Metro Jacksonville

Walmart... "Save money. Live better" can be seen all over their website, plastic bags, news paper ads and even their commercials. We have come to rely on this super giant of retail gluttony on all our daily needs and wants. Now I grew up in New Jersey. Walmart was a place of fiction, not that it wasn't real, but they were too few and far between. One must drive many miles and go through many townships before actually walking into 108,000 square feet of savings. We have all heard the pros and cons of what a Walmart can do to a community, so this begs on the question. "Do we have too many Walmarts in Jacksonville?"

Well, when was the last time we saw an empty one? I think market factors make that decision.

you can never have too many Wal Marts :)

There are too many big-box stores period, but especially Wal-Mart.  Its a shame that we're such a wasteful culture that we would rather buy cheap plastic crap and throw it in a landfill as soon as we're tired of it.  I would much rather spend just a little more for quality at, hopefully, a locally-owned retail establishment and purchase an item that might last me many years.  Americans have to get over this idea that natural resources are limitless and we can continue to waste like there's no tomorrow (oh wait, I forgot about the rapture!).

Before globalization and the ability of multi-nationals to exploit labor for five cents a day, our parents and grandparents might buy a pair of shoes and make them last for years with just a little maintenance and repairs.  But, then again, its much easier to throw them away and buy another cheap pair at Walmart.

Quote from: Steve on February 10, 2011, 09:34:57 PM
Well, when was the last time we saw an empty one? I think market factors make that decision.

Totally agree.

Let the free market do its job, and let consumers vote with their dollars.

WalMart, ethics aside, has undoubtedly and immeasurably improved the quality of life for tens of millions of low income families.

If someone living hand-to-mouth can stretch their paycheck $20 further each week by shopping at Walmart, who amongst us has any right to look them in the eye and say, "You know, you should be shopping at a local mom-and-pop store instead."

I completely agree that the exploitation of foreign labor for cheap products is disgusting, but WalMart is farrrrrrrrrrrrr from alone in that respect. And ultimately, a store like Walmart only sells what we the citizenry are willing to purchase. We all have blood on our hands in that respect.

The only thing that I do not like about Wal-Mart is that it is always full of people, but they rarely have more than three registers open.  Whats more is that the self-checkout lanes are not any better - they are often out of commission when the store is at its busiest.  Are low prices worth the hassle of waiting in queues that are ten people deep? 

Does Jacksonville have too many Wal-Marts?  Well, if Mayor John Peyton's analysis is correct, our city is a giant Wal-Mart!

Quote from: KenFSU on February 10, 2011, 11:07:13 PM

Quote from: Steve on February 10, 2011, 09:34:57 PM

Totally agree.

Let the free market do its job, and let consumers vote with their dollars.

WalMart, ethics aside, has undoubtedly and immeasurably improved the quality of life for tens of millions of low income families.

How can you say Walmart has "immeasurably" improved QOL, ethics aside?  I'm not sure exploiting foreign labor is where Walmart draws the line...their anti-union, sex discrimination, part-time hiring, low-wage paying, mom 'n pop store killing employment practices have been fairly exploitive in the U.S., as well.  Ethics aside, I guess you're right.  Viva la Free Market!

I wasn't taking a stance pro or against Walmart's business practices.

I was, quite literally, excluding ethics from the conversation.

I stand by my original statement. Walmart has improved quality of life for the average American family. It has stretched their dollar significantly farther. Big box stores aren't everyones cup of tea, myself included, but at the end of the day, a massive superstore has the ability to sell everything at a lower cost (and often a lower profit) than 20 separate Mom and Pop stores selling sports equipment, or video games, or hardware, or whatever. Numerous studies show a significant increase in disposable income in communities where a Walmart opens.

I'm making no argument whatsoever about the cultural or ethical implications of said superstores, only that - when measuring quality of life in purely economical terms - it's ridiculos to argue that stores like Walmart are inherently bad relative smaller stores.

Wal-Mart will eventually suffer the fate that Sears has, and many business analysts agree.

There has always been too many walmarts...it's a travisty...they suck money from people by selling crap from a country that would love to take us over..i'd love to know exactly what percent of their merchandise is from the USA....

Quote from: KenFSU on February 11, 2011, 12:39:12 AM
it's ridiculos to argue that stores like Walmart are inherently bad relative smaller stores.

The only reason I commented on your original post is because you make it seem as if there is no question that every new 200,000 sqft Walmart Supercenter is a boon for the local economy.  While there is plenty of research that supports the fact that Walmart saves consumers $millions, there is also a lot of research that shows that Walmart places major downward pressure on wages...and not just its own.  There is a cost and a benefit to opening a new Walmart, but many researchers/academics think it's a zero-sum game (i.e., jobs created by Walmart come at the expense of lost jobs at local retailers, and most of the savings captured by consumers is eroded by the lower wages paid by Walmart and other employers due to Walmart's entry in the local market). 

That's part of the economic cost/benefit...what happens when you include the environment, infrastructure, etc.?  I don't (completely) hate Walmart.  I'm just saying the argument is certainly not as simple as you've implied.

^^^You guys need to read more.  Garden Guy, read about Wal-Mart's history or about Sam Walton.  reednavy, I would agree if I hadn't seen Wal-Mart adapting well to the times.  Discount prices are here to stay (as they always have been), and Wal-Mart is catching on with the urban crowd, too.  75% of New Yorkers wish WMT were in city limits.  The only people opposed seemed to be wealthy Manhattanites and city councilmen who demanded to let WMT in only if they unionized.  There are now two, smaller WMT stores catering to health conscious urbanites in Atlanta (and they are in urban infill developments).

Look for them to exceed EPS on February 22 when their 10-K comes out.  That's a Tuesday, and if they're on time then they will be putting out the news on about the best day of the week for earnings reports (scheduled Monday reports are widely considered evidence of probably bad news).

Academics schmacademics, these academics are the types who have been teaching and talking for a career, but have never been in the private sector.  They either need to go to b-school, or find a new job just for the experience.

Quote from: simms3 on February 11, 2011, 08:58:06 AM
They either need to go to b-school, or find a new job just for the experience.

Not sure who you think teaches students at b-school.  That's right: the "schmacademics."

The best business schools take on a lot of private sector guys.  They were CEOs first and academics second (in semi-retirement).  Nice try.  And it's not like all the academics are predicting a downfall of WMT or ragging on the company, either.  It's actually a case study for good business, hence why it may be the most studied company in Harvard Biz Review (either it, Disney, or Apple).

WalMart has captured one market that 99% of the other big box stores, mom and pop shops, etc don't. 

24/7 Shopping

Try finding a store that's open at 1AM to do your shopping at.  Most the stores in this city shuts down at 9PM.  While they are closed, WalMart stays open.

I don't know about the rest but the Walmart on Philips closes at midnight.

Quote from: Garden guy on February 11, 2011, 08:25:17 AM
There has always been too many walmarts...it's a travisty...they suck money from people by selling crap from a country that would love to take us over..i'd love to know exactly what percent of their merchandise is from the USA....

There are several links on this, but most agree that around 85% of their merchandise is NOT made in the USA. Then again, it is hard to find merchandise like Wal-mart sales being made in the USA. I am OK with a free market, I am not OK with what some countries (ie China) is putting in their products. How often do we hear about a product recall on say baby formula, dog food, kids toys all with some type of poison in them. Ahhhh welll I guess you get what you pay for!

Quote from: simms3 on February 11, 2011, 09:11:11 AM
The best business schools take on a lot of private sector guys.  They were CEOs first and academics second (in semi-retirement).  Nice try.  And it's not like all the academics are predicting a downfall of WMT or ragging on the company, either.  It's actually a case study for good business, hence why it may be the most studied company in Harvard Biz Review (either it, Disney, or Apple).

I'm in business school, and it's a decent one.  Not a ton of professors here from industry.  Sure, they come to speak all the time, but not many professors. Walmart is definitely talked about, mostly in a supply chain or operations context.  Disney and Apple are discussed less frequently than Toyota and Southwest.  I didn't say anything about the impending downfall of WMT.  I just pointed out that not all research on the economic impact of WMT is as obviously positive as you argue.

Quote from: acme54321 on February 11, 2011, 09:29:30 AM
I don't know about the rest but the Walmart on Philips closes at midnight.

The ones at Beach/Southside and Monument/9A I believe are both 24-hour.

Walmart: Low prices, low quality. Its success is based on the desire to pay less for items in the present, regardless of their long term durability or quality. Instead of buying a product for a lifetime, you buy one every couple years. You don't actually save money in terms of present value, but you save money today. It's not like Walmart gets high quality products and is able to bring the price down only through low margins at a large scale. Its cheaper because they are buying products that cost less. Hence, Walmart sells and XBox for the same price as everybody else, because there is no cheap "generic" version of these to sell.

No real problem with Walmart as a company. It behaves as a company is meant to. Mainly, making money. For the largest company in the world, it is a surprisingly benign enterprise, using its size to force suppliers to be more environmentally efficient, for example. Of course, there are the labor and gender issues, but I don't know enough to comment. As they say, you get what you pay for.

And not to stray too far from the spirit of the thread topic, but I think there's a case to be made by replacing "Walmarts" in the thread title with other ubiquitous things around town like "pizza joints," "sushi bars," "CVSs," or "Mediterranean restaurants" and the like.

It's not a Wal-Mart thing, it's a general over-expansion across-the-board thing.

Quote from: acme54321 on February 11, 2011, 09:29:30 AM
I don't know about the rest but the Walmart on Philips closes at midnight.

Really? Is it a Super Center? I don't think I've ever seen one that closes.

Secretly the Chinese own Wal-Mart since more than 51% of the Big-Box Mart products are made in China.

Quote from: PeeJayEss on February 17, 2011, 10:58:33 AM
Walmart: Low prices, low quality. Its success is based on the desire to pay less for items in the present, regardless of their long term durability or quality. Instead of buying a product for a lifetime, you buy one every couple years. You don't actually save money in terms of present value, but you save money today.

In some cases, definitely, but WalMart's economy of scale does allow them to price every day staple items significantly cheaper than other stores. I can buy things like razors, batteries, coffee, paper towels, cereal, office supplies, small kitchen appliances, and hundreds of other name brand items at Walmart for a lower cost than I can anywhere else. To me, that's a good thing. Big box or not, it's good for the economy in that it allows that extra $20 you save over shopping somewhere else to be used for something else. If a low income family switches to shopping at Wal-Mart, by virtue of this simple shift, they might suddenly find themselves able to afford to go out for pizza on Saturday nights. That's what I mean by improving quality of life and putting more money back into the economy. I have a hard time taking issue with that.

I love Wal-Marts prices, but there are just to many of them here, but I'm more concerned about restaurants, small shops, etc. I hate the chains, and wish there were more small business'. In Seattle and Portland all you see are small business'.

Quote from: PeeJayEss on February 17, 2011, 10:58:33 AM
Walmart: Low prices, low quality.

Based on what? Gimme some examples on brands that aren't up to par? They have quality name brand products (Tide, Coke, Brawny etc.) just like everyone's beloved and overpriced Publix. Even Wal-Mart's generic products (Great Value) are very good. I actually think that there are too many Publixes in this city; Have anybody ever been down Beach or Atlantic lately?    

QuoteHave anybody ever been down Beach or Atlantic lately?

Nope, the developers ruined Beach Blvd. I used to be able to drive from Avondale to Jax Beach on a Sunday without hitting a red light. Those days are long gone. Beach and Atlantic keep the stop light people in business.

Quote from: copperfiend on February 17, 2011, 11:25:19 AM

Quote from: acme54321 on February 11, 2011, 09:29:30 AM
I don't know about the rest but the Walmart on Philips closes at midnight.

Really? Is it a Super Center? I don't think I've ever seen one that closes.

It does. Both of the ones on Philips close. The one close to Emerson I can understand- that's probably the sketchiest one in town. I asked why the other one closes and the manager at the time said it was due to the area that it was in and that it was already usually dead by 11pm. I think that's kinda evidence that they've reached their limit for that side of town.

I work nights so Walmart is beneficial to me but I'm careful about going. The last time I went to the one on Beach near Southside, four young guys tailed me around the store for about 20 minutes. I'm normally pretty careful about parking lot safety but I'm really on-guard when I go late at night.

We're in a 24 hour society now and I guess Walmart is the only one financially able to step up to the plate or maybe no one else is interested in it. Home Depot did 24hrs for a little while- that was some of the oddest, most fun shopping I've ever done.

Quote from: I-10east on February 17, 2011, 06:31:28 PM
Based on what? Gimme some examples on brands that aren't up to par? They have quality name brand products (Tide, Coke, Brawny etc.) just like everyone's beloved and overpriced Publix. Even Wal-Mart's generic products (Great Value) are very good. I actually think that there are too many Publixes in this city; Have anybody ever been down Beach or Atlantic lately?   

I thought we had a lot of Publix stores until I went to Tampa. There's one every couple of blocks it seems. I actually think walmart has much better store-brand products that Publix. Walmart's salsas are actually really good. I haven't had any issues with most things I've bought from Walmart. I don't think I'll be furniture shopping there and I don't really care for their meat or produce but then again the produce everywhere is usually a ripoff compared to the Beaver St farmer's market.

Once upon a time, our nearest Wal-Mart was in neighboring St. Johns County.  Back then, Pic-n-Save was the go-to store for those who wanted savings.  The problem is that no local retailer was prepared to compete with Wal-Mart as this kind of store was something that really threw most retailers for a loop.  If consumer demand were different or local stores more strategic, we might have had a different outcome with regard to the number of Wal-Mart stores in our area. 

IMO the Northside really could use another Walmart in the inner city area. The closest Wal-Marts to inner-city Jax is the ones on Lem Turner, Normandy, and Philips Hwy; That's just ridiculous.

I think one of these at a redeveloped Gateway Mall or Norwood Plaza would be quite nice.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1429778865_PFKMGVv-M.jpg)
An urban Wal-mart in Long Beach, CA.

How about the Walmart Grocery Store?  I believe it is called Neighborhood Market.  Anyone have thoughts about it?

Walmart proposed a Neighborhood Market along Atlantic Blvd a few years back and people raised cain over it because it was owned by Walmart.  Personally, Neighborhood Markets, Aldi's, etc. don't bother me.  Every store can't be a Publix or Winn-Dixie.

The trouble with that stretch of Atlantic Boulevard near University Boulevard is that it is a traffic mess during evening rush hour.  I wonder if the opposition to the Neighborhood Market was due in part to fears over additional traffic in the area?  I know that the new residential units on the old children's hospital property also add to the traffic, but I wonder if the Wal-Mart bogeyman raised enough hackles in people to oppose the neighborhood market, but not a new apartment complex...  That said, the vicinity around Atlantic and University does not look very appealing to new retail or dining options.  I especially pity the poor service station that is near the southwest corner of the two major roads.  It doesn't seem to have a chance at staying open...

I think that apartment complex was built on the site that Walmart had selected for their store.  I wonder if that apartment complex generates more daily auto trips than the Neighborhood Market would have?

You are right about the location of the proposed neighborhood market.  I guess that the number of daily auto trips would depend on commuting patterns (when the apartment residents work) versus steady traffic during the Neighborhood Market's hours of operation.  Furthermore, the same kinds of trucks that go to Publix would be going to the Neighborhood Market. 
On a side note, with the Mathews Bridge detours, there are times where I completely avoid Atlantic Boulevard because of the gridlock in that area....