lakeland....and the reality is using CSX tracks east of Lakeland means opening up all the environmental studies again...which means delays...USDOT liked the Florida project because it had all approvals and could be built relatively quickly.

Quote from: tufsu1 on March 12, 2011, 12:19:06 AM
Here are the articles Lake referenced above

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/11/111840/scott-delays-sunrail-contracts-until-at-least-july/news-politics/

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/mar/11/112022/feds-to-give-away-24-billion-in-rail-funds-that-fl/news-politics/

Ock...don't get your hopes up....even if the cities/Amtrak get the money, this thing will not use CSX tracks west of Lakeland....and the reality is using CSX tracks east of Lakeland means opening up all the environmental studies again...which means delays...USDOT liked the Florida project because it had all approvals and could be built relatively quickly.

Better to open up environmental studies and set the date back some more then build a railroad that crashes.

OCKLAWAHA

They should just do us all a favor and send that money right over to Fresno and Bakersfield.

QuoteBetter to open up environmental studies and set the date back some more then build a railroad that crashes.

+1

Measure twice, cut once.

Orlando Sentinel article, pretty interesting: 

________________________________________________


Hours after rejecting Florida's high-speed train, Gov. Rick Scott declared the state would spend $77 million on dredging the Port of Miami â€" a project he said would create 30,000 permanent jobs.

But some experts contend digging out the Miami channel will not boost employment by anywhere near that number, much less ensure more shipping to the port.

Among those expressing doubts are Robert Poole. a Libertarian researcher whose criticism of high-speed rail was instrumental in Scott's decision to kill the $2.7 billion project.

"That strikes me as a very big number," Poole said of the Miami jobs projection. "I don't have any idea where they came from."

Scott said he supports dredging because the Panama Canal is being widened to enable much larger cargo ships to pass through its locks by 2014. That, in turn, will allow the massive ships access to the Gulf of Mexico and the East Coast.

The four major ports in Florida are too shallow to accommodate such freighters, and only Miami has all the permits necessary to begin the work and be ready within three years.

"This is a solid first step toward enhancing Florida's infrastructure and getting our state ready for a new generation of international trade with South America and beyond," Scott said in a statement.

The employment projection, Scott spokesman Brian Burgess said, comes from a study by the Florida Chamber Foundation in December.

The 48-page report looks for ways to improve Florida's economy. It predicted 32,000 jobs could be created and supported annually if the state takes on and completes a number of major steps, including deepening Miami's port from 43 feet to 50 feet. Among the other changes would be:

Capturing an undetermined "larger share" of the port business of unloading imported goods from Asia.

Expanding Florida's overall exports by filling empty import containers with goods from the state, which in turn could attract advanced manufacturing and other related export industries.

The state emerging "as a global hub for trade and investment."

It offered no timetable for when all the new jobs would be created.

Poole and others also say that improving Miami's port does not necessarily mean more ships â€" especially the larger ones â€" will gravitate there. Other major investments are needed, they said.

"The big ships don't change the size of the market," said Tampa Port Director Richard Wainio.

Right now, goods delivered to the Miami port largely supply South Florida. To grab a bigger share of the shipping business, Miami would have to increase its local demand, or move the goods farther north or south, experts say.

That may not happen for at least two reasons, said Wainio and Mark Vitner, a top economist who studies Florida for Wells Fargo Securities.

It's cheaper to keep the goods on the ship, Vitner said, and head north to other ports that have better access to the Southeast, such as Norfolk, Va. â€" where the port already is deep enough â€" Savannah, Ga., or Jacksonville, both of which are too shallow for mega-ships and do not have the permits ready like Miami. Goods for southern trade could continue being offloaded at Caribbean ports.

More problematic for Miami, Poole said, is its road and rail network. There is no major rail spur in the Miami port and the roads already are clogged with traffic, he said. Expanding the roads may well be too expensive, Poole said.

In 2007, Poole wrote a paper suggesting the construction of a toll road leading to and from the port that would be mostly for trucks. That could cost $1 billion or more, likely making the tolls too high for truckers to afford on a regular basis, he said.

The state already is spending $1 billion building twin tunnels linking the MacArthur Causeway east of downtown Miami with the port. They would get the trucks out of downtown, but still place them on already crowded highways such as Interstate 95.

Without additional major rail and road improvements, Poole and Vitner said, it is unlikely ships would deliver goods in Miami slated for Central and North Florida, much less the Southeast.

"It's a logistic chain, of which the ship is one link in the chain," Wainio said.

Burgess, the governor's spokesman, said the state is aware that more needs to be done and is looking at ways to improve the transportation of goods and cargo.

"The governor is confident that the Port of Miami project is an effective way to position Florida as a global economic hub in the coming years," he said.

dltracy@tribune.com or 407-420-5444.


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-port-miami-dredging-20110316,0,6277751.story

Poole must have overlooked the latest Tiger grant round.  Miami won a grant to bring rail back to their port.  Nevertheless, I tend to agree with the general idea that a deeper channel doesn't automatically mean more jobs and shipping.

Here's an opinion piece from today's T-U from a former Port exec who questions pumping money into dredging for Jax Port as well.    http://jacksonville.com/opinion/letters-readers/2011-03-16/story/guest-column-lets-slow-down-rush-raise-taxes-jaxport

QuoteMore problematic for Miami, Poole said, is its road and rail network. There is no major rail spur in the Miami port and the roads already are clogged with traffic, he said. Expanding the roads may well be too expensive, Poole said

Jacksonville's big advantage over Miami is its current muli-modal links to the Midwest.

A container off loaded in Savannah, will more than likely travel through Jacksonville by road.  This is why it is critical to capture that container offload in Jacksonville's port so that Jacksonville can fully benefit from the Post-Panamax boon.

He makes some good points:

Quoteit should have been maintaining and upgrading its facilities over the years.

or done the smart thing: privatize the entire port operation, including maintenance.

There are carriers(shipping and rail) that want to call on JaxPort who have been shut out of the process b/c of existing relationships with Crowley(who doesn't invest in Jacksonville whatsoever, which is the exact opposite in Oakland/LA) and CSX(ditto).  Privatizing is not a bad option.  Especially since JaxPort has essentially no dedicated business development team. 

Also, exploring a short shipping agreement with Savannah should also be explored.

And the city has done no favors to the port over the years.  While Talleyrand was falling into the water in the late 70's(and STILL is today) the city in its infinate wisdom decided to stop giving money to JaxPort.  The repercussions of that decision(and continued lack of maintenance) still wants our facilities to this day.

But he is wrong about this:

QuoteJaxPort does not, and never will, generate outbound cargo that needs an expensive deeper channel, and I seriously doubt that super ships would call at Jacksonville in lieu of going to ports that are nearer to most final cargo destinations

That's simply not true.

I tend to agree that I am VERY leary of a sales tax extension to fund port expansion... very leary.

But to say that Jacksonville isn't UNIQUELY positioned to benefit from post-Panamax container traffic is exactly the kind of short-sighted thinking this city has demonstrated for decades.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for our community.  We've had a ditch out there for centuries that has been profitable and all we've done is ignored it... it's past time to make a decision if we are truly a port city and get in the business of actually ACTING like a port city.

I will echo, again until I'm blue in the face, that it is critical our new mayor appoints a funding specialist in the mayor's office solely dedicated to securing port money.

with all the talk about ports what about tampa port, tampa is the closest to mexico and Panama Canal and we have freight track to the port and we are building a new truck route.

It's still cheaper to keep it on the ships and ship it further north, closer to rail hubs and major metropolitan areas.

Rail and truck cannot compete with ships when it comes to moving tons efficiently.  Lets continue to be a specialty port at our present size.  Everything is not going to be shipped by post-panamax ships.

We need to look to South America, the Caribbean and Europe for our freight, not just Asia.

Quotewith all the talk about ports what about tampa port, tampa is the closest to mexico and Panama Canal and we have freight track to the port and we are building a new truck route.

Go look up the Tampa ports and their estimated expenses for Post-Panamax, its closer to 750 million, compared to Jacksonville at 600 million. Plus Jax has better rail and interstate systems. Jax is a no-brainer after Miami.

Here are two reasons why Miami is at a hugggeeee disadvantage and should not be made a priority East Coast seaport:

1) Goods are trucked generally distances of 6 hours driving time or less.  Miami is too far south in Florida to serve any major markets by the cheap/easy trucking industry.  It takes 1-2 hours for a truck just to leave Miami's metro and another 5-6 hours to reach the state line without any incidents.

2) That leaves rail as Miami's only option.  Unfortunately for Miami, it suffers from some of the heaviest rail congestion in the country and in logistics every second counts.

Throwing dollars at Miami before speeding up the process to be able to throw dollars at Jacksonville is shortsighted.  In today's limited budgets, it probably would have actually been more prudent to speed up the Army Corps study here, the environmental impact study here, and to push for funds here first.  Miami may be able to fit larger ships than us, but it has no room to actually expand and build more terminals.  We do.

Miami's new cranes just came in...

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/floridatrend/12376/portmiami--post-panamaxed.jpg)

QuoteThe post-Panamax era in Florida came one step closer to reality in October, when four 25-story-tall cranes arrived at PortMiami after a nearly three-month journey from Shanghai.

http://www.floridatrend.com/article/16565/portmiami-post-panamaxed

That's crazy that they crossed the ocean like that.

Quote from: thelakelander on December 23, 2013, 11:40:11 PM
Miami's new cranes just came in...

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/floridatrend/12376/portmiami--post-panamaxed.jpg)

QuoteThe post-Panamax era in Florida came one step closer to reality in October, when four 25-story-tall cranes arrived at PortMiami after a nearly three-month journey from Shanghai.

http://www.floridatrend.com/article/16565/portmiami-post-panamaxed

How did that boat not roll over?  Guess they're playing some games with cantelievered weights...  Would not want to be working on that ship on such a long haul with a load like that!!