Metro Jacksonville

BRT North Corridor Project Moving Forward

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With a public hearing approaching on February 15th, Metro Jacksonville takes a look at JTA's proposed BRT North Corridor Project.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-feb-brt-north-corridor-project-moving-forward

When they are making the decision to do a project such as this, how carefully are the alternatives considered?  An alternative in my mind would be a streetcar on the same route.  It would be interesting to see a line-by-line comparison of costs, ridership, fare collection and economic impact for each type of system.  Or was the decision to build BRT instead of LRT made long ago and now we are seeing the result of a previous comparitive study?

Streetcars were never considered.  BRT beat out LRT about a decade ago.  However, a look at the old studies indicate they were heavily titled in favor of the bus.

Hey you know ive been looking at houses for sale on boulevard and i was told that the rapidbus line would turn and go up jefferson street when it got to springfield and then go back onto boulevard after it.  do you know what im saying? man I wouldnt want this going down my street

Currently, you already have 15 minute headways on this corridor from Golfair to Soutel (L7, L8) & Rosa Park to Gateway along 2 different paths (L7 past Shands to 95/Golfair & L8 through Brentwood).  All these millions of dollars are going to be poured in to fund a BRT that is only going to increase the headways from Soutel to Wal-Mart from 30 min to 15 min.  Seems like a bunch of BS to me.  If they're really concerned about the Wal-Mart, then they should add a Transit Station at/near Soutel and have a dedicated loop from there to the Wal-mart (think community shuttle)  Once again, an easy way to do a lot more with a lot less.

Any line that dead ends at Wal-Mart can't be taken seriously.  Unless the Walton family is contributing to the construction costs.....  Then you've got my attention.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 10, 2011, 08:57:31 AM
Any line that dead ends at Wal-Mart can't be taken seriously.  Unless the Walton family is contributing to the construction costs.....  Then you've got my attention.

I'd completely agree, but in the case of Lem Turner, there's nothing beyond the wal-mart except for some woods and the national cemetery and some sod fields.  It's not a bad place to turn around.

But I guess you wouldn't be too surprised if I told you that line went from the Wal-Mart on Lem Turner, through downtown, to the Wal-Mart on Normandy - that's the sham - it should be 2 seperate lines with transfers at Rosa Park.

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on February 10, 2011, 08:17:46 AM
Currently, you already have 15 minute headways on this corridor from Golfair to Soutel (L7, L8) & Rosa Park to Gateway along 2 different paths (L7 past Shands to 95/Golfair & L8 through Brentwood).  All these millions of dollars are going to be poured in to fund a BRT that is only going to increase the headways from Soutel to Wal-Mart from 30 min to 15 min.  Seems like a bunch of BS to me.  If they're really concerned about the Wal-Mart, then they should add a Transit Station at/near Soutel and have a dedicated loop from there to the Wal-mart (think community shuttle)  Once again, an easy way to do a lot more with a lot less.

Of course reliable service could be provided without spending millions.  You can easily "brand" and modify an existing bus line (in this case, the L8), with minimal improvements and provide the same service for a fraction of the costs.  For example, outside of some areas along Lem Turner, this corridor is not congested (and isn't projected too), so you don't need dedicated lanes, TSP or a large number of queue jumps.  If you have a bus coming every 10 minutes, you can get away without having to make a significant investment in real-time information as well.  To pay for bus shelters, the shelter advertising RFP should be revisited and modified to attract bidders.   In the end, this BRT thing seems like a solution to land federal money to purchase new buses, which happen to be a majority of the capital costs.

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OCKLAWAHA ;D ;D

Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 10, 2011, 08:57:31 AM
Any line that dead ends at Wal-Mart can't be taken seriously.  Unless the Walton family is contributing to the construction costs.....  Then you've got my attention.

Where ya been?? All roads lead to Wally World here in good ol Jacksonville.

Why carry it all the way to JIA?  I would think the majority of those going to the airport have no need to stop by shands, gateway and wal-mart (unless they're filling their carry-ons with shampoo bottles).

Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on February 10, 2011, 09:48:05 AM
Why carry it all the way to JIA?  I would think the majority of those going to the airport have no need to stop by shands, gateway and wal-mart (unless they're filling their carry-ons with shampoo bottles).

Because people on the north and northwest side of town go to the airport too. Besides a good number work in the Free Trade Zone, hotels and shops. Coach Inc., Sally Beauty Co. and American Body Armor and Equipment â€" now known as Armor Holdings, are in the tradeport. The Military base has 300 full time and over 1,000 PT employees, and nearly 500,000 passengers a month, up 8% use the airport every month. Seems to me we need to connect the dots. It also gives the Springfield-Brentwood-Norwood residents direct airport access. And last but not least, by going to the airport, the route passes several choice park and ride sites.

JIA is NEVER going to get beyond the small feeder airport stage as long as it remains isolated from the pulse of the city. BRT, Commuter Rail and the River City Market Place could all play a big role in giving us a lift.


OCKLAWAHA (http://thumb5.webshots.net/t/83/183/0/71/34/2309071340104969885sMpqcT_th.jpg)

Let me try this another way:  Why have the BRT go from Rosa Park to JIA via all the other places that were mentioned before.  If you want direct access, then add a transit station at the end of a main line - L8 @ the Wal-Mart - and have another dedicated line with 'x' amount of busses to service the route from wal-mart to JEA.  We already have a direct line from Rosa Park to JIA via the CT3.

This route would not serve ROSA PARKS rather it comes out of the JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL and shoots straight north. Rosa Parks will likely become the gathering place for buses headed to or from the east and eastside.

Whenever you take a single route, and the northside due to bridges has basically 3, and split them into 4-6 more direct routes, you:

Dilute the headways on all of those routes, making waits longer and the system fails due to inconvenience.
You also complicate the mechanism by which people understand travel, IE: single path.
Labor is 75% of your expense in mass transit (general guideline) - fairbox is only 25% of your income.
Due to expense, better utilization of stations rather then spreading out into several routes is preferable.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 10, 2011, 08:57:31 AM
Any line that dead ends at Wal-Mart can't be taken seriously.  Unless the Walton family is contributing to the construction costs.....  Then you've got my attention.

as much as I hate Wal-Mart, they are a pretty big generator for transit (customers and employees)...plus they are more open to bringing buses through their parking lot up to the store than Target.

This is true TU, the city and JTA together should push an incentive package over and above the Mobility Plan for any shopping center or crowd destination that welcomes transit curbside. I'm sure the legal eagles could come up with wording that specify the business must be on a established transit route, and have sufficient passenger volume and operational space for transit vehicles.

OCKLAWAHA

Ock, in the event that only existing road infrastructure could be utilized, what route do you believe would be best for this corridor?

I have no problem with the Boulevard-Broad, and Jefferson Street alignments UNTIL they reach Shand's. They should be able to create a close-in station at the hospital without using 8Th Street. The aerial photo shows there is even an opportunity for JTA-SHAND'S-CITY to cooperate and create a covered CONCOURSE that ties it all together. Doing it this way would open up a natural area for the station between the hospital-medical buildings and between parking lot and street.

I'd hold to Pearl all the way to 44Th then jog over to Golfair-Norwood and beyond to Lem Turner.

OCKLAWAHA

FYI, the public hearing for this project is this afternoon at Gateway Mall.

QuoteBRT North Corridor Public Hearing/Notice of Availability

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA) is conducting an Environmental Assessment for the BRT North Corridor project. This project will provide near-term improvements in transit service for the North Corridor beginning downtown at Broad and State streets, along Boulevard Street to the Gateway Shopping Center, along Golfair Boulevard and Norwood Avenue, and continue along Lem Turner Road to Armsdale Road near 1-295.

When/Where

Tuesday, February 15
4:30â€"7 p.m. (Formal Presentation at 6 p.m.)
Gateway Mall indoor stage (near JTA's Gateway Transit Hub)
5258 Norwood Ave., Jacksonville, FL 32208

Purpose

The purpose of the public hearing is to share project information and seek comments in a formal setting for the proposed North Corridor BRT Environmental Assessment. The Federal Transit Administration Region IV office has authorized the Notice of Availability of the North Corridor BRT Environmental Assessment for public review and comment. All interested parties are invited to review and comment on the Environmental Assessment.

Meeting Format

The meeting will be an open house where citizens can review information and maps and provide input. Members of the public are encouraged to attend the meetings and to discuss the study and ask questions of staff.

Leaving work and heading there now.  See you all in a few!

Obama’s proposed budget includes $6.4 million for bus-only lanes in Jacksonville

QuoteNorthside residents hoping for improved bus service received a financial boost courtesy of President Barack Obama this week.


The president’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2012 allocates $6.4 million for bus-only lanes in North Jacksonville. The lanes would run in both directions from the Rosa Parks Transfer Station downtown on State Street along Boulevard Street to Golfair Boulevard, then along Brentwood Avenue, continuing north along Norwood Avenue/Lem Turner Road before ending at the Walmart Supercenter just south of Interstate 295.


Construction is scheduled to begin in 2013 and finish in 2014 at a cost of $21.3 million. The Jacksonville Transportation Authority is still looking for more funding opportunities at the state and federal level to offset the $14.9 million it now has to pay, spokeswoman Wendy Morrow  said.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-02-15/story/obama%E2%80%99s-proposed-budget-includes-64-million-bus-only-lanes-jacksonville