QuoteThe Florida Times-Union
October 30, 2007
Big brother eyes your car
By BETH KORMANIK,
The Times-Union
Just hours after City Councilman Stephen Joost sat down last week for an interview about his plan to install cameras at several intersections in Jacksonville, he learned his brother was injured when the driver of the car he was riding in ran a red light.
His brother's injuries were minor, but it impressed upon Joost the need for better enforcement on bad driving.
Joost introduced the Jacksonville Traffic Safety and Enhancement Act, which calls for installing cameras to catch drivers who run red lights and speed. Violators could face fines from $125 to $300, although no points would go on their licenses.
Joost envisions either installing cameras at 10 intersections, or installing camera boxes at 20 intersections and rotating 10 cameras among them so drivers do not know whether there's a camera inside. Roadside signs would alert drivers that the intersections were being monitored, and a police officer would review images before drivers were fined.
The City Council has to approve the concept, and there is a public hearing scheduled for the bill Nov. 13.
"What you do is change behavior, which is the goal," Joost said. "And save lives."
Sheriff John Rutherford supports the idea, and it's expected to have wide council support.
Jacksonville would be the first big city in Florida with the cameras, although cities nationwide such as Chicago, New York and Phoenix use them.
"We're behind the curve, if anything," Joost said.
That's because Florida law does not authorize cities to use cameras to catch violators of state traffic laws. Florida statutes require police officers to personally observe a traffic violation.
Jacksonville plans to get around that by making the violations civil infractions of the city's laws. Instead of citations, drivers would receive "notices of infractions." Violations would not be prosecuted through county court but rather through a city hearing.
The fines would be similar to what the state charges: $125 for running a red light, and from $175 to $300 for speeding depending on how fast the driver was going. Drivers get a $15 break if they immediately pay the fine but would be charged an extra $25 if they challenge the fine and lose.
Full Article:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/103007/met_213324512.shtml
QuoteFlorida DOT Confirms Use of Red Light Cameras Illegal
A Florida Department of Transportation letter confirms that cities using red light cameras to issue tickets are violating the law.
FDOT letterSeveral Florida jurisdictions, including Escambia County and Hallandale Beach, are considering the installation of red light cameras, even though the state legislature has refused to authorize the devices. Furious lobbying by the insurance and red light camera industries along with local governments interested in sharing in the revenue has put increased pressure on lawmakers to concede. Cities such as Apopka and Gulf Breeze could not resist the temptation to wait and have for the past few months have been issuing automated photo tickets at intersections. The Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) suggested in a letter last month that this may be illegal.
"The decision to allow or not allow the use of Red Light Running Cameras is determined by the Florida Legislature and Governor Crist," wrote Deputy State Traffic Operations Engineer Mark C. Wilson. "Current Florida Law does not allow the use of Red Light Running Cameras for the enforcement of a traffic violation. The Florida Department of Transportation does not allow the use of Red Light Running Cameras on any of our intersections on the State Highway System. We do know that some Florida cities are using Red Light Running Cameras for enforcement of a violation of a local city ordinance."
Dade City resident Stephen R Donaldson had written to his state representative, Tom Anderson, to suggest that longer yellow signal time was a superior alternative to the use of automated ticketing. Anderson forwarded Donaldson's concerns to FDOT.
"Tickets-by-mail is not law enforcement, it is revenue collecting," Donaldson said.
The Minnesota Supreme Court ruled earlier this year that a jurisdiction which had claimed red light cameras were not actually tickets but violations of a city ordinance had run afoul of a provision, also part of Florida's code, requiring uniformity in traffic laws (view ruling). A full copy of the FDOT letter is available in a 318k PDF file at the source link below.
Source: PDF File Response to Red Light Camera inquiry (Florida Department of Transportation, 8/28/2007)
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2007/fl-fdotletter.pdf
Isn't Beach Blvd a state road?
I believe its SR 90, isnt it?
Yup... Good Maps has it
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&ie=UTF8&om=1&msa=0&msid=114250687465160386813.00043d08ac31fe3357571&num=1000&ll=30.321915,-81.616058&spn=0.292801,0.6427&z=11
90 is state, and one bad thing is the systems are expensive and someone private is making too much profit from it, but if you feel that way, then why are bail bondsman allowed to make so much money when other states have reasonable bails and allow property bond bails for proven residents with community ties? That's a profit system that sucks ass....
Three Seconds Red!
I have been promoting an extension of red from one to three seconds all red clearance and what gets attention is a letter to some guy who said "maybe make the yellow longer"?
You're kidding, right?
How about some sanity here. Where green says go and yellow says either slow down or speed up, red means stop or NO! And while some J-O's will always run reds, the only thing to do is to extend all red to allow for bad or stupid human behavior. http://ThreeSecondsRed.blogspot.com
And the cameras are illegal, but the do reduce red running, and if people don't want fines then they shouldn't run red lights on such a common and regular basis.
If someone clearly runs a red, they need a ticket... moreover, a foot planted squarely. Cars are 2,000 lb. bullets, and too many people die or are hurt from red runners.
If you're close to the line when it changes and you can't stop safely, that's one thing, but that's what three red can be used for....and three red could be coupled with a camera and limit tickets to those who run after the first second of red, to those who run during the last two of a three red.... that three second red I want to see on all arterials which is my idea, thank you......
More yellow? hahahahaha isn't yellow the color of pi.........(?)
I say more red, and we'll see less other reds, like rescue vechiles, flashing lights, and blood.
OH! And almost all arterials in Jax are State Highways... back from the rural days... over here, Blanding, Roosevelt, Normandy, Lane, 90 (Beaver, and I like Beaver... I could drive down on Beaver all day long), even Lake Shore....
As long as they limit cameras to non-point enforcement they can fine like a parking ticket. Now what I do like is the little white light that comes on when signals are red so cops can see from the other direction if the signal is red.
And if we didn't have assholes who thought it was okay to run red all the time, we wouldn't be having this debate, now would we.