The Miami Metromover
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1104720014_44XGV-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville takes a look at the result of integrating a Jacksonville Skyway-like transit system with downtown revitalization and economic development: The Miami Metromover.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-nov-the-miami-metromover
Interesting.
Just asking.
1. Didn't notice parking meters in the pics.
2. Are vendors banned except Downtown 2010-856?
3. Bike paths close by and how integrated in the 3 loops?
4. Nice water picture with the bigger boats but curious how small craft and kayaks are integrated in that Waterway. Access points if allowed.
5. This is probably the most important observation but take me on your next trip out of Duval county your obviously having too much fun.
1. They do have parking meters.
2. No. There are street vendors all over the place down there. They really add to the atmosphere, imo.
3. Similar to Jax. The recently rebuilt streets have them and the older streets don't. The entire city is a grid, so there are plenty of lesser traveled corridors for bikers to use that run parallel to arterials. The metromover loops are pretty well integrated. You can also carry bikes onto them and Metrorail.
4. The waterway in the Metromover image is the Miami River. You can kayak and access points are allowed. However, the river is pretty narrow and frequent used by tugs and large cargo ships serving private terminals, so be careful.
5. You paying? ;D
Quote from: Metro Jacksonville on November 29, 2010, 03:44:38 AM
The Miami Metromover
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1104720014_44XGV-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville takes a look at the result of integrating a Jacksonville Skyway-like transit system with downtown revitalization and economic development: The Miami Metromover.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-nov-the-miami-metromover (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-nov-the-miami-metromover)
Expand the Skyway to where people live, play & work alrea6y!
Integrating loops into the ends of each leg would make the system infinitely more practical and faster. IMO, Miami got it right with their circuitous routes.
A one-way Sports Complex route, a one way Southbank loop, and a one way Riverside/Brooklyn route would really set the system apart. That would allow for super effecient game day transportation as well as easily coordinated express routes limiting transfers and increasing headways.
QuoteHere are five reasons why the Metromover attracts significantly higher ridership than its sibling, the Jacksonville Skyway Express.
I'd say six:
6. Trains arrive every 90 seconds during rush hours and every three minutes otherwise.
If it really keeps to that schedule, that is fantastic. Basically, you never have to wait for a train.
I just moved to the Brickell area from JAX and the Metromover is usually pretty busy. It's nice that it's free and it actually goes places.......unlike the JAX model. I catch the mover to the Heat game all the time or down to Bayside, (our version of the Landing, except ours has tons of great stores and restaurants to choose from).
The biggest difference between the 2; One actually connects people to places and the other does not. The Miami MM is only 2 miles longer than the sky way and does 15x the amount of daily riders! They're utilizing a system to it's potential while we argue the chicken & the egg theory.
Hard to believe we've had the Jags over 15 yrs now and the skyway stills does not go the Sports Complex area. I guess its easier to run buses back and forth from the great plains area of grass. Time has ran out on this city.
Nope...........I disagree! Not easier, cheaper than rail though......according to the bovines at JTA!
After receiving a substantial amount of federal investment for the Skyway the routes were never finished; it remains stunted. Now we're applying for federal assistance for a downtown terminal to accomodate commuter transportation, whose passengers are to rely upon the Skyway for final disbursement throughout the city center. No wonder why we recently received no transportation funds. People must be laughing.
I've heard several times that the Skyway routes were never finished. Does anyone have the original map that can be posted?
From my own experience on the Metro Mover which is somewhat limited, it seems like it is well utilized by locals and tourists alike. I never had to wait too long on the platform. It took me where I wanted to go. It was a great way to cover a lot of ground pretty quickly and inexpensively. Well done.
Quote from: dougskiles on November 29, 2010, 06:52:34 PM
I've heard several times that the Skyway routes were never finished. Does anyone have the original map that can be posted?
Not even close... Check out:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-nov-the-forgotten-skyway-plan
EVERY PLAN, and there are a bunch more options that was discussed before a final plan was agreed upon (and still NOT built out) shows the Skyway to the old Government Center, Courthouse, Hyatt, area and some of them went to the Stadium. At one point the deadend on Bay at Hogan had a great big banner hanging across the street which read "I'm Going to the Gator Bowl..." We're still waiting. OCKLAWAHA
QuoteI've heard several times that the Skyway routes were never finished. Does anyone have the original map that can be posted?
The Jacksonville Historical Society has copies of the original plans from the 80s. Contact Jerry Spinks for more access to them.
I went to your link Ocklawaha - very interesting. I also sent an email reqest to JHS.
However, what I'm really curious to see is the final plan that is still not built out that you refer to. Has anyone see that? It sounds like there was a plan that came from what I assume to be several years of studies that was approved by the feds (and maybe even funded?) that hasn't been completed. What does that plan look like?
Quote from: Noone on November 29, 2010, 06:40:49 AM
5. This is probably the most important observation but take me on your next trip out of Duval county your obviously having too much fun.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 29, 2010, 09:50:20 AM
5. You paying? ;D
Yes. We have to take the train. I've never been on one. You get the top bunk. Have you ever heard of Clark Howard? ;D
OK, I used to live in Miami, was born there, and went to high school in downtown (New World School of the Arts,) so I took this Automated People Mover on a regular basis for four years. Some thoughts:
1. Patience is obviously key here. It took a long, long, long time for Downtown Miami to truly become an actual place. It's like Sarah Jessica Parker's career: it was going to the the "next big thing" so many times that people almost missed it as it became the next big thing.
2. The design flaws of Metromover are obvious. The original purpose of the Metromover was to ferry people to work in the new! improved! high-rise! business! district that was Miami in the 1980s...and so people could avoid the streets. This is partially why the Metromover stops like every two blocks or so.
3. Even free, the ridership is still low. Some 90,000+ people live in Downtown Miami, and only 15,000+ a day use it? It's FREE! However, here's where the patience comes in. 30,000+ daily trips is an astonishing increase in ridership from the 1990s...and even the early aughts. It goes to show that patience paired to effective urban planning does deliver results...if not immediately, than over time.
4. It's the only APM integrated with heavy rail in the country (although, considering that it's Miami's MetroFail...)
5. It's experiencing some growing pains as it's being used in ways it wasn't designed for, kind of like Washington's Metro. The Metro was designed to ferry suburbanites into the city's business and commercial districts primarily, but now it's mostly used as a inter-city transit. The same is true of Metromover: designed to transport suburbanites to work without having to "deal" with the streets...now used to get around those very same streets it was designed to avoid. The growing pains will only increase as each Miami MetroFail station goes New Urban, and becomes a part of the greater urban fabric (see: like every station in Washington at present or near-future.)
Metromover's success is largely derived from the easy cross-platform, no-fare transfer from Metrorail. Without that, ridership would be much thinner, but still beefier than the Jacksonville experience. The big prize will come when they run it over to Miami Beach. Washington's system was not designed to ferry suburbanites into downtown Look at the WMATA map. There are plenty of stations both in the District and outside of Washington's huge downtown. Still, it was designed as a regional system and there were political issues that dictated a reasonable amount of parity between DC, Maryland and Virginia (and subsets within). The problem with Washington's system isn't the way it's used, it's the volume of use. It has been too successful and at times demand exceeds designed supply. They need to add more tracks in spots, which is an expensive and difficult proposition. When G Street was dug up for Metro construction during the early 1970s it didn't have that much effect. Downtown was still recovering from the 1968 riots then. Now it would be a different story.
You also need to consider the inherant car-oriented nature of the average Floridian. We were populated by city dwellers wanting their own little peice of land and separation from neighbors. That lifestyle required a car forcing our culture to revolve around it. Things have just recently started to change within the last 10-15 years. I think our youth, having grown up in traffic, will be the ones to revolutionize our transportation future. We just have to give them the right-of-way now.
QuoteWashington's system was not designed to ferry suburbanites into downtown Look at the WMATA map. There are plenty of stations both in the District and outside of Washington's huge downtown. Still, it was designed as a regional system and there were political issues that dictated a reasonable amount of parity between DC, Maryland and Virginia (and subsets within). The problem with Washington's system isn't the way it's used, it's the volume of use. It has been too successful and at times demand exceeds designed supply. They need to add more tracks in spots, which is an expensive and difficult proposition. When G Street was dug up for Metro construction during the early 1970s it didn't have that much effect. Downtown was still recovering from the 1968 riots then. Now it would be a different story.
Yes, it was designed to ferry suburbanites into downtown. It's in every book written on Metro's history. It's in every "Dr. Gridlock" answer to "why can't I get from Chevy Chase to Petworth without going through downtown" answer. It's the centerpiece of a compromise struck between the highway planners and the urban dwellers protecting the fabric of Washington. Moreover, because of that design flaw, the demand exceeding supply problem is exponentially increased.
This is a very different story that the NYC subway, which is specifically designed for inter-city travel.
Quote from: AaroniusLives on December 01, 2010, 10:14:42 AM
This is a very different story that the NYC subway, which is specifically designed for inter-city travel.
Common error that can have big repercussions Aaroniust, the NYC Subway WAS NOT designed for inter-city travel. AMTRAK is inter-city, the Subway is intrA-city. JTA is an example of intra-city - regional - or within a SMA operation. OCKLAWAHA ;D
QuoteYou can also carry bikes onto them and Metrorail.
My bike + Skyway = my ideal transportation combination.
The Miami MM was in the opening shot of last weeks episode of Dexter and it's supposedly right near the 'station' according to the scene. Maybe one or some of the characters will take a ride on a future episode.
Even if it goes in a circle, such as the Miami Metromover or Detroit People Mover, they still carry more people then our Skyway. We are our own best argument for Skyway and Rail.
OCKLAWAHA