Rated #5 out of 10 cities where drivers are likely to be caught in a speed trap.
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1728/americas-worst-speed-traps/
Funny, the article (see excerpt below) talks of tickets as "fundraisers". Is it any coincidence that 5 of the top 10 cities listed are in low tax states, Florida and Texas? The politicos can say whatever, but the states and locals will get their revenues one way or the other. As to Jacksonville, I recall reading that part of every ticket here goes toward the pension benefits of the JSO. If so, no wonder they are motivated to aggressively enforce speeds here.QuoteIt's hard to get this information from the police or the courts for two reasons: 1) Many tickets are negotiated in court and 2) speed limits, while originally designed to conserve fuel during the energy crisis of the 1970s, have grown into a cash cow for states and municipalitiesâ€"and they don't want you to know how much they're making off of speeding tickets.
"Speed limits are supposed to be based on factual studies of traffic and what the majority of motorists deem as a safe speed," said Chad Dornsife, director of the Highway Safety Group . "Now, the posted limit has become a revenue generatorâ€"not a safety device."
The National Motorists Association, a drivers' rights group, estimates that speeding tickets are a $4.5 to $6 billion industry in America.
To be clear, speeding tickets aren't just for lead foots: In some places, they'll ticket you for going one mile over the speed limit and others set the speed limits artificially low.
"In some places, the average speed limit is set 10 to 15 miles below the actual safe speed for conditions," Dornsife said. "It makes technical violators out of people otherwise driving safely."
Quote from: stjr on February 19, 2011, 03:47:32 PM
Funny, the article (see excerpt below) talks of tickets as "fundraisers". Is it any coincidence that 5 of the top 10 cities listed are in low tax states, Florida and Texas? The politicos can say whatever, but the states and locals will get their revenues one way or the other. As to Jacksonville, I recall reading that part of every ticket here goes toward the pension benefits of the JSO. If so, no wonder they are motivated to aggressively enforce speeds here.
QuoteIt's hard to get this information from the police or the courts for two reasons: 1) Many tickets are negotiated in court and 2) speed limits, while originally designed to conserve fuel during the energy crisis of the 1970s, have grown into a cash cow for states and municipalities—and they don't want you to know how much they're making off of speeding tickets.
"Speed limits are supposed to be based on factual studies of traffic and what the majority of motorists deem as a safe speed," said Chad Dornsife, director of the Highway Safety Group . "Now, the posted limit has become a revenue generator—not a safety device."
The National Motorists Association, a drivers' rights group, estimates that speeding tickets are a $4.5 to $6 billion industry in America.
To be clear, speeding tickets aren't just for lead foots: In some places, they'll ticket you for going one mile over the speed limit and others set the speed limits artificially low.
"In some places, the average speed limit is set 10 to 15 miles below the actual safe speed for conditions," Dornsife said. "It makes technical violators out of people otherwise driving safely."
The truth is that that used to be the case. But several years ago the City of Jacksonville negotiated away the contribution to the Police & Fire Pension that came from traffic fines for other perks from the State. (I wonder if it was the retirement package for senior execs like the Mayor and CC?). Just another example of the City of Jacksonville defunding the Police & Fire Pension.
As for this article...hmmm, usually all I hear is complaints about Jax traffic and the LAX enforcement. I RARELY see traffic at or below the speed limit on any roads here.
Quote5. Jacksonville, Florida
Speed traps: 175
Florida takes the prize for the state where motorists are most likely to get a speeding ticket, according to a survey last year by the NMA.
One man told News4Jax.com that he wasn't surprised. "I probably passed 30 cops on the way down here, so they were sitting there waiting to get everybody that's for sure," he said.
Jacksonville, in particular, is known for speed traps where multiple drivers are pulled over at once, often by unmarked police cars, and motorists can be charged for going 5 mph over the limit. And, they get low marks on informing motorists of the speed limits.
"Many of their streets are horribly underposted," Dornsife said of Jacksonville. "Some of the signs they use there aren't even legal devicesâ€"they're supposed to be a particular size, format and shape," he said.
I wonder where they got the number of "speed traps". I know of no such number. And how many of you have seen multiple cars pulled over for speeding? Seen any "odd" speed signs? I believe that the article is not well researched and is actually referring to the NE Florida region rather than Jax itself.
^ NotNow, I have seen "monthly" roundups of speeders in at least 3 or 4 regular spots for years on my daily routes . Usually motorcycle cops with radar guns standing out from behind curves, trees, fences into the street. And, yes, they pull over multiple cars. What is interesting is that it is the same spots over and over and regulars get to know where these spots are. I don't ever see new spots picked out. You can also predict the time of day, usually mornings or lunch hour times. Maybe more randomness would increase effectiveness while spreading the tickets around to a few more citizens.
I have also personally received a ticket right were the speed limit drops. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. And, once, I talked myself out of a ticket in a trap when I politely pointed out to the officer no speed limit sign was posted. He verified it with partners over the radio and let me go with a "be more careful next time" admonishment although he also noted that 30 MPH is a default speed limit if no sign is posted. He claimed that was in the Florida Drivers Handbook but, geesh, I haven't read that since I was 16!
There are definitely roads with artificially low speed limits around town. Many should be 5 to 10 miles higher. Based on being consistent, it beats me how similar roads or road sections can have such varying speed limits. There are some roads with too high a speed limit. Driving a posted 30 MPH on some suburban residential only streets is down right dangerous.
What's new to me is you can get ticketed for 5 over the limit. I always figured that up to 9 over was the safety zone.
Quote from: stjr on February 19, 2011, 04:48:19 PM
^ NotNow, I have seen "monthly" roundups of speeders in at least 3 or 4 regular spots for years on my daily routes . Usually motorcycle cops with radar guns standing out from behind curves, trees, fences into the street. And, yes, they pull over multiple cars. What is interesting is that it is the same spots over and over and regulars get to know where these spots are. I don't ever see new spots picked out. You can also predict the time of day, usually mornings or lunch hour times. Maybe more randomness would increase effectiveness while spreading the tickets around to a few more citizens.
I have also personally received a ticket right were the speed limit drops. That's like shooting fish in a barrel. And, once, I talked myself out of a ticket in a trap when I politely pointed out to the officer no speed limit sign was posted. He verified it with partners over the radio and let me go with a "be more careful next time" admonishment although he also noted that 30 MPH is a default speed limit if no sign is posted. He claimed that was in the Florida Drivers Handbook but, geesh, I haven't read that since I was 16!
There are definitely roads with artificially low speed limits around town. Many should be 5 to 10 miles higher. Based on being consistent, it beats me how similar roads or road sections can have such varying speed limits. There are some roads with too high a speed limit. Driving a posted 30 MPH on some suburban residential only streets is down right dangerous.
You are right about artificially low speed limits around town! Thankfully, I can name two areas where this problem was remedied. The first one that comes to mind is on Blanding Blvd. between 103rd Street and Park Street. I recall that the speed limit used to drop to 35 miles per hour in that area while it was 45 miles per hour on the rest of the road going into Orange Park. Speaking of Orange Park, I am also glad that Park Ave. (US 17) has a decent speed limit now. It also used to have a posted speed limit of 35 miles per hour. In either case, not many drivers obeyed those artificially low speed limits.
As one approaches the end of I-10, before it branches out to the lanes that go to I-95 N & S, the speed limit drops from 55 to 45. Most drivers are at or above 60 in the 55mph zone so there is an immediate violation of at least 15mph.
Our very own JSO, as well as FHP, has staked out that cash cow section and routinely scope the vehicles that are headed for I-95 S in the left lanes.
:)
I defer to what you have personnally witnessed. The traffic division is not my area of expertise. I just have not seen that around my neighborhood. I agree that the speed limits seem to not make sense at times, but that has nothing to do with the Sheriff's Office. I can state that generally, the JSO administration frowns on "traps" such as the bottom of steep bridges and such. I know it happens, but it is discouraged.
I never noticed too many traps in Jacksonville except for on Roosevelt where Park crosses over and on Atlantic in the dip of a hill between BK and Episcopal. I guess I can see the noteworthy mention of unmarked cop cars in Jacksonville as they seem to be the norm. Ponte Vedra and Jax Beach are also chaulk full of cops just waiting to bust anyone for DUI.
In Atlanta, the speed limits seem to be considerably less than in Jacksonville and change more frequently, and there are more hills and dips where cops can hideout. That being said while cops are more numerous on the interstate highways in GA and Atlanta than anywhere I have noticed, they stay on the highways. Also, while posted speed limits are 55 throughout the city for the most part, cops generally won't pull you over until you are going above 80 (it's kind of an unwritten law). Cops also cannot ride around in unmarked vehicles in GA (I've seen cops in minivans and compacts in Florida, not to mention all of the unmarked multi-color Chevy's).
Anyone know the number of Motorcycle cops in the JSO? 20 of them. If speed traps were that important, we would have closer to 100. JSO is taking care of crime, gangs, and they have been very good of late with having a presence with cars around town. Speed traps are not a priority, thanks Sherriff Rutherford for setting priorities! FHP has also been told they need to cut down on the amount of fuel they use due to cutbacks in the FDOT budget. So while the new 95/10 interchange is a "speed trap", they are adhering to the mandate and you should slow down anyway.
There is almost no traffic enforcement in Jacksonville at all. "Speed trap" is a big laugh.
I used to live near where JSO occasionally (every three or four months) sets up on Atlantic across from the fire station at St. Nicholas. Walking my dogs by there I talked with the JSO officers and watched the indicated speeds on the laser guns. I then asked them why they weren't stopping people doing 55 in that 40 MPH zone. They laughed and said that one, they couldn't write tickets that fast and two, traffic would be backed up to University Blvd if they did. They were only stopping people going over 55 and in twenty minutes had at least ten cars lined up down the side street by the church writing as fast as they could.
The few speedtraps I have seen were usually the results of residential or business complaints of unsafe speeds. Traffic laws are seldom enforced in Jax unless you are in blatant disregard of them.
The Belfort overpass on JTB. They do it daily.
QuoteThe Belfort overpass on JTB. They do it daily.
They could do it every day of the year and twice on Sunday, although I have never seen it on a Sunday, all you need to do is look for the large black object at the top of the span on the left side and realize that it ain't a cow sitting on the top of the span, its a cop with laser on a tripod.
Radar detectors, folks. Got a passport 9500 and it's magic. To be completely honest though, I actually don't speed any real amount but the detector makes me feel better if I'm doing 5 over, it's also fun- it goes off and we start trying to find the unmarked car or spotter.
That speed trap that Ralph mentioned- 95/10 slowing to 45 is insane, I've never seen anyone doing 45 there, you'd get run off the road by all the trucks if you tried.
Someone mentioned Atlanta- some of the speed limits there were pretty amusing. I think we were in a residential area of Druid Hills and the limit was 50, school zones were 40.
Watch out on Airport Rd on the approach to JIA.
After that hairpin curve off 95 the limit goes down, down, down until you are almost at the terminal.
Found out the hard way.
^^^Oh yea...I can vouch for Airport Road being one huggggeeee speed trap. It never fails.
Via Atlanta...you must have been on Ponce, which goes by a school but is a four lane divided semi-highway with parks on either side. Atlanta has way slower speed limits than Jacksonville. Interstate speed limits never get above 55. Limits and how fast people drive are two different things though ;) People in Atlanta tend to drive a lot faster than in Jax because they spend enough time in traffic as it is that when there isn't any it's time to go! That, and people are just busier/more frantic/have more things to do.
When are they going to do away with the speed traps on the way to Gainesville? Ever?
And be forewarned, as we all probably know the exit to St. Augustine and from St. Augustine is rife with speed traps and cops sitting and waiting. They're probably more interested in nabbing visitors/tourists, but I've seen enough FL tags pulled over to know they are in for business.
Come to think of it, having cops on Airport Rd right after the exit of the airport is probably the worst idea ever. Talk about a welcoming party! It's more like a F**K you and don't come back or we'll slap you with an even more eggregious ticket. That's how Jacksonville rolls, though.
QuoteWhen are they going to do away with the speed traps on the way to Gainesville? Ever?
Well, they do hold mud boggs a few times a year, but that does not seem to bring in enough revenue, so if you an idiot, and most drivers who get tickets are, and don't notice the drop in speed, you deserve to get the ticket.
There is no way in Atlanta that any residential area allows for 40 or 50, I know Ponce De Leon, and besides the signage being stolen for scrap, and a stop light every 100 yards, with people turning left or right, without a turn lane, there is hardly the chance to get up above those higher speeds. Most residential roads are 30 or 35.
From the page of "you think you have it bad", I was in Orlando on I-4 at 3:30 yesterday and the speed limit was down to 30 MPH, as we crawled along the downtown connector, without any accidents, for 3-4 miles. I hate that town more than any for its terrible traffic. Its the evil mouse's fault and I would pay ANY and ALL toll roads to escape the free personal hell that I-4 delivers, every day.
Its the evil mouse's fault and I would pay ANY and ALL toll roads to escape the free personal hell that I-4 delivers, every day.
:):):)
Orlando IS Hell!
I don't have the stats to prove it but I would wager that accidents are caused less by speeding than by fatigue, distraction, DUI, or even driving too slow compared with the other traffic. Most of the accidents I come across are caused by sudden braking resulting in tail-ending and lack of awareness of the traffic ahead. All of which leads me to believe that speed traps are nothing more a means to generate revenue and not to reduce accidents.
Quote from: mtraininjax on February 24, 2011, 08:52:20 AM
There is no way in Atlanta that any residential area allows for 40 or 50, I know Ponce De Leon, and besides the signage being stolen for scrap, and a stop light every 100 yards, with people turning left or right, without a turn lane, there is hardly the chance to get up above those higher speeds. Most residential roads are 30 or 35.
From the page of "you think you have it bad", I was in Orlando on I-4 at 3:30 yesterday and the speed limit was down to 30 MPH, as we crawled along the downtown connector, without any accidents, for 3-4 miles. I hate that town more than any for its terrible traffic. Its the evil mouse's fault and I would pay ANY and ALL toll roads to escape the free personal hell that I-4 delivers, every day.
Well the poster said he was on a residential street in Druid Hills where the speed limit was 50, and that raised eyebrows to me, too, but Ponce is the only street where you can approach those speed limits (and you can, I live here...posted is 35 or 40 but people drive faster than that). Only when no traffic and if there are no cops, which there usually are. It has a school zone like the poster mentioned, too (separated from Ponce by a linear park).
Orlando traffic is bad, but still minor compared to the larger cities. Jacksonville really does not have traffic except for maybe I-10 East in the morning (is that still a crawl?). Atlanta traffic in Gwinnett County is so bad that they are now tolling the HOV lanes (it's downright bad when the HOV lanes are as slow as the 16 other lanes). 85 in Gwinnett, 75 in Cobb, 20 in Douglas, and 75 in Clayton, S Fulton, and Henry counties are bad, like 5-10 miles of 20 lanes of parking lot for 1.5 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the afternoon (and all day on Friday and on Sunday afternoons).
I-4 near 408 in Orlando is its busiest point. It is projected to see 257,300 vehicles a day by 2016. The Connector in Atlanta already sees 560,000 vehicles a day (busiest stretch of highway outside of SoCal and Tri-State areas). I-285 at 400 in N Atlanta sees close to 300,000 vehicles a day, with the total loop having about 2,000,000 vehicles a day.
Somebody may have to correct me, but I believe 95 in Jacksonville has a traffic count range of 56,000 to 172,000. In Broward County the range is 196,000 to 306,000, 95’s busiest section. I would guess 95’s busiest stretch is either around JTB or I-295 in the South (Acosta sees only about 130,000-140,000 a day).
If there is one bright spot with traffic, it’s harder to get a speeding ticket! :)
5MPH and under is a warning ticket, nothing more. State law says so.
The 95/10 split is a huge trap now, they sit on the ease on the 95 south ramp and pull people over almost daily.
I-295 @ the buckman almost always has a few cops in the median each day as well as State Troopers who like to park on the break down lane just over the bridge out of site until you are speeding right past them.
You also see a cop or two at the base of the matthews bridge coming westbound.
My current favorite ones are the Orange Park Police that like to park at night completely dark and pull people over.
There is an easy answer to speed traps, even Waldo and Starke; DON'T SPEED!
See no problem.
If you are in danger of having your license revoked and you doubt the mph you've been clocked at, ask politely to see the laser gun reading for yourself. You have nothing to lose and you have that right. If the cop refuses, bring that evidence into court. I was once clocked at 72mph pulling out of a gas station in NJ, an unlikely feat even for a Nascar driver. ;D
I'm telling you, it was a small residential area around Druid Hills. We drove all over the place so I'm not sure where at exactly but there were "school zone" crossing sections and it said "school zone 40MPH" and had little plastic warning signs in the middle of the street. We didn't imagine it because we saw it repeated several times and thought it was hilarious. I can tell you it wasn't a big highway or anything because we used the GPS the entire time and had it set to totally avoid all highways because traffic is a nightmare there. The only thing I can tell you is that there were several new small subdivisions along the road with these really odd looking houses, like something you'd see out of Harry Potter that I'm sure were in the megabucks++ range. It may have been outside of druid hills, I'm not sure- we were coming in from Norcross each day. The speed limit may have been 45, but I know the school zone thing was 40 for sure because we talked about how they wanted to make sure the kids hit by cars would survive but just barely.