Elements of Urbanism: Downtown Orlando
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Metro Jacksonville visits Central Florida's most walkable neighborhood: Downtown Orlando
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jan-elements-of-urbanism-downtown-orlando
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This looks exactly like the Avondale strip. I actually thought Ennis had included it for a compare and contrast between Avondale and Orlando.
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Until I saw this and realized that is nothing like Avondale. Why can't we incorporate dense development and infill into our historic areas like San Marco and Avondale. 5 points does this fairly well, San Marco barely does it, but Avondale falls completely flat in that regard.
The Shoppes of Avondale's ultimate potential is limited due to its surroundings, but places like 5 points, Murray Hill, St Nicholas, Lakewood, San Marco, and Springfield need to develop master plans that feature residential or office over retail, a walkable scale, and pedestrian friendly layouts to maximize their potential as places that we can really call home and be proud of.
I'm actually suprised that despite going through the recent real estate boom, more of that type of mixed-use infill development didn't take place in urban Jax. Little infill projects like that now litter the inner cities of the South's other similar sized metropolitan areas.
Perhaps it's a bias against Disney (or because of), but so much of DT Orlando seems plain old fake. Certainly, it "looks" nice, but in a very meticulous "happiest place on earth" kind of way. Let's not bring that kind of development in.
^^^I agree. Orlando looks so fake and fancy. It looks nice, but doesnt seem like reality. The look of the city only fits in because of disney. If Jacksonville looked like that, it would be weird. LMAO
^That's because it's new. The newer urban developments in cities like Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, Houston, Austin, Dallas, etc. look pretty much the same. Jacksonville could very much use the functional urbanism that developments like those provide.
Due to Jax's age, these same developments in the inner city would create a completely different atmosphere. Instead of complete blocks of new development, there would be a unique mix of old and new with different architectural styles and building materials (assuming existing development isn't demolished).
Fake and Fancy now that's a new one. I'd rather have that than empty store fronts, empty lots, grass parking lots and no real plans to accomplish anything before the world ends. Very hard to get anything accomplished here when their so busy arguing over parking spaces.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 05, 2011, 09:14:17 AM
Until I saw this and realized that is nothing like Avondale. Why can't we incorporate dense development and infill into our historic areas like San Marco and Avondale. 5 points does this fairly well, San Marco barely does it, but Avondale falls completely flat in that regard.
The Shoppes of Avondale's ultimate potential is limited due to its surroundings, but places like 5 points, Murray Hill, St Nicholas, Lakewood, San Marco, and Springfield need to develop master plans that feature residential or office over retail, a walkable scale, and pedestrian friendly layouts to maximize their potential as places that we can really call home and be proud of.
Hopefully, you will be seeing it soon in San Marco. SMPS and COJ P&DD are in the midst of a smart growth plan, San Marco by Design, for the northern portions of San Marco. We will provide updates of our progress and welcome all participants. Some of the key elements so far have been improving walkability, bike routes, river access, allowing more density/height in defined areas and Transit Oriented Development that would result from an extension of the Skyway. These are not 'pie-in-the-sky' plans. With the support of the local business owners, residents and city leaders, this will become reality.
Stay tuned...
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on January 05, 2011, 10:33:01 AM
Fake and Fancy now that's a new one. I'd rather have that than empty store fronts, empty lots, grass parking lots and no real plans to accomplish anything before the world ends. Very hard to get anything accomplished here when their so busy arguing over parking spaces.
Gotta agree with you there. Go ahead and stick some Disney-esque businesses downtown... instead of empty and abandoned office buildings. (Just don't tear down anything to build it!!!)
My wife and I go to Orlando all the time and have recently "discovered" downtown. Generally we stick to I-Drive and the Universal/Disney areas but downtown has a lot of interesting areas to explore. (Though we seldom see more than a few people roaming the streets on Saturday afternoons.)
Thanks for mentioning Mad Cow. We've been in Downtown for 10 years and our current location since 2003. In the upcoming year, we're moving to 54 W. Church Street and will be expanding both of our theatres as well as lobby and backstage areas.
Right now, we produce 10 shows, a 3-week long cabaret festival, and other special events in our home downtown, bringing over 21,000 people to the urban core annually, driving over one million dollars in incremental income for local businesses.
There is more information on the move here: http://orlandotheater.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/city-agreement-today-will-help-mad-cow-move-to-new-home/ (http://orlandotheater.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/city-agreement-today-will-help-mad-cow-move-to-new-home/)
Does anyone know why they moved the steam engine? It used to be much closer to Church St.
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I actually wouldn't call DT Orlando "fake & fancy", To me it looks like a DT of a typical small/mid sized city; Kinda "youngish" though. IMO Orlando's DT looks more "small towny" than the city actually is, a growing metropolis. Now O-Town's hotel suburban areas "fake & fancy" would definitely fit the criteria. Far as I see in the future, DT Orlando will continue to get vastly overshadowed by the theme parks there. Face it, the Amway Center is the main reason to go there. MJers complain about Jax's highways, and State St etc, try I-4; DT Orlando probably wouldn't even be worthy enough to be considered a whistle stop in the minds of millions of out of towners; The main big stops on their minds, are Sea World, Universal, WDW, Wet & Wild etc.
The historic core of DT Orlando is pretty small. This is due to the fact that Orlando didn't really begin to grow until after Disney opened in 1971. By that time, people were already building on the outskirts of town. Much of that land has been annexed by Orlando since then.
Orlando 1950 Population: 52,367
Tampa 1950 Population: 124,681
Jacksonville 1950 Population: 204,275
Miami 1950 Population: 249,276
It's amazing how much Orlando is ahead of the curve when it comes to getting infill projects and things like light rail. They blow Jacksonville and my city of Tampa out of the water. Very frustrating that we can't get that in our cities.
I really like Lake Eola/Thornton Park area and I would like to see the same for Riverside, San Marco, and Springfield (and Avondale). It's ok to have higher density and modern buildings (someone please tell RAP and SPAR that!). I don't, however, like downtown Orlando, and I don't see much appeal there. I won't hold my breath for anything spectacular to happen in DT. I think that if *they* can't even find tourism money to fund improvements to the Orange Bowl and they are struggling with the Dr. Philips PAC, we might actually get more done here in Jax.
Quote from: simms3 on January 06, 2011, 12:38:48 PM
I think that if *they* can't even find tourism money to fund improvements to the Orange Bowl
You meant Citrus Bowl. Those bowls are pretty confusing like they play the "TicketCity Bowl" in the actual "Cotton Bowl" stadium, and the "Cotton Bowl game" is played in Cowboys Stadium. LOL. The college bowl system sucks!! Ratings are way down, and nobody cares (besides the only one that matters Oregon vs. Auburn of course), as proof with the 1/2 empty stadiums all over the U.S. We need a playoff system! I'm sorry about my haphazard sports rant. LOL
Quote from: simms3 on January 06, 2011, 12:38:48 PM
I really like Lake Eola/Thornton Park area and I would like to see the same for Riverside, San Marco, and Springfield (and Avondale). It's ok to have higher density and modern buildings (someone please tell RAP and SPAR that!).
I agree with you simms3. I love historic buildings and believe in their preservation. However, I don't see the need to make all of the new buildings look like the old buildings. I believe it stifles innovation and creativity.
Thankfully, in San Marco, we don't have architectural restrictions and are working to promote higher density in appropriate areas.
Quote from: I-10east on January 06, 2011, 04:18:08 AM
DT Orlando probably wouldn't even be worthy enough to be considered a whistle stop in the minds of millions of out of towners; The main big stops on their minds, are Sea World, Universal, WDW, Wet & Wild etc.
And what, pray tell, would millions of out-of-towners consider a worthy stop in Duval County?
Whoops! Yea Citrus Bowl...just watched the Orange Bowl to disappointment the other night :(
Quote from: finehoe on January 06, 2011, 04:34:44 PM
And what, pray tell, would millions of out-of-towners consider a worthy stop in Duval County?
I didn't say that did I? I was talking about DT Orlando. Another classic example of MJ wanting to sugarcoat every city outside of Jax, just for the sake of doing it.
Quote from: I-10east on January 06, 2011, 06:04:56 PM
Quote from: finehoe on January 06, 2011, 04:34:44 PM
And what, pray tell, would millions of out-of-towners consider a worthy stop in Duval County?
I didn't say that did I? I was talking about DT Orlando. Another classic example of MJ wanting to sugarcoat every city outside of Jax, just for the sake of doing it.
Really, there were posters on here who bashed Orlando saying it was fake and fancy. So how is MJ sugarcoating Orlando. You seem to be very sensitive about any comparison that may show Jax in some what of a negative way. If you re tired of that write our DT leaders.
The thread is about DT Orlando. That's what I was talking about. You're right, all of MJ don't sugarcoat every other city outside of Jax, just the majority of MJ. Hell, If you're gonna bash Jax, atleast be funny, and thought provoking with it; Why snidely say something that everybody knows anyway? No Jax don't have atleast a crappy aquarium, or millions of out of towners; So there that's clear.
Say no to drugs!
I already do. I don't use any recreational drugs of any kind. I occasionally drink, and do not smoke.
Just having a bit a fun, you probably should have a drink though might loosen you up a bit.
Interesting post. Downtown Orlando has always been a great, vibrant enclave in Orlando. It has only gotten better with recent development. It's increasingly pedestrian oriented -- mainly locals, as has always been the case -- and of course there is nothing fancy or fake about it.
Orlando is a Tourist town.. Period. If all the theme shut down today, it would be empty. Nothing against Orlando. I visit there several times a year to get a way. But lets be real here. Tourist is the only thing that keeps this city alive. And with that being said, Orlando gets the golden ticket most times. With all those tourist plus the locals, Orlando is practically a market for just about any and everything.
I think Orlando's downtown and core neighborhoods around Lake Eola are void of the tourist frenzy and instead rely on local support.
That being said, without Disney Orlando would probably be even smaller than Jacksonville today.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 25, 2011, 10:44:18 PM
Orlando is a Tourist town.. Period. If all the theme shut down today, it would be empty. Nothing against Orlando. I visit there several times a year to get a way. But lets be real here. Tourist is the only thing that keeps this city alive. And with that being said, Orlando gets the golden ticket most times. With all those tourist plus the locals, Orlando is practically a market for just about any and everything.
Quote from: simms3 on July 25, 2011, 10:53:21 PM
I think Orlando's downtown and core neighborhoods around Lake Eola are void of the tourist frenzy and instead rely on local support.
That being said, without Disney Orlando would probably be even smaller than Jacksonville today.
I agree. Orlando would probably still be a sleepy town if Disney didn't move in.
Orlando would be much smaller if it wasn't for Disney and the other theme parks. But that's besides the point, because all of Florida would be considerably different if we didn't have one of the world's largest tourist destinations blow up in the middle of our state over the last 40 or 50 years
This past weekend I made what was probably my first substantial stay in downtown Orlando since I left Central Florida in 2001. It's staggering what they've been able to achieve in terms of downtown redevelopment just since that time.
When I was living in Orlando, downtown was still in the midst of recovery. It has really taken off and become a vibrant urban core during all times of the day. Obviously the growth and money the tourist attractions bring to the area have contributed to the ability to turn their downtown around. But there's a lot we could take away from their example.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on July 25, 2011, 10:44:18 PM
Orlando is a Tourist town.. Period. If all the theme shut down today, it would be empty. Nothing against Orlando. I visit there several times a year to get a way. But lets be real here. Tourist is the only thing that keeps this city alive. And with that being said, Orlando gets the golden ticket most times. With all those tourist plus the locals, Orlando is practically a market for just about any and everything.
The space and citrus industries were alive and well in Orlando long before tourism was it's major industry. I don't think anyone is denying what tourism has brought to Orlando (and what Orlando's tourism has brought to the rest of the state) nor do I think it should be viewed as such a negative, derogatory thing.
If anything, it has been a challenge to get Orlando's 50 million+ tourists downtown since Church Street Station fell to Pleasure Island and CityWalk. With the recent groundbreaking of the Dr Phillips Performing Arts Center (with Disney's generous endorsement), and downtown Orlando's continued and increasing popularity amongst the local crowd, this could be changing.
There is a common misperception that Orlando is a one trick pony because tourists (worldwide and state-wide, alike) visit the attractions without ever stepping into the actual city of Orlando, or the other areas of the metro that offer a different type of appeal, some interesting urbanity and culture.
Orlando isn't what you think it is
...the notion that Orlando could become shorthand for tragedy — as Sandy Hook and Columbine have — is hard to grasp for a place that has persevered through generations of almost gothic calamities, from land booms and busts to hurricanes and freezes that destroyed citrus empires.
They'd rather have been talking about the new soccer stadium going up at the edge of downtown, its great steel beams pushing into the sky, curving like the frame of some ancient caravel.
Or the plans for a 68-acre urban center complex called a Creative Village, a combination university campus/high-tech business center.
Or the dazzling Medical City that has surged with remarkable speed out of 7,000 acres of scrub pines and cattle-grazing lands, with biotech labs, hospitals and meticulously manicured housing developments for tens of thousands of people.
Orlando's tourist-dependent economy suffered after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and then again during the national recession in the late 2000s. Even as tourism has rebounded (Orlando logged more than 60 million visitors in 2015, a U.S. record, according to one estimate), the area craved an economy less subject to the vagaries of tourism's cycles.
So it has enthusiastically embraced flotillas of young entrepreneurs who clump in hip downtown spaces, fiddling with digital start-up plans, developing software and pulling in tens of millions of dollars in seed money.
Several hundred software developers and digital entrepreneurs have occupied a once-vacant downtown shopping mall called the Church Street Exchange building, fashioned in the style of an 1800s train station, with pressed tin ceilings and grand wrought-iron staircases. It used to be the headquarters of Lou Pearlman, the notorious manager of boy bands such as 'N Sync and the Backstreet Boys, before he was imprisoned for running a Ponzi scheme.
Orlando is becoming one of the most Puerto Rican places on Earth. Spurred by the island's deepening economic crisis, Florida's Puerto Rican population has doubled since 2000, topping 1 million, with one-third of those living in the Orlando area. The state has also surpassed New York as the most common destination for Puerto Ricans, with nearly three times as many Puerto Ricans moving to Florida as moving to New York, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. Overall, Orlando is one of the fastest-growing metro areas in the country, with a population that now tops 2.3 million.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/orlando-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/2016/06/16/628d55fa-33d6-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html
Quote from: DemocraticNole on January 06, 2011, 09:48:55 AM
It's amazing how much Orlando is ahead of the curve when it comes to getting infill projects and things like light rail. They blow Jacksonville and my city of Tampa out of the water. Very frustrating that we can't get that in our cities.
Orlando has been talking about Light-Rail every bit as long as Jacksonville and they have absolutely NOTHING to show for it. How does this blow Tampa (which actually has a physical Light-Rail starter in place) or Jacksonville 'out of the water?'
There is a plan (about as old as the Bible) to connect I-Drive and the airport with Light-Rail, but no plan to connect downtown Orlando with the airport or I-Drive. They are working on extending SUNRAIL to the Airport from downtown, as well as Tavares/Eustis at some future date, which would give roughly hourly service during rush hours.
If Jacksonville converts the Skyway to Rapid-Streetcar we will leap ahead of them.
^I think DemocraticNole is referring to the Sunrail commuter rail system. I doubt extending Sunrail to Eustis happens anytime soon. They need to focus on enhancing Sunrail's frequency. Right now, the Skyway generates as much ridership as that system.