Metro Jacksonville

After being informed that their Southbank building will be demolished, the Jacksonville Maritime Museum has relocated to the Jacksonville Landing.

Quoteby Max Marbut
Staff Writer

The Jacksonville Maritime Museum has returned to its roots as far as location is concerned.

Established by a group of volunteers committed to collecting, maintaining and exhibiting the artifacts from the city’s rich shipping and seagoing military history, the institution’s first home was at the Landing.

Paul Ghiotto, the museum’s curator since 2007, said the museum was in a 1,700-square-foot space that was basically donated by The Rouse Company, the original developer of the property. That arrangement created some challenges for the new visitor destination.

“Every time someone wanted to lease our space, we had to move,” said Ghiotto. “After the museum had to move six or seven times, the City offered the use of that building at the south end of the Main Street Bridge.”

That location offered about 1,800 square feet of space for exhibits, a maritime library, a gift ship and an office.

Ghiotto said the search for the museum’s next location began when City planners informed the board of directors that the museum’s building at the foot of the bridge will be demolished as part of the Southbank Riverwalk renovation project.

The new space, the former Discount Pro Wear store, is about 9,000 square feet, including space for displays, a meeting room, a small theater, an office and even a little storage.

Ghiotto said moving back to the Landing and into the more expansive space will allow the museum, for the first time, to exhibit everything in its collection.

“This will keep us going. The alternative was to put everything in storage,” he said.

Having more space will also mean the museum can exhibit pieces of the collection that have been on loan for years, including several ship models currently at Mayport Naval Station and Jacksonville University.

Full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2010-12-27

Great I can't wait to check it out. They will probably get more visitors at the Landing.

They should get alot more visitors at the Landing...

it also fits well with the Navy/Naval store at the Landing

What is going to happen to the old site?

COJ plans to demolish it as a part of the southbank riverwalk renovations.

What does this mean for a  possible navel ship docking at the museum?

Does anyone have a proposed design for the Southbank Riverwalk redo?

I just love that there's a really fitting typo in that article. Instead of "gift shop" they wrote "gift ship."  ;D

The riverwalk renovations won't have much, if any, impact on the possible naval ship site.  Also, I don't believe a design for the Southbank Riverwalk has been released to the public at this point.

I would have hoped COJ would have worked with the museum about incorporating its needs into the southbank redesign, but I suppose that was expecting way too much of our local government. Who would just demolish a museum without working to incorporate them back into the fabric?

Quote from: Seraphs on December 28, 2010, 09:41:47 PM
What does this mean for a  possible navel ship docking at the museum?.....

A museum that was in 1800sf suddenly blossoms into one with a ship? Not likely. A small museum that moved to 9,000sf of higher priced retail space at The Landing will likely scratch for rent money much less a ship maintenance budget.  I doubt too that the landing would want to loose view or loose the boat docking that a ship would do. Plus the dolphins for ships are on the east side of the Mainstreet bridge.

Quote from: Overstreet on December 30, 2010, 09:35:06 AM

Quote from: Seraphs on December 28, 2010, 09:41:47 PM
What does this mean for a  possible navel ship docking at the museum?.....

A museum that was in 1800sf suddenly blossoms into one with a ship? Not likely. A small museum that moved to 9,000sf of higher priced retail space at The Landing will likely scratch for rent money much less a ship maintenance budget.  I doubt too that the landing would want to loose view or loose the boat docking that a ship would do. Plus the dolphins for ships are on the east side of the Mainstreet bridge.

+1

I think this is probably the death of the Charles F Adams proposal. The group of guys locally that would've been interested in that are the same ones runnng the museum, and they've got their hands full now.

It would have been nice to have the maritime museum and MOSH better integrated with the revamped Friendship Fountain space.  They would be great anchors for such a space.  Can anyone explain why it seems like we're like the only major city in the U.S. that strays away from integrating restaurants, cafes and attractions with urban public spaces?  It seems like the Landing experience has made COJ shell shocked.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/594988720_uPcgq-M.jpg)
The Riverwalks and other downtown public spaces would be a lot more vibrant with a mix of uses designed and encouraged to be seamlessly integrated with them.

I don't think this has anything to do with the Charles F. Adams ship.  It was never planned to be docked at the old maritime museum site.  Plus, a ship that size could house the entire maritime museum and more if desired.  Anyway, I don't see the Landing as a long term location for the museum.  My guess is as soon as Sleiman finds someone willing to pay higher rent for that space, they are out.

Speaking of the MOSH, WHY is it so unattractive? Even the MOCA is more attractive. The MOSH is overdue for an external face life. Maybe some life dinosaurs outside? Something outside of the box. The last time I been to the MOSH is when I was elementary school and I am 29 now, and that building has not change AT ALL. I wish it really looked like a Musuem. But oh well, people in hell want ice water. LOL

^At the very least, it needs a whole new entrance with a cafe or something that opens up into park and fountain.

MOSH should have been located in any of the bajillion historic vacant buildings downtown that COJ knocked down for no reason, and not on the southbank to begin with. That was a mistake. At least they got it right with MOCA.

Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 30, 2010, 09:45:07 AM
Speaking of the MOSH, WHY is it so unattractive? Even the MOCA is more attractive. The MOSH is overdue for an external face life. Maybe some life dinosaurs outside? Something outside of the box. The last time I been to the MOSH is when I was elementary school and I am 29 now, and that building has not change AT ALL. I wish it really looked like a Musuem. But oh well, people in hell want ice water. LOL

I'm with you on MOSH and how ugly it is. I've been there within the past couple years -- my wife's younger sister visits on occasion and we used to take her over there -- but the last time we were in there was probably the last time, period. Especially having traveled to places like Washington DC, Chicago, San Francisco, Tampa, Orlando, NYC (should I keep going?).... MOSH is kind of an embarrassment. It's a shame Jacksonville doesn't have a big, beautiful science and history museum. (The Planetarium is fantastic, though.)

However, I don't think the people of Jacksonville would support a new museum. I doubt MOSH has the money to put into a new building or even a building facelift... I mean, when was the last time they updated their exhibits? Everytime we would visit, half of the stuff in the JEA exhibit was broken. I think the majority of Jacksonville citizens send their kids there on field trips and that's it. The place is practically a ghost town on non-school days. I don't think exposing their children to educational materials is real high on the priorities list for many Jacksonville residents.

I don't think the Maritime Museum will be in the Landing for long, not if another tenant comes along... but on the other hand, it is the Landing, and it ain't like potential tenants are falling over themselves in a race for rental space...

Can you guys imagine how cool MOSH would've been in something like the old Masonic Lodge mid-rise off main (demolished to make a parking lot) or the old Rhodes Furniture building (demolished for current employee parking / unloading area in back of new main library)? We keep tearing dense uses down to make parking lots and building new buildings to house everything, we are not far off from becoming one giant strip mall.

It's a shame that MOSH doesn't do any outreach or advertising with the gift shop.  It's pretty nice and well stocked.

Does the FL Theatre have a gift shop?  I'm a contributor to the FL Theatre and sadly I don't know the answer to this.

Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2010, 09:50:58 AM
^At the very least, it needs a whole new entrance with a cafe or something that opens up into park and fountain.

That's for sure.  I really like Currents of Time and like going to MOSH for that reason (say what you will about the broken science exhibits, but I think at least Currents is quite well done), but at first brush it's difficult even to spot where the main entrance is supposed to be.

Quote from: stephendare on December 30, 2010, 10:00:15 AM

Quote from: Bativac on December 30, 2010, 09:54:43 AM

Quote from: duvaldude08 on December 30, 2010, 09:45:07 AM
Speaking of the MOSH, WHY is it so unattractive? Even the MOCA is more attractive. The MOSH is overdue for an external face life. Maybe some life dinosaurs outside? Something outside of the box. The last time I been to the MOSH is when I was elementary school and I am 29 now, and that building has not change AT ALL. I wish it really looked like a Musuem. But oh well, people in hell want ice water. LOL

I'm with you on MOSH and how ugly it is. I've been there within the past couple years -- my wife's younger sister visits on occasion and we used to take her over there -- but the last time we were in there was probably the last time, period. Especially having traveled to places like Washington DC, Chicago, San Francisco, Tampa, Orlando, NYC (should I keep going?).... MOSH is kind of an embarrassment. It's a shame Jacksonville doesn't have a big, beautiful science and history museum. (The Planetarium is fantastic, though.)

However, I don't think the people of Jacksonville would support a new museum. I doubt MOSH has the money to put into a new building or even a building facelift... I mean, when was the last time they updated their exhibits? Everytime we would visit, half of the stuff in the JEA exhibit was broken. I think the majority of Jacksonville citizens send their kids there on field trips and that's it. The place is practically a ghost town on non-school days.

But thats also because of the business interface model that the non profits have in this town.  Its outdated and frankly presumptuous.  There are no concessions at the Mosh worth speaking of, and the gift shop does absolutely no outreach or advertising.  Two excellent sources of revenue are completely ignored and the entire cost of maintaining the space falls onto contributions instead.  It is exactly the same at the Florida Theatre.

IMHO, the city needs at least one more museum, and thats a Southern Music Museum and performance venue.

You mean the "shakedown" business model? Let's call a spade a spade, shall we, lol...

LOL,, Ock,,LMAO,,,

Come on OCK its not that crucial yet. LOL

Quote from: stephendare on December 30, 2010, 10:17:51 AM

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 30, 2010, 10:14:51 AM
It's a shame that MOSH doesn't do any outreach or advertising with the gift shop.  It's pretty nice and well stocked.

Does the FL Theatre have a gift shop?  I'm a contributor to the FL Theatre and sadly I don't know the answer to this.

No, Wacca, they do not.  Nor do they have anything resembling concessions.  If youve been lately, you can basically only get refreshments there for about 30 minutes per show, on the two or three nights that they are open.  And that is, if you like boxed wine served in plastic cups.

Same with the Ritz Theatre and Museum.  

Concessions are 70 percent of the revenue at private theatres, but in the case of the non profits, these sales account for less than 5%

I agree with you about the concessions at the Florida Theater. That is a beautiful facility and they put on fantastic performances. It'd be nice to be able to buy something besides a small cup of wine. How much of that is unwillingness on someone's part to not appear to be pandering to the lowest common denominator? "A COCA COLA?? How VULGAR!" And they really should have a gift shop, selling at the very least, postcards and books about the history of Jacksonville.

As far as MOSH, didn't they once have a cafe? That was never advertised, and that you'd only know about if you actually entered the museum...

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 30, 2010, 09:53:08 AM
MOSH should have been located in any of the bajillion historic vacant buildings downtown that COJ knocked down for no reason, and not on the southbank to begin with. That was a mistake. At least they got it right with MOCA.

Now that you mention it, I visited a museum in downtown St. Louis that had done just this, this past summer.

It was in an old shoe factory:

QuoteCity Museum is a museum, consisting largely of re-purposed architectural and industrial objects, housed in the former International Shoe building in the Washington Avenue Loft District of St. Louis, Missouri.

Popular among residents and tourists, the museum bills itself as an "eclectic mixture of children's playground, funhouse, surrealistic pavilion, and architectural marvel." Visitors are encouraged to feel, touch, climb on, and play in the various exhibits. The museum attracted over 300,000 visitors in 1999 and over 600,000 in 2007. It has been named one of the "great public spaces" by the Project for Public Spaces, and has won other local and international awards as a must-see destination.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968211348_GGGUX-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968214259_VJAYm-M.jpg)
A scene from the old days.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968210927_npHZV-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968211197_8jNbr-M.jpg)
An outdoor playground at the museum

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968211098_HvyJk-M.jpg)
Inside, each floor has a different theme.  On this particular level, there was a circus and miniature railroad.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/968211245_DfwcB-M.jpg)
This floor had an architectural ornament exhibit of demolished Louis Sullivan designed buildings.

QuoteCity Museum was founded by artist Bob Cassilly, who remains the museum's artistic director, and his then-wife Gail Cassilly. The museum's building was once a shoe factory and warehouse but was mostly vacant when the Cassillys bought it in 1993. Construction began in January 1995 and the building opened to the public on October 25, 1997. The museum has since expanded, adding new exhibits such as MonstroCity in 2002, Enchanted Caves and Shoe Shaft in 2003, and World Aquarium in 2004. A circus ring on the third floor offers daily live acts. The City Museum also houses The Shoelace Factory, whose antique braiding machines makes colorful shoelaces for sale.

The building's fifth floor houses apartments, dubbed the Lofts at City Museum, which range in size from 1,300 to more than 2,800 square feet.

The museum has been visited by various celebrities, including Miley Cyrus in 2007 and the Jonas Brothers. The Museum has hosted concerts.

Its amazing what a little creativity will do when existing buildings are allowed to be put back into use.

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 30, 2010, 10:16:52 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2010, 09:50:58 AM
^At the very least, it needs a whole new entrance with a cafe or something that opens up into park and fountain.

That's for sure.  I really like Currents of Time and like going to MOSH for that reason (say what you will about the broken science exhibits, but I think at least Currents is quite well done), but at first brush it's difficult even to spot where the main entrance is supposed to be.

I like that exhibit as well.  I believe if we really focused on our rich local history, it could be a major exhibit anchoring a completely separate museum. Sort of like a Jax version of the Tampa Bay History Center:

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Tampa-Dec-2010/P1430626/1133026347_QPbjD-M.jpg)

(http://www.tampabayhistorycenter.org/uploads/visit_6_3940212518.jpg)

(http://visitsouth.com/images/uploads/TampaBayHistoryCtr.jpg)

(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/ba/9a/5e/tampa-bay-history-center.jpg)

Maybe something like that will be an eventual possibility for St. Luke's/Florida Casket for the Historical Society.  It frustrates me that cities with less consequential histories than Jacksonville sometimes have elaborate separate history museums, whereas Jacksonville makes do with only a fraction of MOSH, though a well-done fraction.

MOSH in the old Rhodes building...what a nice thought.  Or maybe the Jones Bros. building on Hogan, or the El Modelo...

Quote from: thelakelander on December 30, 2010, 09:42:27 AM
My guess is as soon as Sleiman finds someone willing to pay higher rent for that space, they are out.

Well, seeing how the place is half-empty, that probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 30, 2010, 02:59:03 PM
MOSH in the old Rhodes building...what a nice thought.  Or maybe the Jones Bros. building on Hogan, or the El Modelo...

Thats what should have happened.

The sad thing is that our local leaders completely failed to see the irony in tearing down the buildings that actually represent our local history while building a brand new cookie-cutter-esque history museum. Seriously?

I mean it would be kind of funny if it weren't so sad. :-(

Speaking of the El Modelo, evidently we have an Ybor City style historic relationship with cigar manufacturing as well. In 1895, cigar rolling was Jax's second largest industry.  Too bad we don't promote it or the silent film industry in the manner that we should.

Still is a decent sized industry here, with swisher still in town. Tampa's cigar industry is dead, ours is alive and well!

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 30, 2010, 03:33:36 PM

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 30, 2010, 02:59:03 PM
MOSH in the old Rhodes building...what a nice thought.  Or maybe the Jones Bros. building on Hogan, or the El Modelo...

Thats what should have happened.

The sad thing is that our local leaders completely failed to see the irony in tearing down the buildings that actually represent our local history while building a brand new cookie-cutter-esque history museum. Seriously?

I mean it would be kind of funny if it weren't so sad. :-(

Was this really contemporaneous, since the Rhodes was torn down in the Delaney years and MOSH was built in the 60s?  I know it was the Children's Museum and not MOSH then, though, so I guess the historical element of the museum wasn't there until years later.

It still kind of amazes me that the Rhodes went down during the Delaney era since he seemed to have the right idea with regard to both downtown and preservationism.

Thinking back to when the MOSH was built, and thinking peripherally about the history museum in downtown Orlando, how nice it would have been to put a city history museum in the old Klutho city hall, torn down for the Haydon Burns library.  It's heartbreaking to think of not only the loss of that building but its lunettes depicting the fire and restoration.

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 30, 2010, 04:39:01 PM

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 30, 2010, 03:33:36 PM

Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on December 30, 2010, 02:59:03 PM
MOSH in the old Rhodes building...what a nice thought.  Or maybe the Jones Bros. building on Hogan, or the El Modelo...

Thats what should have happened.

The sad thing is that our local leaders completely failed to see the irony in tearing down the buildings that actually represent our local history while building a brand new cookie-cutter-esque history museum. Seriously?

I mean it would be kind of funny if it weren't so sad. :-(

Was this really contemporaneous, since the Rhodes was torn down in the Delaney years and MOSH was built in the 60s?  I know it was the Children's Museum and not MOSH then, though, so I guess the historical element of the museum wasn't there until years later.

It still kind of amazes me that the Rhodes went down during the Delaney era since he seemed to have the right idea with regard to both downtown and preservationism.

Delaney gave lip service to historic preservation, yet the demolitions downtown reached a crescendo on his watch.

Thinking back, the Southern Bell building on Adams Street was a perfectly fine structure that was torn down for a courthouse whose footprint would have never overlapped.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/458685422_SXMhE-600x10000.jpg)
Southern Bell (left) and George Washington Hotel (right) buildings.  Bounded by Adams, Julia, Monroe and Pearl, this block is not being used in the construction of the courthouse.

Back in the day, the Children's Museum was on Riverside Avenue.  The museum outgrew its location inside an old house and moved to the Southbank, right?  I can kind of understand how the museum that we now know as MOSH moved to its current location.  Was the Southbank considered blighted back then?  And, if so, wouldn't the prospect of cheap land have been attractive.  Furthermore, was there much of a sentiment toward locating any museum within the traditional boundaries of the Northbank side of downtown?  The Jacksonville Art Museum was across the river.  The Cummer Art Gallery is down the road on Riverside Avenue.  Did the Children's Museum folks even think of the Northbank as an option?  Just wondering.

P.S. - It is a dirty shame that the George Washington Hotel was razed and was replaced by nothing.

Quote from: Jaxson on December 30, 2010, 05:43:07 PM
Was the Southbank considered blighted back then? 

The powers that be consider anything more than ten years old to be "blighted". :D

Quote from: Jaxson on December 30, 2010, 05:43:07 PM
P.S. - It is a dirty shame that the George Washington Hotel was razed and was replaced by nothing.

The George Washington was torn down specifically for a surface parking lot shortly after closing.  Most of the buildings in that section of downtown were torn down for the exact same thing, redevelopment plans be damned.  When my stomach can take it, I'm going to scan every single news clipping of what was torn down in that area for surface parking and upload it to MJ.  The foundations people park on today had some pretty impressive and large multiple level structures on them.  As for the MOSH site, the entire Northbank was probably looked at as being blighted (old) and congested during that dark era (mid 20th century) of urbanism.

Looks like the demolition talked about here in 2010 is just now beginning?  Too bad the city doesn't move that slow to demolish historical homes in Springfield