Metro Jacksonville

Let's be clear about Scott's advisor's report:

QuoteRobert Poole, one of Scott’s transportation transition team advisers, helped write the report, which states that the rail line that would connect Tampa and Orlando could cost $3 billion more than the current official estimate of $2.7 billion. The report even recommended abandoning the project altogether.

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/report-rick-scott-advisor-recommends-cancelling-high-speed-rail-project

Who are the Transit/Rail Critics?

Many people now recognize that rebuilding our roads and expanding our highways cannot alone solve problems such as suburban flight or congested roads. Funding for transportation projects is on the rise as more American cities consider rail systems for their communities. Yet mass transit still has its critics.

CFTE has compiled the following list of events, organizations and individuals that perpetuate common transit myths using erroneous information. If you know of a transit critic who is not listed here, please let us know so that we can include their information and activities.

The "Preserving the American Dream" Coalition and Conference

The critics of public transportation, smart growth and planning convened a national conference in Washington, D.C., in February, 2003. The conference, titled "Preserving the American Dream of Mobility and Homeownership” drew close to 150 participants from across the U.S. Organizers hope to repeat the event annually, with the 2004 conference being planned for Portland, Oregon. Conference goals included: (1) development of a new coalition to oppose the smart growth movement.; (2) encourage the emergence of similar, smaller regional conferences to be held across the country; and (3) continue to build momentum for their movement through the creation of an annual, national conference. The 2003 conference kicked-off with a debate between transit critic Wendell Cox and the father of "New Urbanism", Andres Duany. Themes discussed at the conference included: identifying free market remedies to transportation problems; demonstrating the failure of rail projects; "reclaiming" the affordable housing debate; fighting restrictions on property rights; outlining flaws in regional transportation, land-use and growth plans; influencing local boards, elected officials, opposition groups and allies; developing effective messages, media campaigns and advertising strategies; and shaping state, local and national public policies.
To view more information on the coalition, conference and their future plans, visit: http://www.americandreamcoalition.org/

Opponent Organizations (In their own words)
American Dream Coalition represents the outcome of the first annual "Preserving the American Dream" conference held in Washington, D.C. in February, 2003. Organizers of the conference have developed plans for regional mini-conferences on themes of smart growth, planning and public transportation. The website includes resources for journalists, an opportunity to become a member of the coalition and fact sheets on various public policy issues.

The Buckeye Institute is a public policy research and education institute, or think tank. As an independent, nonprofit, nonpartisan organization, its purpose is to provide Ohio's leaders and citizens with new ways of thinking about problems facing our state and local communities. The Institute's researchers and scholars focus on issues such as education, taxes and spending, economic development, health care, welfare, and the environment.

Georgia Public Policy Foundation
the Foundation is the only private, nonpartisan research and education organization in Georgia that focuses on state policy issues. The Foundation's members are a diverse group of Georgians that share a common belief that the solutions to most problems lie in a strong private sector, not in a big government bureaucracy.

The Reason Foundation was founded in 1978 in Los Angeles and is a national research and educational organization that explores and promotes the twin values of rationality and freedom as the basic underpinnings of a good society. In advocating public policies based upon individual liberty and responsibility and a free-market approach, the Reason Foundation turns to practical policy research and insightful commentary -- not idealistic rhetoric.

The Independence Institute was founded in 1985 and is a non-partisan, non-profit public policy research organization dedicated to providing timely information to concerned citizens, government officials, and public opinion leaders. The Institute addresses a broad variety of public policy issues from a free-market, pro-freedom perspective.

The Reason Public Policy Institute conducts research which fuses theory and practice to craft workable policy changes that foster individual responsibility, choice, and competition. RPPI believes that a dynamic world, conducive to discovery and innovation, is essential to prosperity and human progress. RPPI's work involves six main areas: privatization and government reform, environment, transportation, education, land use and economic development and social policy.

The Public Purpose is run by Wendell Cox Consultancy Its mission is "to facilitate the ideal of government as the servant of the people by identifying and implementing strategies to achieve public purposes at a cost that is no higher than necessary." The Public Purpose focuses on issues of international public policy, demographics, economics and transport.

The CATO Institute was founded in 1977 and is a nonpartisan public policy research foundation headquartered in Washington, D.C. The Institute is named for Cato's Letters, libertarian pamphlets that helped lay the philosophical foundation for the American Revolution. The Institute strives to achieve greater involvement of the intelligent, concerned lay public in questions of policy and the proper role of government.

Cascade Policy Institute is Oregon's premier policy research center. Its mission is to promote innovative, voluntary, market-oriented solutions to Oregon's policy problems. Cascade combines sound theory with practical application to develop policy alternatives that strengthen Oregon's economy, support personal responsibility, and secure individual freedom.

The Heritage Foundation was founded in 1973 and is a research and educational institute - a think tank - whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.


Individual Critics:
Randal O’Toole, Executive Director of Oregon’s Thoreau Institute (http://www.ti.org).
His publications include: ISTEA: A Poisonous Brew for America’s Cities; Light Rail Myths and Realities; The Vanishing Automobile; and Light Rail: Yesterday’s Technology Tomorrow. O’Toole’s background is in economics, and prior to being energized by Portland’s Urban Growth Boundary, he worked mainly on forest issues and against the federal subsidization of logging. He was the primary organizer of the February 2003 transit critics conference, "Preserving the American Dream."

Wendell Cox, a self-employed privatization proponent who lives in the St. Louis area who has written attacks on transit and Amtrak for the Cato Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Highway Users Alliance and others. His work includes the Cato publication False Dreams and Broken Promises: The Wasteful Federal Investment in Mass Transit and has continued with numerous op-eds, seminars and radio and TV appearances in communities considering new transit investments. Cox has authored reports for the Wisconsin Policy Center and the James Madison Institute attacking the proposed Milwaukee rail system and the Florida Overland Express high speed rail project. Cox’s background as an expert is derived from his appointment to the old Los Angeles County Transportation Commission as a citizen member. He has been employed by various conservative and road building groups over the years. Cox is also known for his anti-Portland and transit-bashing website, (http://www.publicpurpose.com), which Peter Gordon has cited in his presentations.

John Semmens, a fellow at Phoenix's Goldwater Institute. His major contribution so far is the report "Public Transit: A Worthwhile Investment?" The report was an attempt to de-rail the Phoenix Transit 2000 initiative, which called for a .4 percent tax increase to expand bus service and build a light rail line there. The ballot measure was approved in March of 2000. Semmens' report includes a number of fact sheets, including "A Declining Industry", "A Financial Disaster", "A Blight on the Economy", and "A Failure Everywhere."

Robert Poole, President of the Reason Foundation. He and others at the Reason Foundation have published detailed attacks on the Los Angeles MTA’s rail projects and on transit investments in general. Poole came to Phoenix before the 1997 referendum to attack the proposed regional transit system at seminars and on the radio. This visit created negative coverage in several local media outlets, including the Arizona Republic, which was otherwise in favor of the project.

Stephen Mueller of the Independence Institute played a role in undermining support for the 1997 referendum on the Denver light rail project with his paper Light Rail In Denver: Taking Taxpayers for a Ride and numerous appearances in the local media.

John Charles of the Cascade Policy Institute in Oregon began as an environmentalist and has evolved into a libertarian who promotes congestion pricing and attacks transit and planned growth. His recommendations include: "Local transit taxes should be abolished, Oregon’s ties to federal government transit funding should be terminated, and publicly owned transit assets should be auctioned off. Stop any further spending on publicly owned urban rail systems." He also travels to spread the word: the Phoenix Business Journal reported that "... Charles was invited to Phoenix by the Goldwater Institute."

Peter Samuel, editor of the self-published Toll Roads Newsletter, wrote a piece for the Reason Foundation which makes the case that one can build one’s way out of congestion. Samuel is a libertarian and an advocate of building toll roads and converting existing highways to toll roads as a solution to transportation problems. His past work includes writings for the Cato Institute promoting highway privatization, and he is also associated with something called the Sutherland Institute, and has joined the fray over Salt Lake City’s light rail proposal, arguing that the absence of rail has been a reason for growth in the West.

Other main actors include Peter Gordon and Harry Richardson of the University of Southern California, Charles Lave of the University of California at Irvine, Steven Hayward of the Commonwealth Foundation in Pennsylvania, and others.



The Highway Lobby
The Road Information Program (TRIP) is a 501 (c) (6) organization sponsored by "equipment manufacturers, distributors and supplies, and businesses involved in highway engineering, construction and financing" -- in short, by the highway building industry. (http://http://www.tripnet.org/).

The American Highway Users Alliance is the lobbying arm of the automotive and highway industries, (it was founded by General Motors in the 1940s). The President of the AHUA is William D. Fay. While not a transportation or smart growth expert, he has extensive experience in negative PR campaigns, having led the industry campaign on the renewal of the Clean Air Act in 1990 and having led the manufacturing lobby’s campaign to limit product liability. ( http://www.highways.org )

The American Automobile Association (AAA) is best known for its excellent road service, and is primarily a service provider to its subscribers. However, the AAA also has a long history of lobbying for more roads to the exclusion of other transportation modes.

The American Road and Transportation Builders Association is the main lobbying arm of asphalt, concrete, steel and engineering companies. While their members mainly build roads, some also build transit systems, so their rhetoric tends to be more pro-road and less anti-transit. (http://www.artba.org)

The Pro-Sprawl Lobby
Pro-Sprawl Players
Funny thing…..anti-transit people tend to also be pro-sprawl. After reviewing Sprawl Watch Clearinghouse’s list of pro-sprawl players, one begins to understand the “other” perspective.

Other Resources
Transport-Policy Yahoo Group
A favorite meeting place for critics of public transportation, this group has dozens of postings a day.

http://www.cfte.org/critics/who.asp

Wow.  I don't think the HSR plan on the table is the best Florida can do but the guys mentioned in that article are well known anti rail zealots.  Whatever they criticize, you can bet your house that their report is cooked well done.  On the other hand, I doubt a better substitute materializes by completely canceling the project.  Instead, that money will just move on the California or some other progressive state.

Which for Florida would be a good thing Lake. California using existing railroad right of way for over 75% of their HSR will show the nation how it is done. California is also not making Anaheim (Disney)  the "false hub," of the whole state. In fact, California's system doesn't use the airline hub and spokes concept that is so ridiculous in Florida's plan. They also are not planning to march it up I-5 in the western sage brush hills of the San Joaquin Valley, then claim it will stop sprawl over on the "Golden State Freeway." up the center of the same valley. Seem's it is a railroad designed by experienced railroaders with some expertise in the operation and planning of intercity passenger trains. Florida's plan is just a mistake, however it happens and we're way better off tossing the plan in the garbage and starting over.

Certainly there ARE anti-rail zealot's out there, and for the most part they do it with all the right intentions but a completely wrong database. The job for the pro rail citizens of the country is to continue to ramp up the demand for improvements, and prove the naysayers wrong where ever possible.

That substitute won't materialize until AFTER California, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, Oregon and Washington have proved beyond a doubt how it is done. The pressure is already there, we'll just need some direction and another shot at future funding, perhaps even partnering with Amtrak, which has some experience themselves.

Quote
First leg of California high-speed rail line takes shape

By John Ellis | Fresno Bee

Construction of the state's proposed high-speed rail system should begin with a 54-mile stretch in the central San Joaquin Valley running from south of Madera, through Fresno, to near Corcoran in Kings County, staff from the authority overseeing the project recommended Wednesday.

The California High-Speed Rail Authority board still must approve the staff's recommendation.

In a morning teleconference, Jeff Barker, the authority's deputy executive director, said the northern terminus would be near Borden, a location south of Madera and north of the Fresno-Madera county line.

The tracks would then be elevated through Fresno, and would include a downtown station. From Fresno, the line would head south, skirting the eastern side of Hanford, where there a station is tentatively planned near the junction of Highways 198 and 43. The initial phase would end near Corcoran.

In recommending the initial route â€" which would cost $4.3 billion to build â€" officials looked at pros and cons of other layouts. Another possible route, for instance, started south of Fresno and ended near Shafter in Kern County.

But one factor loomed large in the decision: strings attached to the $715 million in federal government money for the project. The feds want track that can be used even if the high-speed rail project is derailed.

If funding for the project falls short, Barker said, this initial stretch could be connected at the north and south ends to the existing Burlington Northern Santa Fe tracks, which are used by Amtrak. Connecting to the BNSF would entail building about 11 additional miles of track.

That, however, is a "worst-case scenario," rail officials said.

"We are not in the business of building of short piece of track," Barker said. "We are in the business of building L.A. to San Francisco."

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/24/104309/first-leg-of-california-high-speed.html#ixzz1AOxSVErH

QuoteBut one factor loomed large in the decision: strings attached to the $715 million in federal government money for the project. The feds want track that can be used even if the high-speed rail project is derailed.

I think we're starting to see that reality check you and I keep talking about Ennis and hey, it's not Republican. 

OCKLAWAHA

I had not heard anything about Robert Poole advising Scot....got any proof of this (other than the article)?

btw....Scott's transition team reviewed all agencies...FDOT actually got pretty good marks.

I don't know if its a good thing for Florida to miss out on an opportunity for significant rail investment and manufacturing job creation, while Obama is in office.  When he's out, it will probably be another decade before rail is seriously discussed in this country.  Don't fool yourself, the only alternative that will rise to the table from the group in Tallahassee now is more roads at a more significant cost to taxpayers.  At this point, i'd like to see a cap placed on the estimate to protect taxpayers and let the private sector bid and figure out the most cost efficient way to get an initial system established that attracts the highest ridership possible.  My gut feeling is, if it were handled this way, we'd end up with something more cost efficient and better than what's been preliminary cooked up so far.  

By the way, I came across this article that you should find interesting:

QuoteTalgo seeks work in states given Wisconsin's rail share

Talgo announced it would close its Milwaukee plant in 2012, leaving only a maintenance base. The company is building two trains for Amtrak's existing Milwaukee-to-Chicago Hiawatha line and two trains for Oregon, but it also had hoped to build two trains for the Hiawatha extension to Madison.

In a notable contrast, however, Talgo has joined the competition to build and operate a high-speed rail system in Florida, even though that state's governor-elect has voiced concerns about the $2.7 billion project's future.

Talgo also plans to compete to build trains for Illinois and Washington when those states seek proposals next year, said Nora Friend, a Talgo vice president.

But the Florida and Wisconsin situations differ significantly, because Florida's governor-elect didn't close the door to proceeding with rail plans the way that Walker did, Friend said in an interview before the funding decision was announced.

Florida's Governor-elect Rick Scott also is skeptical about the costs of a planned 168-mph high-speed rail line from Tampa to Orlando. But unlike fellow Republicans Walker and Kasich, Scott didn't issue an unequivocal promise to end his state's high-speed rail project, Friend said.

Instead, Scott has said only that he doesn't want state taxpayers to cover any of the Florida system's costs. The federal government has already awarded the state more than $2 billion for construction, and Thursday's decision added up to $342.3 million more. Florida officials have said the companies building and running the system should absorb all operating costs themselves.

With that in mind, the bidders are coming up with their own plans to fill any remaining funding gap, Friend said.

Talgo has joined forces with other Spanish, American and Portuguese companies in Florida Mobility Partners, one of eight international consortiums of high-speed rail engineering, construction and operating businesses vying for the Florida work.

full article: http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/111764839.html

Quote from: tufsu1 on January 07, 2011, 08:49:26 PM
I had not heard anything about Robert Poole advising Scot....got any proof of this (other than the article)?

btw....Scott's transition team reviewed all agencies...FDOT actually got pretty good marks.

Scott's actual study won't be complete for another month:

QuoteScott has been skeptical of the plan, and in a brief discussion with reporters from the Miami Herald on Thursday he said he was waiting for another study â€" possibly completed next month â€" before deciding what to do about it.

"At that point, I would go through and see what the feasibility is and what the cost to the state will be," Scott said.

Scott also said he would talk to potential bidders about possibly funding part of the train. Attempts to reach the governor's office for further comment were unsuccessful.

As many as seven international consortiums made up of some of the largest transit companies in the world have said they are interested. Some have indicated a willingness to invest their own money.

Full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-high-speed-rail-scott-20110106,0,5295795.story

Quote from: tufsu1 on January 07, 2011, 08:49:26 PM
I had not heard anything about Robert Poole advising Scot....got any proof of this (other than the article)?

Here you go tufsu1:

QuoteNOVEMBER 29, 2010 Rick Scott announces transition team aimed economy
The 76-member team is tasked with finding ways to reduce the size of government, cut regulation on businesses and find ways to attract new businesses to the state so the Republican governor-elect can fulfilll his promise of 700,000 new jobs in the next seven years.

Like Scott's previous transition teams, this one dips into the pool of special interests and lobbyists.

Some of the highlights include Wayne Huizenga, Jr., who is heading the Economic Development Transition Team; University of Florida President Bernie Machen; Alan Levine, who is also head of Scott's healthcare transition team; Tampa/Hillsborough Expressway Authority Joe Waggoner; Florida Justice Reform Institute lobbyist William Large.

Here's the entire team:

The Economic Development Transition Team Includes: Chair: Wayne Huizenga, Jr., Huizenga Holdings

Amy Evancho, President & CEO, Florida Economic Development Council; Nancy Thompson, Regional VP, ResCare Workforce Services; Tammie Nemecek, President, Collier County Economic Development Council; Chuck Cobb, Senior Managing Director and CEO, Cobb Partners; Anthony Connelly, Senior Vice President and CFO, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts US; Allen Douglas, Legislative Director, National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB); Bill Johnson, Director, Port of Miami; Timothy Kuebler, Senior Vice President, Titan Florida Cement and Aggregate; Herschel Vinyard, Director of Business Operations, BAE Systems Southeast Shipyards; Alan Levine, Vice President and General Manager, Enterprise Holdings; John McReynolds, Senior Vice President of External Affairs, Universal Orlando Resort; Rick Murell, CEO, Tropical Shipping Vic Story, Vice Chair, Citrus Commission; Hal Valeche, Owner, York Street Capital Advisors; Lynda Weatherman, President & CEO, Economic Development Council of Florida's Space Coast; Michele Page, President, Florida-Caribbean Cruise Association; Fredrik Eliasson, Vice President, Emerging Markets, CSX; Henry Rodriguez, Board Member, Enterprise Florida; Kevin Johnson, Vice President of Economic Development, St. Joe Company; Brent Christensen, President and CEO, Gainesville Chamber of Commerce; Mali Gardner, Mayor, Clewiston; Jorge Arrizurieta, President, Arrizurieta Associates; Steven Halverson, President, The Haskell Company; Bob Black, ARINC, Inc.; Hannes Hunschofsky, President, Hoerbinger Corp. of America; John Browning, President, Browning Consulting; Phil Waller, SVP MWH America (Global Water and Wastewater Co.); Jose Hevia, President & CEO, Flagler Co.; Rich Blaser, EVP and CFO, Infinite Energy Inc.; Blake Casper, Chairman and CEO, Caspers Company; Sam Forrest, Vice President, Energy Marketing and Trading, FP&L; John Hitt, President, University of Central Florida; Bernie Machen, President, University of Florida; Dan Rice, President, SunDial Capital Partners; Reinhold Schmieding, Founder and President, Arthrex Inc.; Susan Story, President and CEO, Gulf Power Company; Rasesh Thakker, CEO, Tavistock; Aaron Zahn, CEO, BCR Environmental; Roy Periana, Director, Scripps Energy Laboratories; Karen Diebel, Executive Director, Verizon Business; Doug Callaway, President, Floridians for Better Transportation; Gow Fields, Mayor, City of Lakeland; Joe Waggoner, Executive Director, Tampa/Hillsborough Expressway Authority; Tom Conrecode, VP Government Affairs, Collier Enterprises; Robert Poole, Transportation Director, The Reason Foundation; Janet Watermeier, Executive Director, Bay County Economic Development Alliance; Bob Porteus; Mike Horan, President, Ajax Paving

The Regulatory Reform Transition Team Includes: Chair: Chris Corr, Executive VP, Planning, Design, and Development

AECOM Peter Rummell, Rummell Company, LLC; Stephen Joost, CEO and Partner, Firehouse Subs; T.R. Hainline, Partner, Rogers, Towers; Carlos Alfonso, CEO, Alfonso Architects; Peter Corrigan, President, Florida Family Insurance Company; Ashton Hudson, Rock Creek Capital; Don Brown, Senior Fellow, The Heartland Institute; William Large, Executive Director, Florida Justice Reform Institute; Phillip Walker, Agent, Allstate; Corey Simon, Partner and Vice President of Community Relations, Gabor Agency; Marlin Hutchens, Vice President, Store Operations, Walgreens; Marc Salm, Vice President, Risk Management, Publix; Richard Clark, President, Supreme Janitorial Service; Peter Boulware, Vice President, Legacy Toyota; Chris Corr, Executive Vice President, Planning, Design, and Development, AECOM; Ken Wilson, Vice President, Gate Petroleum; Jerry Seeber, General Manager, Tampa Bay Water; Billy Buzzett, Attorney; Doug Manson, President, Manson Law Group; Barbara Miedema, Vice President, Public Affairs and Communications, Sugar Cane Grovers Cooperative of Florida; Mike Taylor, Vice President, Sales, Honeywell Building Solutions; Ann Shortelle, Ph. D., MACTEC Engineering and Consulting, Inc.; Albert Joerger; Melissa Meeker, President, Hesperides Group; Carlos Beruff, Medallion Homes; Chris Buckley, Board of Directors, Everglades Foundation.
.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/rick-scott-announces-transition-team-aimed-economy

exactly as I suspected...Poole was not part of a transportation advior team, and instead part of the very large economic development team.

I'm not too worried since Doug Callaway and Gow Fields (big HSR proponents) were also on the team.

Tufsu1, Scott's Economic Development Transition Team includes Transportation.

Here is what the National Association of Rail Passengers had to say about Poole's ludicrous report:

QuoteFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (#11-01)
January 7, 2011

Contact: Sean Jean-Gail â€" 202-408-8362 [cell: 202-320-2723]

Governor Rick Scott is currently considering whether to continue the forward looking Orlando to Tampa high-speed rail line.  Unfortunately, the new governor’s deliberations are being hindered by long-time rail opponents, spewing familiar half-truths and outright falsities in hopes of killing the project.

The Reason Foundation this week attacked the Orlando-Tampa corridor in an attempt to drum up fears about Florida taxpayers being saddled with unspecified annual operating costs.  However, Reason’s ambiguously formulated fears are baseless. 

“The seven international private-sector groups bidding to win the right to operate high-speed trains on this corridor have indicated they are willing take the ridership and revenue risk,” said NARP President Ross Capon. “There would be no state subsidies required for operations, the state of Florida will still own the system, and the travelers will have access to a world-class travel choiceâ€"this is the definition of a win-win for the public.  This is the first segment of the State of Florida’s plan to extend the line to Miami, where it can operate at its maximum 220 mph speed potential.”

“This projectâ€"as the nation’s first, true high-speed rail lineâ€"will attract visitors to Florida” Capon added.  “Its ability to be first is one reason Florida won the federal grants.

The report also attempts to raise the specter of massive cost overruns.  However, the federal commitment to the project is now almost $2.4 billion, and federal and state officials have both endorsed the $2.6 billion final-cost estimate.  Florida already owns most of the land that the line would use, and the environmental studies required for construction have been completedâ€"so a 2015 service start-up date is realistic. 

Reason’s report also ignores that this is an opportune time to initiate construction.  Less than a year ago the U.S. DOT revealed that “due to heightened competition among contractors for recovery construction work, Transportation agencies across the nation are receiving project bids substantially lower than engineers’ initial estimates.”  Contractors in Florida are eager to begin work, and would bid at levels favorable to Florida’s taxpayersâ€"creating much-needed jobs in a construction sector that has seen heavy losses due to the recession.

Reason authors Wendell Cox and Robert Poole long have been “hired-guns” to kill passenger rail projects.  They refer to unrelated, past projects to conclude that rail construction “often” sees budget overages of 45%, and ridership projections are “often” optimistic.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution once summed up Cox’s plan to build a grid of double-decked, 10-lane freeways in Atlanta as a “regressive hallucination” by an “untrained transportation expert who makes his living writing propaganda for pro-road causes” (July 6, 2000).

Floridians can only hope that the Scott Administration and the Florida Legislature are able to see through Cox and Poole’s shoddy reasoning, as well. 

###

http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/railroad_passengers_defend_florida_high-speed_rail_against_reason_foundatio/

Quote from: thelakelander on January 07, 2011, 08:51:33 PM
I don't know if its a good thing for Florida to miss out on an opportunity for significant rail investment and manufacturing job creation, while Obama is in office.  When he's out, it will probably be another decade before rail is seriously discussed in this country.  Don't fool yourself, the only alternative that will rise to the table from the group in Tallahassee now is more roads at a more significant cost to taxpayers.  

Quotehttp://www.railjournal.com/this-month/high-speed-offers-huge-rewards-but-poses-many-challenges.html

One wonders if some of the countries planning to build high-speed lines are fully aware of the challenges and risks they face. A serious accident with high loss of life would be a major setback for high-speed rail, as would a "white elephant" project.

There is more to high-speed than simply providing a short journey time between two cities. To be successful, stations need to be well connected to the areas they serve. .

OCKLAWAHA

I agree that stations need to be well connected with the area they intend to serve.

Quote from: thelakelander on January 07, 2011, 08:51:33 PM
I don't know if its a good thing for Florida to miss out on an opportunity for significant rail investment and manufacturing job creation, while Obama is in office.  When he's out, it will probably be another decade before rail is seriously discussed in this country.  Don't fool yourself, the only alternative that will rise to the table from the group in Tallahassee now is more roads at a more significant cost to taxpayers.  

Sooooo true!!

QuoteTime for vision on high-speed rail, not penny-pinching
In Print: Saturday, January 22, 2011

Florida's Republican political leaders are fond of saying they want to run government like a business. They have a strange way of showing it. Gov. Rick Scott, Senate President Mike Haridopolos and House Speaker Dean Cannon seem to be more concerned about the politics of high-speed rail in Florida than the impact the system could have on the state's economy and future. There is nothing wrong with protecting the state against unforeseen financial losses. But this is a time for vision, not for politicians to score points by pinching pennies at the expense of long-term investment.

The federal government has committed $2.4 billion toward the $2.6 billion estimated cost of a high-speed line between Tampa and Orlando.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/time-for-vision-on-high-speed-rail-not-penny-pinching/1146818

QuoteFlorida’s new Republican governor, Rick Scott, is looking that gift train in the mouth and trying to decide whether to accept the promised $2.4 billion from the federal government to begin construction. New Republican governors in Ohio and Wisconsin have already turned down federal money for new rail lines that they saw as boondoggles. And the Republicans who now control the House have said that deficit-reduction, not new spending projects, would be their top priority.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/us/politics/25build.html

Senator Bill Nelson is trying to do an end run around the governor.  STOP and think about this for a second.  A US Senator is doing the governor's job--working with local leaders, including the mayors of Orlando and Tampa, to try to bring jobs and economic development to Florida--because our OWN governor is trying to take it away.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=175288&catid=8

QuoteTransportation Secretary Ray LaHood is expected to meet with Florida's congressional delegation Thursday afternoon in an effort to circumvent Gov. Rick's Scott's rejection of $2 billion in federal funds for a state high-speed rail project.

The meeting, which will take place on Capitol Hill and involve both Republican and Democratic lawmakers, will revolve around a discussion of "whether we can create an entity that can run high-speed rail in Florida and get the state out of the way," an administration official told The Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/17/high-speed-rail-lahood-scott_n_824596.html

Incredibly we are already working to sideline Crook Rick Scott!!

Quote from: stephendare on February 17, 2011, 01:43:48 PM

Quote from: FayeforCure on February 17, 2011, 01:37:20 PM
Senator Bill Nelson is trying to do an end run around the governor.  STOP and think about this for a second.  A US Senator is doing the governor's job--working with local leaders, including the mayors of Orlando and Tampa, to try to bring jobs and economic development to Florida--because our OWN governor is trying to take it away.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=175288&catid=8

QuoteTransportation Secretary Ray LaHood is expected to meet with Florida's congressional delegation Thursday afternoon in an effort to circumvent Gov. Rick's Scott's rejection of $2 billion in federal funds for a state high-speed rail project.

The meeting, which will take place on Capitol Hill and involve both Republican and Democratic lawmakers, will revolve around a discussion of "whether we can create an entity that can run high-speed rail in Florida and get the state out of the way," an administration official told The Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/17/high-speed-rail-lahood-scott_n_824596.html

Incredibly we are already working to sideline Crook Rick Scott!!

Godspeed to Senator Nelson in this effort.

And a shout out to John Mica too, who for once unequivocably sided with Florida HSR against Tea Party ideology:

Quote"This is a huge setback for the state of Florida, our transportation, economic development, and important tourism industry," Mica said in a statement. "I have urged the Governor to reconsider going forward and allow the private sector to assume the risk and any future costs for the project. ... With the federal government assuming 90% of the cost of the project, I am disappointed the private sector will not have an opportunity to even offer innovative proposals to help finance the balance of the costs and to construct and operate this system."

I've heard that LaHood will give the $2.4 billion to other states tomorrow, Friday.

Reports yesterday stated the federal government wants to work with Florida's HSR backers to see if they can salvage the plan before moving the $2.4 billion.  Yesterday's reports also stated that they would not be meeting until tomorrow.

QuoteFlorida lawmakers have been given one week to put together a deal that would keep the federal funds from going to other states.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/february/209079/Senator-Bill-Nelson-looks-to-move-ahead-on-high-speed-rail-without-Governor-Rick-Scott

QuoteA metropolitan planning organization in Tampa and a rail authority in South Florida have volunteered to step forward in place of the state to accept oversight of the bullet-train project and the $2.4 billion from Uncle Sam. Lawyers are researching how to do it," Nelson said

Would the City of Tampa be on the hook for overruns?

No, the private sector, that's been claiming they'll cover any potential overruns and funding gaps for a chance to capture a good share of the future US HSR market, would.

Quote from: FayeforCure on February 17, 2011, 02:00:55 PM

And a shout out to John Mica too, who for once unequivocably sided with Florida HSR against Tea Party ideology:

I'm siding w/ Faye here...although in typical Mica fashion, he didn't meet wioth LaHood (left that for 5 Democrats) but then joined them for a press conference after

btw...see below...looks like the Legislature is very unhappy w/ Scott..Faye posted this elsewhere

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/17/2072075/scott-rebuked-by-26-senators-over.html#

lesson here...it helps to understand the political process before governing!

QuoteNo, the private sector

Lots of risk for the private sector without much upside. Would the Feds instruct SBA to write loans for the contractors? Who would use their own private equity for something that has never been built in Florida? I know I'd use the Feds money or the banks before putting my own capital into it.

Several groups have been interesting in investing their money into Florida's system.  I don't think its the most sound plan or best route but I see no problem in allowing the bidding process to take place.  Unless, there is fear that a group would actually be willing to take a financial risk on it.  If we really want to vet its feasibility, let the private sector bid on it.  If it's not worth the private investment risk, it will end up like the Outer Beltway.

There are 8 consortiums, all of which ionclude big European/Asian rail operators, that have shown interest....here's the reason....the winner of the Tampa-Orlando route gets first right of refusal for Orlando-Miami

Just had to share this hillarious quote if it wasn't so disasterous:

QuoteThe National Association of Railroad Passengers assailed the Reason Foundation report by referring to one of its authors, Wendell Cox, as a "regressive hallucination" by an "untrained transportation expert who makes his living writing propaganda for pro-road causes," including a grid of double-decked, 10-lane freeways in Atlanta.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/feb/24/241052/scotts-rail-decision-highlights-conflicting-assump/news-breaking/

BTW the above article offers the most lucid rebuttal of the hideous propaganda that Scott put out against HSR.

Too bad the majority of the media keeps letting Scott's claim of "the state being on the hook for billions" go unrefuted.

The typical article goes:

QuoteScott says.........

but advocates say.........

It's what they call false equivalency in reporting.

Scott's claim is patently false and should be called out as such: a blatent LIE.

A final warning: beware of cute named front groups like Reason Foundation, the only reason they spew is Pro-OIL propaganda!!!!