Elements of Urbanism: Downtown Tampa
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1133021895_DjsFF-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville explores a downtown that has made significant redevelopment strides since our last visit in 2008: Downtown Tampa.
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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-dec-elements-of-urbanism-downtown-tampa
Curtis Hixon Waterfront Park is a nice new feature, but it remains underutilized because of the lack of residents downtown and the fact that people have to basically pay to park to use the facility. It's interesting you point out Tampa's mob history. Curtis Hixon was one of the folks who was on the mafia dole, so to see his name on a prominent downtown feature is appropriate.
I really think of all the current downtown projects, the success of Encore is most important to the redevelopment of downtown. That will put a lot more residents downtown with a mix of incomes and cultures. If it is successful, it should spur growth around the area. I am also hopeful that Rick Scott does not cancel the Florida High Speed Rail. Getting that here would be a good start in developing a transit network that should include light rail one day, even though the idiots here just voted down the one-cent sales tax.
What the Rays do with their stadium situation will also be interesting to watch. It is clear they want out of the Trop and downtown Tampa would be the best location for them to build a new stadium, especially if the FLHSR does in fact get built.
Tampa is redeveloping very nicely. Hopefully everything works out.
Duvaldude man use your spell check :). Tampa is a place I like to visit often. I've won a few bucks at the casino and I have friends there as well. Even though their highway system is horrible I think they are moving further ahead with their DT than we are. I think we have more potential if we just implement and follow our DT masterplan.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 23, 2010, 11:08:47 AM
Duvaldude man use your spell check :). Tampa is a place I like to visit often. I've won a few bucks at the casino and I have friends there as well. Even though their highway system is horrible I think they are moving further ahead with their DT than we are. I think we have more potential if we just implement and follow our DT masterplan.
hey dont judge me ;D
I agree that our DT has more potential. Man if leadership could ever follow through with anything, (As tampa is doing now) our DT would really be banging.
as Stephen would say "meh" I am not really impressed with Tampa's downtown.
No nothing to write home about, but slight edge to Tampa IMO.
I'm struck by how similar Tampa and Jacksonville look. As someone pointed out previously, growth in both cities seems to have taken place roughly at the same time. Many of the above photos could've been taken here. All the more reason to bemoan how our lack of leadership has cursed Jacksonville to always be the also-ran.
Quote from: finehoe on December 23, 2010, 12:12:29 PM
I'm struck by how similar Tampa and Jacksonville look. As someone pointed out previously, growth in both cities seems to have taken place roughly at the same time. Many of the above photos could've been taken here. All the more reason to bemoan how our lack of leadership has cursed Jacksonville to always be the also-ran.
There is a very shocking similarity. Tampa looks like a Jacksonville that is developing. Only difference were are MUCH larger than Tampa. (land wise and city population, metro they have us beat). But our downtown look almost indentical. Some new building and upgrades, but not much activity going on.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 23, 2010, 12:07:21 PM
No nothing to write home about, but slight edge to Tampa IMO.
I agree. There DT is a more of an edge than ours. Not much, but its a little more attractive IMO
Tampa has made some big strides since I moved from there to Jax. in 2006....much of that credit goes to Pam Iorio, who used her second term as Mayor to make things happen (the same can't be said of her first term).
Unfortunately for Tampa, they are about to shift into neutral again...the three leading candidates to replace Iorio aren't exactly young visionaries...in fact Dick Greco (the likely frontrunner) has already served 4 terms of Mayor, with his first term in the 1960s!
The largest difference I noticed between the two DTs was that Tampa's has a number of small businesses, restaurants and retailers that are now also open on the weekends and at night. In DT Jax, there's not much open on a consistent basis once you leave the hotel lobbies or the Landing.
For example, on Saturday morning I wanted to get some breakfast. Along Tampa Street (similar in character to our Bay or Forsyth Streets) there were several restaurants adjacent to each other that were open. I spend most of my time in DT Jax and I can't tell you three places in the entire Northbank that aren't located in the Landing or in hotels that offer dine in breakfast on Saturdays and Sundays.
In the past two or three of years, they've been able to renovate a couple of urban parks, expand their riverwalk, construct three major museums and get several affordable housing projects off the ground. I wonder where the money came from to pull all of this stuff off? If you listen to news around here, we can't afford to do much and we're a consolidated city.
^^^Agreed. I remember when I stayed at the Hyatt downtown in Tampa last summer and...... I wasnt too impress. After getting lost when I was drunk (yes I was leaving Ybor City) I rode just about the whole city within 45 minutes before I located downtown again. LOL From my drunken tour, the city its self isnt much. But they are ahead of us in redevelopment for sure.
Obviously way behind Jacksonville, I used 31 photos, those I considered typical sidewalk scenes, allowed the river walk in, and counted 70 people in the scene. That's only 2.25 people per scene or roughly per block. On Monday, Stephendare and I did a lunch hour count in downtown Jacksonville and got about 6 per block! Hey we're on a roll!
OCKLAWAHA
I think that Jacksonville should be deconsolated, cut away the suburbs and let them go back to being their own small towns. Then Jacksonville can do more with downtown.
Quote from: urbaknight on December 23, 2010, 02:46:00 PM
I think that Jacksonville should be deconsolated, cut away the suburbs and let them go back to being their own small towns. Then Jacksonville can do more with downtown.
I really do think that is Jacksonville's true problem. I think citys finances are spread to thin. This really is a massive city to manage. If we werent coslidated, we probably could do alot more for downtown.
I seriously doubt that. DT problem has been lack of vision, poor planning, and failure to follow DT master plan. City keeps chasing its own tail.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 23, 2010, 03:04:39 PM
I seriously doubt that. DT problem has been lack of vision, poor planning, and failure to follow DT mater plan. City keeps chasing its own tail.
Hey Keith spell check sir :D (gotcha back)
lol yeah you did. :)
deconsolidation would be a terrible idea....I know this will seem surprising to the "sprawl is the whole problem" people, but the City brings in a lot of revenue from our suburban residents and businesses.
Check with the folks in Tampa...they have a very conservative County Commissions, because the unincorporated areas have all the power....unfortunately, they also have much of the money and still have a good bit of control over what happens in the city.
The suburbs boost the tax base. Jacksonville downtown property values have absolutely plummeted and no longer contribute a large share of the tax base. If we go back to pre-consolidation, the tax base will be so small. There is no way downtown, Springfield, Riverside, Avondale, Murray Hill, and the ghetto are supporting everything we want to get done downtown in the next 5 years. We need the Southside tax base for the time being, and then maybe once things pick up in the core and property values go back up we can tease the idea (it will never happen).
I think Tampa and downtown Tampa are about a half mile ahead of us. I wouldn't say "miles", but they have benefited from an influx of wealthy new residents recently and some older residents wanting to seal their influence before the new guys take over. Hence all of the new attractions and museums and restorations named for Tampans (can we call them that?). Jax has more potential and has kept more of their older building stock, but we need more "stuff" downtown. The new Tampa Museum of Art makes me nervous. I think the Cummer is the best art museum in the state, but it needs some attention if it's going to hold onto that reign. Their Riverwalk looks like it may be "better" than ours, too. We need an improved Riverwalk, a good riverfront park anchor, and some sort of attraction to pull more people in immediately.
Tampa has cruise terminal downtown (though from what I hear many people think it was done so poorly), FL's best public aquarium, arena right downtown, two new museums right downtown, new Riverwalk, TECO, etc etc. In Jacksonville, as soon as the economy picks back up we should immediately jump on board to pull in an old ship, moor it on the Southbank or by the Hyatt, and build a state of the art maritime museum. We also need to get the Landing going.
Personally, though, I would much rather live in Jacksonville and I like the people in Jacksonville a whole lot more. There is something that I have always found weird with Tampa (people wise).
Quote from: simms3 on December 24, 2010, 11:58:55 AM
There is something that I have always found weird with Tampa (people wise).
I've always felt that as well. I wonder what it is?
Tampa aquarium is a dump fish bowl. It could be much better, well atleast they have one.
Here is an idea we should pay attention to.
QuoteDowntown Selmon Greenway clears planning hurdle
By GEORGE WILKENS | The Tampa Tribune
Published: January 3, 2011
TAMPA - A plan to create a recreational trail beneath and adjacent to the Selmon Crosstown Expressway through downtown Tampa has cleared a feasibility hurdle but faces an uphill fight for funding.
The proposal is to create a multi-use trail like those in downtown Boston, Minneapolis and other cities. Such a path for cyclists and pedestrians also is prudent in Tampa, according to a study by a consulting firm hired by the Hillsborough County Metropolitan Planning Organization. At its Dec. 14 meeting, the MPO supported the feasibility plan's findings.
Now the Tampa-Hillsborough Expressway Authority will seek a way to pay for the Selmon Greenway.
The owner-operator of a downtown bicycle shop who is familiar with the trail proposal said it would be an excellent link among downtown, Ybor City, Hyde Park, the Channel District and beyond.
"Everyone is extremely excited about it," said Kellie Cyr, of City Bike Tampa, citing buzz among customers and other cyclists.
There are no trails downtown or nearby, said Cyr, who has participated in meetings about the greenway and believes it will take time for the proposal to gain widespread acceptance. She is optimistic: "Everything will come to fruition, but you've got to have funding for it," she said.
An expressway authority spokeswoman said the agency hopes to pay for the greenway by incorporating it into a broader project â€" widening a stretch of the 30-year-old Selmon toll road to six lanes and replacing the decking on the existing four lanes.
Using a $75 million lawsuit settlement related to the 2004 collapse of the expressway's reversible lanes, the authority will restructure its debt, spokeswoman Susan Chrzan said. The authority's board voted to use that money to pay down long-term debt, allowing it to borrow $300 million to $400 million for other projects.
"We're going to issue new bonds so (we) can do the widening of the area downtown, from about 19th Street to the river; we call it the viaduct," Chrzan said. That could happen as early as this spring, at which time the viaduct project contractor would be selected.
"Were still are in the planning stage; we're still in the trying-to-find-the-money stage," Chrzan said. "We're going to try and see if we can get money within that bond structure" to include the greenway, a project of about $2 million.
"We're hoping we can do other things" under the debt restructuring and bond issue, she said. "But we're not yet ready to say it's a go."
Other funding sources will be in the authority's sights. "We'll probably be going and asking for help to get the money," Chrzan said. "That might be city, county, federal, wherever we can get it; grants bonds, whatever."
The expressway authority proposed the multi-use trail more than a decade ago, a 15-foot-wide urban path to improve pedestrian and bicycle access to the Downtown Riverwalk, Meridian Street Greenway, Bayshore Boulevard and the Channel District. The trail also is intended to increase downtown park space and add art and educational elements.
"We think its great idea," Chrzan said. "It's not that it's a dead issue; it's that we have to find the money for it."
The executive summary of the proposed Selmon Greenway calls it, "a unique opportunity to include a walking/cycling facility in a highway reconstruction project."
Planners envision the 1.7-mile greenway including benches, fountains and outdoor exercise equipment, plus lighting for safety and aesthetics.
Boston's Rose Kennedy Greenway was built where Interstate 93 once ran before the Big Dig project took the highway underground. In Minneapolis, the Midtown Greenway is a 5.5-mile stretch through downtown along an old rail line.
In Tampa, much of the right of way beneath the toll road is used for public parking. The feasibility study shows the greenway would eliminate 86 of those 973 spaces, but they won't be missed, Karen Kress, director of transportation and planning for the Tampa Downtown Partnership, has said.
Downtown parking garages have 22,000 spaces and on-street parking in the area accommodates another 2,000 vehicles. The downtown group is squarely behind the proposal and has received no negative comments about it.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/jan/03/030727/selmon-greenway-clears-planning-hurdle/news-breaking/