Last night I was trying to meet up with some people at Artwalk coming from Riverside. I tried to do what I had done last month and park to the NW of Hemming Plaza, but when I was going North on Hogan, I wasn't allowed to go beyond Church St. Being that I was in one way street land, this sparked a series of right turns and crazy navigation looking for a spot. When I crossed Laura on church, I noticed that everything to the norh was blocked off and it looked like cones were set up to accommodate FBC. I guess the scheduled something last night and we were interrupting. So sorry FBC. How stupid of us to plan an art festival during your event.
Anyway, I ended up paying to park at the library garage because I couldn't deal with the hassle. I then proceeded to lock myself in an alley, which meant I had to climb a 10 ft fence to escape, but that's another story for another time.
They have church services on Wednesday night. When I go to Art Walk, I always try to park on the eastern end of Downtown, near Liberty, Monroe, Market Street always plenty of on street spots! no hassles.
Captain, next time try parking west of Julia (one block west of Hemming). No matter what the event is, the spaces on these streets (Adams, Duval, Church, Ashley) rarely fill up.
Every Wednesday they have a night session. They have been doing it for years. Way before art walk was around. I'm not a member, but any Wednesday you cut through downtown they have streets rerouted. Do we say the Jags hate small downtown shops when they rearrange all the traffic after the game? No! FBC owns so much downtown they just buy the cops and accommodate their follows. FBC does need to open their grip up on downtown but I promise you it won't be on Sundays or Wednesdays
There is plenty of parking down buy the new courthouse. And meters are free after 7. So u spend 50 cent around 6pm and your good to go
I parked right in front of the old London Bridge around 6:30... lucky? Art walk was pretty fun last night... :)
QuoteFBC owns so much downtown they just buy the cops and accommodate their follows.
Do they have any right to do this? My church has Wednesday night services as well, so I understand what the function was, but my issue is that they think they can commandeer downtown when a major event is going on. The church should embrace the fact that they are downtown and do as much as they can to support it, not wall themselves off from it.
Next time I'll try parking at Julia and Adams. I was in a rush, so I didn't fully explore my options, but I was stuck on Church anyway so it shot me East from that area.
Artwalk was Packed last night!
There are so many things I want to say about FBC, but I cannot express due to the risk of being compromised or damage to my reputation. I can say that there is definitely sparks coming from the friction between myself and FBC. This kind of situation just only fuels my frustration further.
-Josh
Quote from: Pottsburg on March 03, 2011, 08:50:02 AM
There is plenty of parking down buy the new courthouse. And meters are free after 7. So u spend 50 cent around 6pm and your good to go
Meters are free after 6pm, but parking enforcement normally closes up shop at 5pm.
yeah, i never feed a meter after 5pm
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2011, 09:04:19 AM
Quote from: Pottsburg on March 03, 2011, 08:50:02 AM
There is plenty of parking down buy the new courthouse. And meters are free after 7. So u spend 50 cent around 6pm and your good to go
Meters are free after 6pm, but parking enforcement normally closes up shop at 5pm.
actually the new meters on Laura Street are free aftr 5pm....guess they aren't even trying to fake people into thinking parking police work past 5
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2011, 08:54:11 AM
QuoteFBC owns so much downtown they just buy the cops and accommodate their follows.
Do they have any right to do this? My church has Wednesday night services as well, so I understand what the function was, but my issue is that they think they can commandeer downtown when a major event is going on. The church should embrace the fact that they are downtown and do as much as they can to support it, not wall themselves off from it.
Next time I'll try parking at Julia and Adams. I was in a rush, so I didn't fully explore my options, but I was stuck on Church anyway so it shot me East from that area.
Artwalk was Packed last night!
It's prob not entirely legal but they could always say it has to do with public safety. So FBC prob rents those cops for safety concerns an then tells them what streets to block off. Anyways it's not a fight I would choose to take up. So I guess the answer to this thread is No they aren't trying to stop anything. I honestly thing if they really wanted to try and stope ArtWalk it would have already been shut down. Just give yourself plenty of time to find parking.
I typically luck out and get a spot close by in a loading zone, they are only no parking until 6pm, but seems people still avoid them because they just see "no parking"
FBC, where is the razzleberry icon?
Quote from: Pottsburg on March 03, 2011, 08:47:07 AM
Every Wednesday they have a night session. They have been doing it for years. Way before art walk was around. I'm not a member, but any Wednesday you cut through downtown they have streets rerouted. Do we say the Jags hate small downtown shops when they rearrange all the traffic after the game? No! FBC owns so much downtown they just buy the cops and accommodate their follows. FBC does need to open their grip up on downtown but I promise you it won't be on Sundays or Wednesdays
OH MY GOD! Way out here in the hinterlands of St. Johns County's WGV, there is a Catholic Church, and GASP, they also have traffic direction - INCLUDING STOPPING CARS ON SR-16, in order to let the sinners in or let the saints out... Doesn't bother me a bit - God knows we need more saints on our streets.
Catholics do it a bit different by having services many times weekly - take your pick. The Mormons have a totally different system too, they divide any town or city into roughly 200 member congregations, neighborhood by neighborhood, live in such and such neighborhood and you ARE IN such and such "WARD." Several Wards will use the same church plant on Sunday and throughout the week. 1st Ward meets at 8, 2nd Ward meets at 10 etc. FBC is big enough in the Baptist World that they create their own tourism and the only part of the streets plans ever completed were done by FBC. Just think we could kick them out and gain another Park View Inn! OCKLAWAHA
I'm no fan of FBC, but I think that they are only trying to move a couple of thousand people in and out of Wednesday night services smoothly and with minimal disturbance of the traffic flow.
The title of this thread seems to be more inflammatory than necessary.
QuoteThe title of this thread seems to be more inflammatory than necessary.
Our motto... :D :o
Quote from: Dog Walker on March 03, 2011, 10:48:15 PM
I'm no fan of FBC, but I think that they are only trying to move a couple of thousand people in and out of Wednesday night services smoothly and with minimal disturbance of the traffic flow.
The title of this thread seems to be more inflammatory than necessary.
Agree, but they could do a better job of it- like maybe that couple of thousand people do not all need to drive? Maybe the park them over at them over past Broad street in the vacant neighborhood and bus them in? Try walking from Springfield to the art walk and dodge all the Church goers who do not even understand why anyone should be GASP walking DT! It is not just FC either, Bethel believes they own first street and either have it blocked off (or blocked by cars) everyother day, or the church on King st., or even the big ol baptist church on Main, try travelling Main when church is going on- all four lanes are a nightmare. I have never seen anything like that before, only in JAX does commerce shut down, and citizens are forced to wait for thousands of church goers all over DT.
It is funny though how FBC does everthing they can to keep themselves seperate and unequal to the rest of the city though...i've seen so many instences where they behave as though they has special rules just for them.....oh im sorry...they do...
Quote from: uptowngirl on March 04, 2011, 06:47:39 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on March 03, 2011, 10:48:15 PM
I'm no fan of FBC, but I think that they are only trying to move a couple of thousand people in and out of Wednesday night services smoothly and with minimal disturbance of the traffic flow.
The title of this thread seems to be more inflammatory than necessary.
Agree, but they could do a better job of it- like maybe that couple of thousand people do not all need to drive? Maybe the park them over at them over past Broad street in the vacant neighborhood and bus them in? Try walking from Springfield to the art walk and dodge all the Church goers who do not even understand why anyone should be GASP walking DT! It is not just FC either, Bethel believes they own first street and either have it blocked off (or blocked by cars) everyother day, or the church on King st., or even the big ol baptist church on Main, try travelling Main when church is going on- all four lanes are a nightmare. I have never seen anything like that before, only in JAX does commerce shut down, and citizens are forced to wait for thousands of church goers all over DT.
I agree. While I have my own issues with our quasi-theocracy in Jacksonville, I have to add that there is a church in the Mandarin area that does something similar to traffic patterns on San Jose Blvd. Each Sunday, this church enlists the help of the JSO to ensure that their congregants efficient access.
I agree with the previous poster who mentioned parking west of Hemming Park. I notice that I find it easier to park on or around Julia Street when I arrive at ArtWalk after 6PM. During the summer, when I am able to get there earlier, I find it easier for me to park east of Main Street on either Duval or Church Streets.
Quote from: Garden guy on March 04, 2011, 07:35:10 AM
It is funny though how FBC does everthing they can to keep themselves seperate and unequal to the rest of the city though...i've seen so many instences where they behave as though they has special rules just for them.....oh im sorry...they do...
I'm 80% in agreement with you there GG. That's a first.
QuoteThe title of this thread seems to be more inflammatory than necessary.
If the title was 'FBC prevented me from parking where I normally park' would you have read it??
Yes, it was purely personal experience that prompted the creation of this thread, but I think it sheds light on a viewpoint that I have held for quite some time. FBC needs to embrace and reach out to the community it calls home. The church I attend had programs almost daily for our neighbors on King Street that featured free food, fellowship, and fun. Unfortunately, we're now located in Southpoint. Just as many troubled souls, but their vices are a bit different.
Besides, Stephen Dare is my friend. Why wouldn't I use an overly inflammatory title?? The student has become the teacher!! ;)
FBC does want to reach out and embrace the community......and crush and control it! But I still don't think that they even notice Art Walk.
And yes, with that weird a title, we all would have read it. ;D ;D
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 03, 2011, 08:38:03 AM
Anyway, I ended up paying to park at the library garage because I couldn't deal with the hassle. I then proceeded to lock myself in an alley, which meant I had to climb a 10 ft fence to escape, but that's another story for another time.
On a lighter note...I believe I have scaled that same 10ft fence after finding myself trapped in what I believe to be the same alley Captain.
^ They really need to put a note at the bottom of the stairwell saying 'you probably don't want to go out this way'.
The actual time required to scale the fence was brief, but I ended up bruising my legs.
I completely concur Captain...I had no clue what I was walking into
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 04, 2011, 10:08:11 AM
^ They really need to put a note at the bottom of the stairwell saying 'you probably don't want to go out this way'.
The actual time required to scale the fence was brief, but I ended up bruising my legs.
You really must tell the story!
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2011, 09:04:19 AM
Quote from: Pottsburg on March 03, 2011, 08:50:02 AM
There is plenty of parking down buy the new courthouse. And meters are free after 7. So u spend 50 cent around 6pm and your good to go
Meters are free after 6pm, but parking enforcement normally closes up shop at 5pm.
the key word is 'normally". They're just trying to set everyone up for a giant parking ticket swaray someday.
I have lived DT for 8 years now and am not a church-goer. I have found all the DT churches to be pretty good neighbors including FBC. I like to think of church services, weddings and funerals as just some other DT events that bring folks to my 'hood.
I wonder what Mr Hogan thinks about this?
I wonder if FBC will eventually own all of Downtown ,except the Government buildings?
Or, with the FBC members on Council and (please, no) the Mayor's Office, and political pressure on the others, choke off any "non compatible" activity in DT.
1. Be glad we have a vibrant DT one night a month.
2. Embrace tolerance and diversity.
3. Ride the Skyway.
4. Art walk could be on the first Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday night of each month.
Spoken as someone who never gets DT at night, except Wednesday and then only to be waived through traffic and rushed into church....DT is vibrant on other nights, it just seems sad that one group escalates their own needs over every other, including the people who actually LIVE here. That being said, your point is well taken. The core has been talking forever about going out to YOUR neighborhood with the homeless and feeding/clothing them, rerouting traffic for meetings that makes it hard for you to get to your home, and of course leaving all the debris behind that all of this entails for YOU to pick up.
One day DT will be treated like the jewel it is, not the outhouse some want it to be.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on March 06, 2011, 04:46:50 PM
Or, with the FBC members on Council and (please, no) the Mayor's Office, and political pressure on the others, choke off any "non compatible" activity in DT.
I'd love to know exactly how many council memebers go the FBC...anyone know?
As someone who goes downtown at night about 3-4 times a week, including Art Walk, I have NEVER had an issue parking or accessing downtown b/c of FBC.
Some of you guys/gals need to take a deep breath and relax.
Full disclosure: I am not a member of FBC nor am I Baptist.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 04, 2011, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 04, 2011, 10:08:11 AM
^ They really need to put a note at the bottom of the stairwell saying 'you probably don't want to go out this way'.
The actual time required to scale the fence was brief, but I ended up bruising my legs.
You really must tell the story!
As you wish...........
When I couldn't find a spot, I parked at the garage just north of the Library. I was on the third floor, so I had to get down to the street. Being in a good mood, I declined a man who was holding the elevator for me, as I wanted to take the stairs. At the time, I was on the phone chatting with a friend I was supposed to meet up with at Hemming Plaza. I jogged down the stairs and hit the first floor. There was only one unmarked door leading out the other side of the stairwell on the first floor. Thinking it led directly outside, I pushed the door open and walked through.
Before I could react, the door closed behind me. I looked to the left at the street and noticed a 10 foot iron fence with a pad lock between either side. I tried to open the door I entered through, but it was locked. All around me were 4 story concrete walls and locked doors. The alley was only about 40 feet deep and 15 feet wide, but it was very isolated. I looked out on the street and saw noone, so I decided my only option was up and over the fence. The whole time I was explaining my predicament to my friend, who was half laughing-half concerned. Realizing I wouldn't be able to scale the fence phone in hand, I asked if I could call her back. The response was 'Yeah....That's probably best.'
I put the phone away, zipped up all jacket pockets, put my wallet in my front pockets, and fetched up my jeans. This wasn't a chain link fence, so I had nothing horizontal to use until the top of the fence. Luckily, there was a power outlet anchored to one of the vertical poles. I managed to jump onto the power outlet and from there to the top of a dumpster. Then, in a half skilled fashion, i leaped from the dumpster to the top of the fence. I was mostly over the fence when my right leg snagged on a spike on the top of the fence. I managed to stop my momentum, free my leg, and swing myself onto the ground. Luckily, only 2 emo girls saw this whole fiasco. I brushed myself off and went on to meet my friend. It wasn't until 2 days later that the massive bruise started to form above my right knee.
So, if you're in the library garage, DONT TAKE THE STAIRS ALL THE WAY TO THE FIRST FLOOR!!!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 07, 2011, 09:51:19 AMAs you wish...........
When I couldn't find a spot, I parked at the garage just north of the Library. I was on the third floor, so I had to get down to the street. Being in a good mood, I declined a man who was holding the elevator for me, as I wanted to take the stairs. At the time, I was on the phone chatting with a friend I was supposed to meet up with at Hemming Plaza. I jogged down the stairs and hit the first floor. There was only one unmarked door leading out the other side of the stairwell on the first floor. Thinking it led directly outside, I pushed the door open and walked through.
Before I could react, the door closed behind me. I looked to the left at the street and noticed a 10 foot iron fence with a pad lock between either side. I tried to open the door I entered through, but it was locked. All around me were 4 story concrete walls and locked doors. The alley was only about 40 feet deep and 15 feet wide, but it was very isolated. I looked out on the street and saw noone, so I decided my only option was up and over the fence. The whole time I was explaining my predicament to my friend, who was half laughing-half concerned. Realizing I wouldn't be able to scale the fence phone in hand, I asked if I could call her back. The response was 'Yeah....That's probably best.'
I put the phone away, zipped up all jacket pockets, put my wallet in my front pockets, and fetched up my jeans. This wasn't a chain link fence, so I had nothing horizontal to use until the top of the fence. Luckily, there was a power outlet anchored to one of the vertical poles. I managed to jump onto the power outlet and from there to the top of a dumpster. Then, in a half skilled fashion, i leaped from the dumpster to the top of the fence. I was mostly over the fence when my right leg snagged on a spike on the top of the fence. I managed to stop my momentum, free my leg, and swing myself onto the ground. Luckily, only 2 emo girls saw this whole fiasco. I brushed myself off and went on to meet my friend. It wasn't until 2 days later that the massive bruise started to form above my right knee.
So, if you're in the library garage, DONT TAKE THE STAIRS ALL THE WAY TO THE FIRST FLOOR!!!
That was the city of Jacksonville telling you "Here's what you get for coming downtown! Expect more o' the same until you get wise!"
:D Hilarious... :D
QuoteI was mostly over the fence when my right leg snagged on a spike on the top of the fence.
Happens to me every time! :D
Thanks Cap'n Z! :D
Oh, no! Since you came out of it OK, Captain Z, I'll say it's a funny story.
I'm with fieldafm about the chill pill. I've been to other large churches in the suburbs that utilize off duty policemen to direct traffic when services let out. It isn't just FBC downtown. When there are a lot of people all leaving at the same time, it makes sense. It's only mildly inconvenient and lasts only a couple of hours. On Wednesday night, I now know to go around FBC instead of trying to get out to Springfield via Laura Street after being caught in the re-routing once or twice.
I think it is the disregard for everyone else, especially those of us living down town. But hey I complain about the Jags Interstate on game days too. It is really frustrating trying to get DT on Sundays when you have the church and Jag games. I guess if I was like most people in Jax and just went DT once in a while it would not be that big of a deal.
The good news... is... at least a couple times a month... we actually have a traffic issue downtown. This is something to build on. :)
i don't have a problem with the church but i do have a problem with the taxes that they don't pay....our city and downtown is dying and these guys want to hang on to all of the money and help no one...look at their back door...where are all of their social programs...oh i forgot...baptist don't believe in helping others unless you are a sworn in southern baptist and everyone else is headed to hades....sorry but the truth sucks...
GG some fo your comments really are misguided. "Baptist dont believe in helping anyone who isnt a Baptist", ever heard of Operation Christmas Child? come on now, do a little research.
Quote from: fsujax on March 08, 2011, 08:28:52 AM
GG some fo your comments really are misguided. "Baptist dont believe in helping anyone who isnt a Baptist", ever heard of Operation Christmas Child? come on now, do a little research.
NO i have never hear of that program...does it help the homeless and destitute at their back door?
Quote from: Garden guy on March 09, 2011, 09:42:16 AM
Quote from: fsujax on March 08, 2011, 08:28:52 AM
GG some fo your comments really are misguided. "Baptist dont believe in helping anyone who isnt a Baptist", ever heard of Operation Christmas Child? come on now, do a little research.
NO i have never hear of that program...does it help the homeless and destitute at their back door?
My church certainly does, and you're torpedoing your arguments with your sweeping stereotypes.
OCC is a massive collection program to deliver Christmas care packages to children in destitute and war-torn areas around the world. Participants fill shoeboxes with toys, toiletries, school supplies, and nonperishable treats.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 07, 2011, 09:51:19 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 04, 2011, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 04, 2011, 10:08:11 AM
^ They really need to put a note at the bottom of the stairwell saying 'you probably don't want to go out this way'.
The actual time required to scale the fence was brief, but I ended up bruising my legs.
You really must tell the story!
As you wish...........
When I couldn't find a spot, I parked at the garage just north of the Library. I was on the third floor, so I had to get down to the street. Being in a good mood, I declined a man who was holding the elevator for me, as I wanted to take the stairs. At the time, I was on the phone chatting with a friend I was supposed to meet up with at Hemming Plaza. I jogged down the stairs and hit the first floor. There was only one unmarked door leading out the other side of the stairwell on the first floor. Thinking it led directly outside, I pushed the door open and walked through.
Before I could react, the door closed behind me. I looked to the left at the street and noticed a 10 foot iron fence with a pad lock between either side. I tried to open the door I entered through, but it was locked. All around me were 4 story concrete walls and locked doors. The alley was only about 40 feet deep and 15 feet wide, but it was very isolated. I looked out on the street and saw noone, so I decided my only option was up and over the fence. The whole time I was explaining my predicament to my friend, who was half laughing-half concerned. Realizing I wouldn't be able to scale the fence phone in hand, I asked if I could call her back. The response was 'Yeah....That's probably best.'
I put the phone away, zipped up all jacket pockets, put my wallet in my front pockets, and fetched up my jeans. This wasn't a chain link fence, so I had nothing horizontal to use until the top of the fence. Luckily, there was a power outlet anchored to one of the vertical poles. I managed to jump onto the power outlet and from there to the top of a dumpster. Then, in a half skilled fashion, i leaped from the dumpster to the top of the fence. I was mostly over the fence when my right leg snagged on a spike on the top of the fence. I managed to stop my momentum, free my leg, and swing myself onto the ground. Luckily, only 2 emo girls saw this whole fiasco. I brushed myself off and went on to meet my friend. It wasn't until 2 days later that the massive bruise started to form above my right knee.
So, if you're in the library garage, DONT TAKE THE STAIRS ALL THE WAY TO THE FIRST FLOOR!!!
Isn't that a saftey hassard? There should be no locked doors in stairwells. The city has a saftey nazi mentallity, but I see these kinds of hassards all the time. If they must have locked doors, they could at least put a sign up to imform the public.
We participated in OCC and we are non denominational.