Wow.....for all to see. Immediately. If I could copy/paste the whole thing in the forum, I would...
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph
Read it and weep.
7 out of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are.... Democrats.
Where's Garden Guy and his myopic blathering about the evil rich?
Quote from: Doctor_K on February 24, 2011, 03:29:33 PM
7 out of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are.... Democrats.
Where's Garden Guy and his myopic blathering about the evil rich?
Not true... he is in favor of the democratEs, remember?
It is not about the evil rich. I do not care if the rich get richer. I just want policies in place so the good times float all boats and the bad times the burdens are shared.
Quote from: Shwaz on February 24, 2011, 03:32:06 PM
Quote from: Doctor_K on February 24, 2011, 03:29:33 PM
7 out of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are.... Democrats.
Where's Garden Guy and his myopic blathering about the evil rich?
Not true... he is in favor of the democratEs, remember?
Oh yes, I know. And no one got my Socrates joke either. :(
I did Doc ;D
I don't think inequality of wealth is a democrat/republican issue. It's an American issue.
Quote from: ben says on February 24, 2011, 03:48:55 PM
I don't think inequality of wealth is a democrat/republican issue. It's an American issue.
I don't necessarily disagree. My point is a dig at those who can't help but see things in just that way though. And there are plenty like that.
The Great Socrates
Keep this philosophy in mind the next time you hear, or are out to repeat a rumor.
In ancient Greece (469 - 399 BC), Socrates was widely lauded for his wisdom. One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance, who ran up to him excitedly and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about one of your students...?"
"Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell me, I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called the Test of Three."
"Test of Three?"
"That's correct," Socrates continued.
"Before you talk to me about my student let's take a moment to test what you're going to say. The first test is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"
"No," the man replied, "actually I just heard about it."
"All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or not. Now let's try the second test, the test of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about my student something good?"
"No, on the contrary..."
"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him even though you're not certain it's true?"
The man shrugged, a little embarrassed. Socrates continued, "You may still pass though because there is a third test - the filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about my student going to be useful to me?"
"No, not really..."
"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither True nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?"
The man was defeated and ashamed and said no more.
This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high esteem.
It also explains why Socrates never found out that Plato was banging his wife.
Doctor K: I feel you. I can understand where the Democrats come from...some of them genuinely do want wealth distribution and to tax themselves, etc etc. I mean, we live in a society that demonizes wealth to many degrees, so many wealthy people feel like they didn't actually "earn" their money, but instead won life's lottery. Many old money families are Democrat because they did actually win life's lottery due to their ancestors' hard work. It's the living rags to riches rich people that are the "rich Republicans."
I think there are huge inequities, but I don't want to live in or be a part of a system where most everyone virtually makes similar income (I guess seeing these numbers we are in that kind of system :(). I like that there are super rich people, and I actually like that though in America, one can still "lose it all" and become poor (or choose to be poor). Not everyone is born a highly motivated person, but the ability to be super rich and do what you want and be what you want is very high incentive for those with lots of drive and motivation and passion. The ability to lose it all and become poor is also incentive for *most* people with sense to be careful.
I am shocked that the bottom 90% averages to $30,000 income (is that median, per household, per capita? what does that mean?). I know 50% of this country does not make enough to pay income taxes, and many of those who aren't paying income taxes are on some sort of assistance, but I didn't realize that the number was so low. That seems so low. I don't even know anyone right out of college making so little (and I hope I'm not offending anyone, but $30K is a low figure to me for a salaried job...the poverty line is like $25K for a family of 3 or 4). Knowing this new information, and knowing my generation is the least "saving" generation ever, I will be saving every penny I make just in case I ever fall down. Wow!
Demonizes more often celebrates. I am pretty liberal but I do not mind people becoming rich and trying for more. The problem is in a belief that the rich will allow their wealth to trickle down we have based policies on that. Pre 1980 we supported laws that allowed and encouraged people to become rich while making sure that in good times the benefits affected all classes of our citizens. This is not the fault of the rich. Many rich people support many things in this country that no one else can. Reagan and Clinton's trade policies and gross military spending habits have truly hurt the people in this country who do not profit from exporting jobs.
Wow kids - I don't think I could agree with you more. Brilliant summarization, IMO, from both.
It's gonna be a good day. :)
By the way - speaking to simms3's point of the 'least saving' generation: I've found that if you're able to put into savings the equivalent of x-dollars per day (whether you deposit it daily, weekly, or monthly), you will be surprised on what you end up with after a couple of years.
Again, if you are able to do it, that is. I've been fortunate enough (and if I may say so, smart enough with my money/financial situation) to be able to do it, and it's a HUGE boon when you can pay for stuff with cash when the need arises - I'm talking big-ticket stuff, not piddling it away on daily espressos and the like.
I'd like to think that gradual, constant, steady saving as much and as best you can will certainly go a long way towards translating into a decent chunk of change in the future. If that eventually turns me into one of the 'evil rich,' then at least I'll be able to say I worked for it, saved for it, and earned it the proper way.
If everyone could do this to one degree or another, I think people would be better off in general. After all, for better or worse, money makes the world go 'round.
I say good for them. I WISH I had this kind of wealth. This country is set up to allow the cream rise to top. Then when it does we blast them for it. Its the keeping up with Jones, that has ruined this country. Great line from SNL in the 90's. "you know how people have stuff? Well where's my stuff?" It summarized America perfectly. Guess what? Not everyone can have stuff. And if people would prioritize just a bit, and stop blaming Wall Street get there own affairs in line this would not be problem. Dont rely on the government to help you, that is NOT what they are there for. Do not rely on anyone but your family. They are there to help you, not me, not your neighbor and not the government. Dont worry about what the person next to you is doing, keep your eyes on your own test and pass it. Americans are badly failing their own personal tests and will look for anyone to blame but themselves.
Quote from: St. Auggie on February 25, 2011, 12:44:30 PM
I say good for them. I WISH I had this kind of wealth. This country is set up to allow the cream rise to top. Then when it does we blast them for it. Its the keeping up with Jones, that has ruined this country. Great line from SNL in the 90's. "you know how people have stuff? Well where's my stuff?" It summarized America perfectly. Guess what? Not everyone can have stuff. And if people would prioritize just a bit, and stop blaming Wall Street get there own affairs in line this would not be problem. Dont rely on the government to help you, that is NOT what they are there for. Do not rely on anyone but your family. They are there to help you, not me, not your neighbor and not the government. Dont worry about what the person next to you is doing, keep your eyes on your own test and pass it. Americans are badly failing their own personal tests and will look for anyone to blame but themselves.
There's nothing more grotesque than the outright love and infatuation over mass amounts of wealth....on another note, how the hell can you sleep at night knowing you have hundreds of millions of dollars when we have a significant portion of our country below the poverty line? Or wait, they must be below poverty line because they are too lazy to enter the great game of capitalism...
Quote from: ben says on February 25, 2011, 12:49:55 PM
Or wait, they must be below poverty line because they are too lazy to enter the great game of capitalism...
It's hard to tell if this is a statement or a snide remark.
Although we (my household) don't fall into the bottom catagory, we aren't much above it. There are many people that I know personally that make more than my wife and I together, but it's not from laziness or lack of trying. I totally believe that just being at the right place at the right time can benefit someone a hell of a lot more than hard work. I've been fortunate in many cases, but have missed the boat completely in others. The great thing about this country is that you can make a mountain from a molehill and reap the benefits. There are many places in this world that make this an impossibility.
IMO, saying that the ultra-rich or even the semi-rich don't deserve what they have is nothing more than jealosy at work. However they achieved their status, assuming it's legal, they are free to do as they please. If you envy this sort of thing, then maybe you should focus more energy on getting there than trying to figure out how you 'deserve' it more than they.
It was a snide remark--not meant to hurt feelings or discredit anyone. I agree w/ everything you said...