I recently had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine. He is not highly educated, but is very smart and very good at what he does. He is an independent tradesman who has made his way in the world by himself.
He told me that he has been buying food stamps at 50% off their face value from some men he knows so that they can buy beer and cigarettes and he and his wife can save on their food purchases.
He said it dawned on him that the men from whom he was buying the food stamps were getting food from shelters or the women they were living with and that they were all able to work, but had found a way to live without doing so. Having food stamps that they could sell so that they could buy cigarettes and beer let them have their pleasures too.
He realized that he was helping cheat what food stamps were intended for and has become indignant that a single man who was able to work was getting food stamps that evidently weren't needed.
I know nothing about the food stamp program; how people qualify, how long the program goes on, etc. and thought that this fits in with the proposal that anyone on "welfare" get drug tested in order to continue receiving benefits. My friend now agrees with this last.
Are food stamps welfare? How do they relate to the WIC (Women, Infants & Children) program.
Can some of you out there add information and opinions concerning this?
Well, there's all kinds of ways. Here are the Federal requirements of SNAP (the formal name for "food stamps"). They might not be as able-bodied as they appear, or they might have an elderly or disabled person in their household. Or they might just plain be lying and haven't been caught yet!
http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/applicant_recipients/eligibility.htm
Also, you can purchase any grocery food item with food stamps (SNAP), including any kind of junk food. Their are only certain foods covered under WIC - it's intended for healthier choices for small children and pregnant mothers.
You can qualify for food stamps if you are collecting unemployment. The men may be able bodied and single, but if they aren't being hired they still have to eat.
Not be hired and not working are two different things no?
Quote from: uptowngirl on December 06, 2010, 01:50:59 PM
Not be hired and not working are two different things no?
They are, and I purposely made the distinction, since if they are receiving unemployment, presumably they have not been able to find a job. This is different than "not working" which can mean many things, including "too lazy to work".
Dog Walker, it should have occurred to that friend of yours that he was committing a serious crime when he was buying those food stamps. It is fraud, plain and simple, on both sides.
Food stamp cards ought to have photo IDs on them. Only the person whose name appears ought to be able to use them. There should be stiff penalties for buying or selling food stamp cards, period. Including being banned from ever getting them again.
Quote from: sheclown on December 06, 2010, 01:56:59 PM
Food stamp cards ought to have photo IDs on them. Only the person whose name appears ought to be able to use them.
Good in theory, but for legitimately disabled people it's often a relative or caregiver doing the shopping and therefore using the card. But I've never seen a cashier bat an eyelash, so clearly the name on the card means nothing.
I agree that abuse should be swiftly and severely punished though.
Unemployment should be revamped, a person should be allowed to work at a lower paying postion and collect unemployment to cover the difference in pay until they can find something in a similar line of work (previously) or until benefits expire (which if should last longer if you are supplementing by working a lower paying job). This just makes sense, as people can have the support longer, and still be encouraged to be actively employed. Some jobs may just go away forever, as the market changes but the current system does not encourage working a lower paying job during your job search. The benefits are not always there long enough to go back to school for retraining. This plan could fix both issues.
Quote from: sheclown on December 06, 2010, 01:56:59 PM
Dog Walker, it should have occurred to that friend of yours that he was committing a serious crime when he was buying those food stamps. It is fraud, plain and simple, on both sides.
Yes, he finally realized what he was doing was wrong, but said it was one of those "everybody-is-doing-it" things that he did not think was very serious. He knows now.
He knows the situations of the guys he was buying the food stamp cards from and says it is a case of "don't want to work." He thinks there isn't very much follow-up or checking for eligibility or changes in status.
Neither he or I have enough information about that to be entitled to an opinion.
Trying to find a balance between helping someone and enabling them is tough in person and even tougher for a bureaucracy.
I know of an unemployed Mother whom adopted her sisters child. she qualified for unemployment but was denied food stamps to feed a 5 year old.
Remember...food stamps might cover food and junk food, but not TP,Toothpaste,brushes,shampoo,soap,paper towels,bleach,dog food,etc..
The people who are abusing this have figured a way to abuse the system through "chumps" who are enabling them.
Why would a contractor enable an able bodied person to "Slum all day with Jerry Springer!!?? Let the son of a bitch work for his BUZZ!
Food stamps can indeed help a poor Able-bodied craftsman get through those low 3 figure weeks. (could YOU live on that?)
Food stamps (EBT), helps ALL THIER PAY to go to JEA for our seasonal change from 90 degrees to low 20's.
QuoteUnemployment should be revamped, a person should be allowed to work at a lower paying postion and collect unemployment to cover the difference in pay until they can find something in a similar line of work (previously) or until benefits expire (which if should last longer if you are supplementing by working a lower paying job).
Substitute "Required" for "Allowed".
I have an "able-bodied", single male friend who receives SNAP benefits. He is a full-time student in a very demanding academic program (nursing school). He was employed part-time in addition to receiving financial aid, but the time demands of school required that he give up his job. He is using SNAP/government assistance for its intended purpose IMO - as a temporary stop gap while he takes affirmative steps towards a productive future.
Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not being critical of anyone who gets food stamps. No way should anyone have to go hungry in this country! Many, many hardworking people are really struggling financially right now through no fault of their own and as a civilized culture we must help them.
Good for us that we have a system in place to provide some help. Do you think we could get such a program put in place in the current political climate when we cannot even get unemployment extended?
"There are plenty of jobs out there if they would just get up off their lazy rumps and get to work" is just simplistic, ignorant nonsense. The jobs are NOT out there right now.
I guess there is going to be a certain amount of abuse of any helping system put into place and the best we can do is keep it to a minimum. Is the SNAP program doing all it can reasonably do to keep the fraud to a minimum?
Sounds like they've learned to run a tight program over the years. Good!
As usual, I've learned a lot from MJ that I didn't know before. Thanks guys! I'll pass the information on to my friend.
This reminds me of a clip on MTV back in the 90's where Ol' Dirty Bastard (successful rapper) took a limo to the welfare office to pick up his food stamps.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYy1QI6ZOeY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYy1QI6ZOeY)
To answer the question posed in the thread, I'd say because they are hungry, out of work, can't find a job, and have no cash on hand... Sounds like a reason to me.
OCKLAWAHA
Please be careful when you ask for massive enforcement for the "abuse" of the system. The military has entire segments devoted to contract abuse and from what I hear from the people who work inside, the abuse prevention system probably cost as much as the abuse itself in addition to all the hidden cost of red tape it produces.
Think about it, a full time investigative agent probably cost around $35,000/yr + benefits. For a measly $100-$200 abuse, that agent has to find and convict 175 to 350 case of abuses a year in order to just make up his salary. Don't forget to add tools like paperwork, cars, office space, etc and this is starting to become rather expensive.
This isn't to say stopping abuse isn't a bad thing (it isn't) but when the people yell abuse at a government agency and it turns to public outrage, that agency has a tendency to go TSA on it's abuse checking to the point where the money spent on waste detection is vastly more expensive then cost of the waste itself. In a way, the TSA is probably a good public representation on how the government prevents abuse to the system.
Good point about the cost effectiveness of stopping abuse by brute force methods. If it can't be done in a way that is smart enough to save more than it costs, then why bother?
My friend says that the most abuse he sees is men who live in the various shelters on a rotating basis and get fed by the shelters so they are able to sell their food stamp cards and still eat. He says that he also sees them being gambled away in domino games in Hemming Park.
In the overall scheme of things that has to be a very small amount of "fraud" in the SNAP program and trying to root out that small amount would probably cost more than it would save.
This guy seems proud to be on Food Stamps.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127743434 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127743434)
Why do single abled body women lay up and have babies to receive assistance? The world may never know. The morale of the story is, there are plenty of un-worthy reciepents out there. So leave the man alone and let him enojy his free food! ok?? ;D
Quote from: uptowngirl on December 06, 2010, 01:50:59 PM
Not be hired and not working are two different things no?
You can not work, if no one hires you ::)
Quote from: JHAT76 on December 07, 2010, 01:02:11 PM
This guy seems proud to be on Food Stamps.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127743434 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127743434)
How so? The only thing he seems to be proud of is being able to create tasty, healthy meals on $200.00 a month.
I have met a few people recently on different types of unemployment/welfare/WIC/Medicare programs that should not qualify to receive them. There is one family in particular really burns me, I met them several years ago. The man is in his late thirties and aspires to be on the PGA tour, although he can’t win on the amateur golf circuit, works different job for cash pay from his father and friend under the table and receives money from mom, owns a house with a pool, drives a BWM and reports zero income to a yearly loss to the government based on his “golf career†â€" qualifies for government assistance. Mom has never held a job, that I know of, for over a year, and these “jobs†have always been with BS pyramid schemes that she always has to quit do to not being able to earn any money at them or because they get in the way of overseas vacations, has a college degree and has never looked for a real job that pertains to this degree, but qualifies for unemployment and other subsidies because she keeps “losing†her employment. Now she is pregnant with child and qualifies for additional gov’t handouts â€" WIC and Medicare. This family also goes on a few multi-week trips out of the country a year (Spain, France, Africa and England in the last two years). There is much more I could add, but won’t to be brief. Basically they live the life of a six figure salary household and are still applying and receiving many different financial benefits “handouts†from our government. I’m sorry, but I don’t see why my hard earned tax dollars should be subsidizing them. Something severely wrong with this picture. I can understand why many Americans need assistance, but the system needs to be adjusted to keep people like this from milking it.
An ad campaign which describes food stamp fraud would not be a bad idea either.
I have mixed feelings about it. I've started off in Jax living with friends, not really having a home, a job, a source of income..... I just partied a lot with 'friends' until the party stopped - this was 99-01. The major difference that I see, is when I needed money, I would go to work - whether it was the HVAC, framing, stone-work - I'd work a few weeks until I had some cash and then go a few weeks not giving a shit. Not once did I go and apply for any assistance. Why not? Because I was living 'my' lifestyle and it didn't require any help from anyone. Fast forward a few years.... I now have a family, a mortgage, a career (still in the housing industry) and things were going well until January of '05 - Massive layoff at the homebuilder and I went from a near 6 figure job to ZERO in 2 weeks. This time I checked into unemployment benefits and they are a joke. The % offered is no where near what it takes to sustain a lifestyle that you're accustomed to. So I declined filling out the BS paperwork and went out on my own - successfully. You find a need that you can expoit and you fill it. Today, I again work for someone else for the stability, but I also run my own business on the side. In the middle of the worst recession in my history, I have found a way to rebound. The major difference in what I do and those I know who have received the assistance is they're still unemployed. They took it, changed their lifestyle to accomodate it and are now in serious trouble because it's running out and they have no where left to turn. So based on my experiences and from what I've seen, as strange as it may sound, I think that these services - unemployment, welfare, food-stamps, etc... should only be available to those that actually work - to help them while they're trying to help themselves instead of giving them an out by enabling them to get by by doing nothing.
If I would have had the government paying me a monthly stipend, paying for my groceries, paying for my housing, etc.... back in the day - I would still be taking the money with no plans on changing anything.
Just reminding you what Stephen said about $200 a month being the minimum if they don't report work.
I understand that even if they do work and report it, the state will reduce their benefits while they still struggle to pay JEA for our wonderful seasonal change from 90 to low 20s.