Metro Jacksonville

Thinking Anew about Monroe Street and the Courthouse

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1153737210_45VuW-M.jpg)

This Presidents' Day, I have been thinking about the issue of Monroe Street and the new Duval County Courthouse and meditating on the sentiments expressed in Abraham Lincoln's address to Congress in 1862.  As President Lincoln so aptly said, "As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew."  (emphasis added)  

       With respect to the interrelated problems of Monroe Street and the new courthouse, we are, at the most basic level, being called upon to completely rethink many of the original design objectives of the River City Renaissance plan, if not some elements of the existing plan for the Downtown itself.  This is in no way a bad thing, but rather an opportunity to come to a better consensus about what our goals and objectives for Jacksonville's urban core really are, and how we might better achieve them.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-feb-thinking-anew-about-monroe-street-and-the-courthouse

Milt, I am honored that you used my sketch in your article.

You bring up a great point about master planning.  As I have talked to various people around town, the common frustration is that we are often creating great vision/master plans but nothing materializes.  I used to be of the opinion that for once, we need to just follow the plan.  I have heard others lament this as well.  However, as I have investigated more into this and observed the pockets of town that are experiencing a resurgance, it has become evident to me that the problem may not be with the implementation, but with the original plan itself.

• Perhaps our plans have been too restrictive and not permitted organic growth to occur.
• The plans may have been so grand that we could never bite it off in one chunk and so we never took the first step.
• The plans may have not allowed the market to determine what was going to be most successful at any given time.
• Lastly, and most importantly, the plans were made under the false assumption that the generation making the plans knew what was going to be best for the future generations.

I am currently involved in a master planning effort in San Marco and am working hard to make sure we don't repeat these mistakes.  For master plans to work, the vision needs to be clear and well-communicated, but the implementation needs to be flexible enough to allow the market to work its magic.  It is not the planners who make the plans successful, it is the businesses and residents who decide to live and work there.

And we always need to be asking ourselves if we are on the right track.  Too many times we make decisions based on previous decisions that would possibly have been made differently had we known then, what we know today.

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but with Monroe St. being such a "Grand Entrance" and all, why doesn't it have access from 95 southbound?  Just sayin'.

Excellent article.

Questions:
Currently there is an exit off I95 to Monore that would drop in front of the courthouse?  And Monroe Street is where LaVilla used to be?
The current plan is to close Monroe and it's I95 exit?
LaVilla was demolished to build this big honking fugly courthouse?
When was LaVilla demolished?

Thanks for the clarification.

Also, any pros/cons to Monroe Street would be appreciated.
I would like to understand better.

I enjoyed the essay quite a bit.  Thanks!

Linear parks can work great when there is a good master plan and enough growth happening whereby the park doesn't subsequently cut off the two sides of an area and create a wasteland.  I think a new master plan for LaVilla needs to be created and perhaps this linear park incorporated, but development needs to be spurred in that area with incentives in the form of tax increment financing (which surprisingly is almost non-existent in Jacksonville, a city that needs it and can benefit from it more than any other).

The park and developments on either side should be constructed simultaneously.  A quick look through history indicates that linear parks came about in master plans where growth was happening fast and the park and surrounding mixed-use/higher density (and in a couple case RSFHs) simultaneously.  I'm thinking of examples in Boston, Atlanta, New York, all over CA, Dallas, etc.

S Dallas
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/uli_linear-park_largesdallas.png)

San MAteo, CA
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/proj_park_linear0sanmateo.jpg)

Atlanta
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/Green-Line500-562x366.jpg)

Atlanta
(http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad1/jsimms3/l4fd45a42-m12xAS.jpg)

Quote from: simms3 on February 25, 2011, 07:01:32 AM
development needs to be spurred in that area with incentives in the form of tax increment financing (which surprisingly is almost non-existent in Jacksonville, a city that needs it and can benefit from it more than any other).

I hear about tif's often, but don't know exactly how they work.  Would you mind someday posting some detailed information and examples?  It seems like this is going to be a great avenue for some of the infrastructure projects we are trying to start.

@ Nicole:

LaVilla was demolished for social reasons.  Sound familiar?  

QuoteThe area north of Duval Street was one of Florida’s first black urban  neighborhoods. In the 1920s Ashley Street became the “Great Black Way”. A street  lined with entertainment establishments that played host to famed jazz & blues  greats such as Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong and Billie Holliday. Former  residents of LaVilla include Ray Charles and James Weldon Johnson

QuoteLike many historic neighborhoods, for various reasons LaVilla fell on hard  times. However, unlike Springfield, it wasn’t given a chance to revitalize  itself. In the early 1990s the city demolished most structures along with the  heart and soul of Florida’s first African-American city with an ill-fated urban  renewal project that has resulted in the empty lots and non-pedestrian friendly  stucco office structures that exist today.

more info:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2006-aug-lavilla-jacksonvilles-first-incorporated-suburb

The loss of LaVilla is immeasurable, criminal.

QuoteLaVilla is a primarily African-American neighborhood of Jacksonville, Florida, that was considered "the mecca for African American culture and heritage" in Florida

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVilla

Simms, I love it!  The plan for Monroe to be a straight shot from 95 to the Hart Expressway has already been killed.  Imagine a beautiful, lush green, winding park similar to your photos linking the Prime Osborn (converted to Jacksonville Terminal of course) to Hemming Plaza.  Set up TIF along the edges, make the streets curved in this area, ditch BRT and watch the revival of LaVilla.  What a grand entrance this could be to our city!  One of the graphic guys on here should draw this up.  We need new thinking in our downtown revival.

Think I heard correctly?
I caught the tail end of a blurb on NPR.
Council voted to keep Monroe Street OPEN!?

What does this mean for the hope of a grand court yard?

It means we'll have a grand courtyard split by a one-way arterial street or a large lifeless two block irregular median between two one-way streets.

Quote from: sheclown on March 01, 2011, 08:43:07 PM

QuoteLike many historic neighborhoods, for various reasons LaVilla fell on hard  times. However, unlike Springfield, it wasn’t given a chance to revitalize  itself. In the early 1990s the city demolished most structures along with the  heart and soul of Florida’s first African-American city with an ill-fated urban  renewal project that has resulted in the empty lots and non-pedestrian friendly  stucco office structures that exist today.

Ring ring! DANGER AHEAD, SPRINGFIELD DANGER!

-Josh

'Hello, room service? Send up a room, and if you can't spare a room, send up a hall, or a complete building'
Groucho

Ever wonder why the stop lights in Green Cove Springs are all set on timers so that whatever hour and whatever direction one is traveling you'll have to stop.  TRUTH! Making people stop and turn their vehicles will help small business not harm it.

OCKLAWAHA

Back in the Seventies, a lot of downtown streets across the country were re-designated for use by pedestrians only.  I'm not saying this would be a good idea for Monroe Street, but it wouldn't be as bad as rebuilding it for cars to use.

Another idea would be to rename the existing pieces of Broad Adams and Pearl Streets that go around the south side of the new courthouse, so that you could go all the way across downtown on "Monroe Street,"  without laying down any new asphalt.

This is unfortunate, but it's far from the worst thing that's been done downtown.

Building that proposed curved stretch of Monroe Street as a multiuse path for cyclist and pedestrians would not be a bad idea.  By the same token, restripping an existing lane of Monroe all the way through downtown for bicycle use wouldn't be too bad either.  Unfortunately, we've reached the point where we don't believe we can "maintain a grid" by not fully accommodating automobile movement at the expense of other modes of mobility.

Quote from: Tacachale on June 30, 2011, 02:14:25 PM
This is unfortunate, but it's far from the worst thing that's been done downtown.

It's actually very critical to the future of that section of downtown how this space ultimately plays out.  Even if a road is built, it won't be a full block wide.  Thus, there is still going to be some sort of public plaza/green space (KBJ has the contract and it's already in design from what I've heard).  We just have to make sure its context sensitive and usable for the surrounding area.

QuoteIt's actually very critical to the future of that section of downtown how this space ultimately plays out.

On the contrary, I think it is devastating to the area around the courthouse.. which is pretty much a blank slate now that all of the surrounding buildings have been destroyed.

The promise of creating a breathable, sustainable fabric of economic promise for potential surrounding small business owners(of which the city could be potential landlords to as this road will sit at the front door of potential retail parcels at the city-owned courthouse parking garage) is forever soiled with the rebuilding of the road.  You can thank Stephen for that description.

It is the final 'screw you' to Jacksonville from the outgoing Council... the worst sitting City Council in my lifetime.  Thank you Michael Corrigan, enjoy fattening up your pension on the taxpayer's dime.

The best thing Alvin Brown can do is to veto this legislation tomorrow.

Quoterestripping an existing lane of Monroe all the way through downtown for bicycle use wouldn't be too bad either.

Agreed, doing this would connect a bicycle pathway to the already funded multi-use path along Hogans Creek, with careful planning this could also connect to the S Line rails to trail bike path.  This loop would connect Durkeeville, Springfield, the Cathedral District and Sports District to the Riverwalk and straight through the heart of downtown. 

Why is it also so bad to extend the tree canopy from Hemming Plaza to a new public plaza at the courthouse?  This would give downtown TWO pedestrian centric arteries(Monroe and Laura). 

This abomination of a road destroys such promise.   

and I know we will also pay for the street to be closed when somebody/s gets hit or there is another safety issue.  Pay to have it reopened and pay to have it closed.  This/ along with the TC is a disaster waiting to happen and we will pay for it.

Not only in regards to paying for it in the future... how are we going to pay for it now???

This is an unfunded, unecessary, unsafe road.  Period.

In a city facing a $60 million dollar budget shortfall next year(even more the year after next)... what library are we going to close to build an uneeded road?  What after school learning problem are you going to cut?  What taxpayer are you going to screw to build this?  Ask yourself what program are you going to cancel to build a road that endangers pedestrians and contributes to an unfriendly small business environment downtown?  Really, stand in the mirror and ask yourself that.  See how you look when you say it out loud.  Pretty silly sounding isn't it?

Better yet, stand on Monroe b/w 95 and the courthouse for half a day and count the cars coming down this street(better yet, cars that aren't coming in and out of Ted Pappas' building, which is half the traffic)  It's entertaining btw b/c motorists have an extremely confused look on their face when they realize a Roman colliseum was built in the middle of the road they are traveling down. 

If you can count more than 20 cars, I will pay for your half day away from work.  Now think about that traffic count and divide that by the cost of the road rebuilding project(remember you can't take money away from the already FUNDED public art money dedicated to the public plaza).

I think you'll find you will come up with a cost per motorist number that simply doesn't make fiscal sense.  From a motorist per dollar perspective, it would be more beneficial to widen a cul-de-sac road at Jax Golf and Country Club.  At least more cars would travel on that road and they have the added benefit of having speed bumps to encourage motorists not to run over kids playing in one's front yard.

Go ahead and abandon the park plan to a massive street, then lets close Adams and build the park anyway... across the street from the courthouse. Note too that it would create a one sided pedestrian mall in front of the law offices that front Adams today.l

OCKLAWAHA

so who else here thinks that more downtown streets should return to serving two-way traffic, before any reconstruction of Monroe Street should occur?

" jta running out of roadbuilding money "
Yet the multi kabillion $ court ranch needs a pick up and drop off lane.
Imho, restripe surrounding thoroughfares, adjust the traffic loops and signals accordingly, and see if any anticipated dangerous conditions may resolve themselves .

via simple ADA compliant curb and sidewalk transitions throughout.

^I agree.  In fact, I'd like to see the majority of the streets surrounding the courthouse property (Adams, Pearl, Duval, Monroe east of Pearl, etc.)  that we'll have to rebuild as a part of this project, turned into two way streets.