(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/IMG_2890-1-1.jpg)
Jerry Moran stood in front of the the entrance of Snyder Church during this evening's art walk. His goal was to pass out this letter to attendees of Downtown Vision's 10th anniversary celebration.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/DVI1001.jpg)
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/DVI2001.jpg)
My list would be a bit different but I love his idea of passing out the letter at the meeting. An effort like this could go a long way.
Is the woman in the background calling for help?
While Jerry can be very outspoken, I admire his guts for taking a stand and demanding a change in the status quo. This city is so mediocre its pathetic. :-[
That is a very large downtown ambassador standing close to him. :)
If downtown wants businesses, especially restaurants and retail, it needs to adjust policies, accordingly.
Ive read enough of this crappy letter to realize this guy is a lil out of touch...The whole AntiBum messages is overkill! The Jail is fine where it is. benches gone?? All they have to do is install the arm rest/seat divider/sleep preventer on the benchs, get rid of tables?? No no no. There were some good ideas, but removing bums will not bring people downtown.
...Hold a sec...This Moran guy is a member of this site...I had de ju moments reading the letter, he was on the Jazz Fest thread. Northbank is a district for everyone, bums included. Look im not a bum supporter,but no one has the right to kick bums out of Northbank. I say if you over populate the area with normal citizens the bums become the minorities. I know this guy runs a business, but the problem I see is there is not enough businesses bringing in shoppers & diners. Lower the cost so that new business can set up. Northbank is dying because local government is allowing it to. What there to do on a regular basis? What are the options? It will be interesting the opinions to come on this thread. If a certain bum is causing trouble than yea, call police and let them do their job ( I know I know Uptowners, JSO sucks but its Northbank not Springfiled) So JSO should be welcome in the area. Bums use the library, but if normal citizens out number the bums then what? Its a public library the whole ID, Social Security Card, PassPort, Military ID thing is nuts. Dont you need an ID card to use the PCs in there?
Well here is something to ponder: downtown Atlanta and upper Midtown Atlanta (starting at about 5th) are two very different areas, and the biggest difference between them is that upper Midtown has a complete lack of bums while downtown Atlanta has a lot of bums. Downtown also has a lot of social services facilities, Woodruff Park that isn't even as bum friendly as Hemming, and the jail. Midtown lacks all of these, has a good police presence (and so does downtown but the police in Midtown are literally bored to tears...they can't even catch speeders), and attractive landscaping. Of course Midtown also is a great and well funded CID, and the tax increment financing for projects is overseen by Midtown Alliance, which is a board of private businessmen that do not have to answer to elected officials downtown. Midtown is one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the country and I am proud to live in the heart of it. Due to these simple differences, Crate and Barrel has opened a store, countless hotels have opened (these aren't the large but crappy convention hotels you find downtown but rather upper mid-sized luxury business class hotels), and countless stores and restaurants from chains to independents have opened up. Outdoor seating is encouraged where there is room, and signs are free to be displayed so long as the signs are appropriate. Oh and another huge difference is that Midtown has the solar powered machines that accept any form of payment for parking whereas downtown still has coin meters. The parking machines were paid for by the CID tax increments.
Our downtown is already a CID that is decently funded, so I have to agree with Jerry Moran that we need to put that money to better use and DVI is clearly not it.
Quote from: Coolyfett on November 04, 2010, 02:01:02 AM
...Hold a sec...This Moran guy is a member of this site...I had de ju moments reading the letter, he was on the Jazz Fest thread. Northbank is a district for everyone, bums included. Look im not a bum supporter,but no one has the right to kick bums out of Northbank. I say if you over populate the area with normal citizens the bums become the minorities. I know this guy runs a business, but the problem I see is there is not enough businesses bringing in shoppers & diners. Lower the cost so that new business can set up. Northbank is dying because local government is allowing it to. What there to do on a regular basis? What are the options? It will be interesting the opinions to come on this thread. If a certain bum is causing trouble than yea, call police and let them do their job ( I know I know Uptowners, JSO sucks but its Northbank not Springfiled) So JSO should be welcome in the area. Bums use the library, but if normal citizens out number the bums then what? Its a public library the whole ID, Social Security Card, PassPort, Military ID thing is nuts. Dont you need an ID card to use the PCs in there?
If you're so outraged at Jerry's statements concerning the vagrants, then why don't you step up and take them all over to your place?
I don't see this fight as "Jerry vs. the bums". I see this as a request to the city to use its resources wisely and dealing with the social problems downtown is an important issue on that list.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2010, 04:30:55 AM
If you're so outraged at Jerry's statements concerning the vagrants, then why don't you step up and take them all over to your place?
or perhaps we could all suggest some other locations in the City for the social service agencies...you know, areas with little to no neighborhood opposition that also provide access to transportation and other services.
I don't have a problem with the letter but punishing everyone because this city refuses to properly deal with the vagrant issue isn't the solution. Removing benches and seats from public parks would be an example of overkill, imo.
who runs DVI? It should be kept in place but operated by a private board of property and business owners like Jerry that have a stake in it.
Jerry has the worst execution when he tries to make a point. I enjoy his passion but he shoots himself in the foot every single time.
Quote from: sheclown on November 04, 2010, 06:23:25 AM
I don't see this fight as "Jerry vs. the bums". I see this as a request to the city to use its resources wisely and dealing with the social problems downtown is an important issue on that list.
Problem as I see it, the bums, homeless, vagrants, Urban Outdoorsmen, (insert your favorite term), etc is one of Mr. Moran's bigger issues. As a business owner you rely on word of mouth to generate more business. Advertising is great, but nothing compares to a friend's recommendation, agreed? I'm going to post a video that he posted a while back, and I ask you all, "If you were involved or witnessed the incident below, would you recommend his restaurant to someone else or would you tell the story, 'How I was Almost/I Saw Someone Almost Get Killed at La Cena'?" Personally, I can't blame the guy (Moran) for making the bums his biggest issue, because IMO it affects his bank account the most.
http://www.youtube.com/v/0ZXHp6bsCow?version=3
BTW - if you look at the time stamp, this is at 2 in the afternoon.
It is sad that people who are putting their money and efforts in Downtown still feel this way. I have to say I do not completely disagree with him. Everytime I go Downtown, I just get depressed. Thinking about all the wasted potential. When oh when are things going to change? It seems like some things should be easy to fix, like the parking meter situation.
^Affordable solutions to many of DT's ailments aren't exactly rocket science. Especially, when you can copy success stories from cities spread out over 49 other states and 66 other counties in Florida. There needs to be turnover in leadership. IMO, thats what's holding DT back.
And Moran is spot on with parking.
Quote from: fsujax on November 04, 2010, 08:47:37 AM
It is sad that people who are putting their money and efforts in Downtown still feel this way. I have to say I do not completely disagree with him. Everytime I go Downtown, I just get depressed. Thinking about all the wasted potential. When oh when are things going to change? It seems like some things should be easy to fix, like the parking meter situation.
People dont come to Northbank, because they dont see what to do there. What company promotes their location on the Northbank? I think Marks is th only one I ever saw ads for. The word of mouth is not strong enough. People can blame parking & bums all they want. That issue applies to Uptowners & Riversiders. What is there to DO on Northbank that John Doe would leave Murray Hill for? What is there to DO for Jane X when she comes down there. Most people on this forum, visit or hang in the core districts because there is an interest. The problem is enough people in Jax or not interested. So making the core MORE Interesting is what it takes. Why would someone who lives on Baymeadows, Moncrief or Blanding come to the core districts when everything they need is right there where they live. Again parking & bums is not the issue why the common suburban citizen doesnt visit Northbank, its lack of interest. Rats & mice go where the cheese is.
You're wrong, parking and bums is why all the businesses left. Without businesses, there are naturally no customers. Is this really that hard to figure out? Who is going to go down there and get a parking ticket just to look around at empty buildings.
And let me guess...just like everyone else who makes these arguments, you don't have a business downtown, do you? Nope. You are going to sit safely ensconced behind your keyboard and say that the dozens of business owners of every size who've fled the north bank and cited these reasons are wrong, despite having no professional experience with it or any of your own skin in the game. Nice.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2010, 04:30:55 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on November 04, 2010, 02:01:02 AM
...Hold a sec...This Moran guy is a member of this site...I had de ju moments reading the letter, he was on the Jazz Fest thread. Northbank is a district for everyone, bums included. Look im not a bum supporter,but no one has the right to kick bums out of Northbank. I say if you over populate the area with normal citizens the bums become the minorities. I know this guy runs a business, but the problem I see is there is not enough businesses bringing in shoppers & diners. Lower the cost so that new business can set up. Northbank is dying because local government is allowing it to. What there to do on a regular basis? What are the options? It will be interesting the opinions to come on this thread. If a certain bum is causing trouble than yea, call police and let them do their job ( I know I know Uptowners, JSO sucks but its Northbank not Springfiled) So JSO should be welcome in the area. Bums use the library, but if normal citizens out number the bums then what? Its a public library the whole ID, Social Security Card, PassPort, Military ID thing is nuts. Dont you need an ID card to use the PCs in there?
If you're so outraged at Jerry's statements concerning the vagrants, then why don't you step up and take them all over to your place?
Dude?? Really? You making this discussion about bums? Outraged? No. Confused? Maybe....I dont believe in GIVING bums/homeless/vagrats/panhandler MORE POWER than they deserve, they are friggin bums, muscle em out of the way and conduct business. The weakest group of america generates so much fear?? They are bums teach them THEIR place in society not the other way around. Now Chris how outragious is that? ha ha ha ha
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2010, 10:54:21 AM
You're wrong, parking and bums is why all the businesses left. Without businesses, there are naturally no customers. Is this really that hard to figure out? Who is going to go down there and get a parking ticket just to look around at empty buildings.
And let me guess...just like everyone else who makes these arguments, you don't have a business downtown, do you? Nope. You are going to sit safely ensconced behind your keyboard and say that the dozens of business owners of every size who've fled the north bank and cited these reasons are wrong, despite having no professional experience with it or any of your own skin in the game. Nice.
Their business closed because their product SUCKED. Bums & Parking is cop out. Sorry Im not buying it. Create an interesting place to go, and people will come.
(Allen Iverson voice)
Were talking about BUMS?
BUMS?
not murderers or rapist, But BUMS?
BUMS?
Quote from: sheclown on November 04, 2010, 06:23:25 AM
I don't see this fight as "Jerry vs. the bums". I see this as a request to the city to use its resources wisely and dealing with the social problems downtown is an important issue on that list.
I was taking it as just that, BUT I saw some things about the Downtown Vision group, they also have people that post here. so i will be interesting to see how they respond. It may not be a Jerry vs Bums smackoff, but the removing of lunch tables & benches was about bum, a normal citizen like me uses those same chairs & tables. The social problems will never go away, especially in the main core district Northbank. I saw bums in Riverside, Springfield, Southbank & San Marco, yet people still live & go to these areas. Springfield & Riverside are perfect examples of when happen when an area is over popuation with good well meaning citizens vs it being filled with the poverty destructive types. Thats the point Im making about Northbank.
Quote from: SunKing on November 04, 2010, 08:18:46 AM
who runs DVI? It should be kept in place but operated by a private board of property and business owners like Jerry that have a stake in it.
This is far & makes logical sense. Maybe DVI could be like SPAR or RAP?
Quote from: Coolyfett on November 04, 2010, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2010, 10:54:21 AM
You're wrong, parking and bums is why all the businesses left. Without businesses, there are naturally no customers. Is this really that hard to figure out? Who is going to go down there and get a parking ticket just to look around at empty buildings.
And let me guess...just like everyone else who makes these arguments, you don't have a business downtown, do you? Nope. You are going to sit safely ensconced behind your keyboard and say that the dozens of business owners of every size who've fled the north bank and cited these reasons are wrong, despite having no professional experience with it or any of your own skin in the game. Nice.
Their business closed because their product SUCKED. Bums & Parking is cop out. Sorry Im not buying it. Create an interesting place to go, and people will come.
(Allen Iverson voice)
Were talking about BUMS?
BUMS?
not murderers or rapist, But BUMS?
BUMS?
You ought to call up Starbucks and tell them how badly their business sucks. LMAO...
As usual, no clue what you're talking about.
Quote from: stephendare on November 04, 2010, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on November 04, 2010, 11:03:28 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2010, 10:54:21 AM
You're wrong, parking and bums is why all the businesses left. Without businesses, there are naturally no customers. Is this really that hard to figure out? Who is going to go down there and get a parking ticket just to look around at empty buildings.
And let me guess...just like everyone else who makes these arguments, you don't have a business downtown, do you? Nope. You are going to sit safely ensconced behind your keyboard and say that the dozens of business owners of every size who've fled the north bank and cited these reasons are wrong, despite having no professional experience with it or any of your own skin in the game. Nice.
Their business closed because their product SUCKED. Bums & Parking is cop out. Sorry Im not buying it. Create an interesting place to go, and people will come.
(Allen Iverson voice)
Were talking about BUMS?
BUMS?
not murderers or rapist, But BUMS?
BUMS?
Coolyfett, you really don't know what you are talking about on this subject. Jerry Moran does a magnificent job of muddying the issues so badly that you get distracted by his right wing politics and his constant use of the word 'bums'. Starbucks didnt suck. Moon Colony Razorblade didnt suck. Boomtown didnt Suck, Moto Lounge didnt Suck, Club Heaven didnt 'suck'.
These are normally the assholey claims made by either tufsu1 or dganson to explain why downtown is so deserted. But if you can step back for a moment from the politics, there is a difference between the panhandlers and the homeless. By and large it isnt the homeless that are the problem.
The panhandlers usually have homes and live not too far away.
Jerry's demands that the public amenities like benches and street furniture be taken away are patently absurd, and will only make downtown more forbidding for middle class or casual customers.
I agree, downtown needs to be more welcoming and cooler to attract more people, and Jerry's crusade to shut down the parks, turn off the water fountains, remove the benches, and other similar programs has done the exact opposite. If anything the downtown needs more amenities. The area simply cannot succeed if the only design concept is 'make the bums physically uncomfortable'.
But La Cena is a great restaurant and is one of the few draws left to downtown cooly.
Hopefully you can chill a bit and reconsider your comments about downtown businesses sucking. They deal with things that no other business in the city has to deal with.
Maybe the word SUCKS was the wrong word, UNDERPROMOTED or UNDERRATED would be better, and yes I am an asshole, an honest asshole. BUT, still the fact remain that.....hold Starbucks was a corporate close was it not?? They were making money. I remember Boomtown, that was like a poetry joint right?? Wasnt Stephan Dare over that?? That goes in the UNDERATED catagory easily. So again Chris Im not seeing eye to eye removing chairs & tables in Hemming or benches...The Main Street park was lame idea...was it not? Who made that happen? This is why the SJTC being where it is bothers many, because a development like that DOES create interest. The interest is needed on Northbank, Southbank, Springfield & Riverside, In that order..
I like this Chris. Im enjoying myself. Its your turn now.
More Fiya! More Fiya!
I don't think it is fair to lump Starbuck's closing in with the other businesses mentioned....they were doing reasonably well and were a casualty of a corporate downsizing policy to close recently opened stores....which is why the store at the Landing (opened years ago) is still open.
Quote from: SunKing on November 04, 2010, 08:18:46 AM
who runs DVI? It should be kept in place but operated by a private board of property and business owners like Jerry that have a stake in it.
This. DVI is Jacksonville's version of Midtown Alliance, except Midtown Alliance is completely privately run by Midtown developers, company executives, and influential residents. It gets what needs to be done done and anyone who has been there can see that even in this economy the place is flourishing and its real estate market is doing much better than Buckhead right now.
Coolyfett you live in Atlanta like I do, I'm surprised you didn't comment on my original post on this thread. What do you see as the differences between Midtown and Downtown and do you think one is more successful than the other as a result?
Taking away benches is probably too harsh, but I don't think Hemming Plaza needs those crappy looking school cafeteria tables. Also word of mouth for downtown is very strong. The downtown bars/clubs are successful even without 97.9 KISS FM radio campaigns, so increasing word of mouth will only create long lines.
aren't long lines something we want to see downtown? and why are some of you some combative in your posts?^^
I was in Orlando earlier in the week and was discussing their policies regarding panhandling downtown with a downtown merchant. They have designated panhandling zones, and are now proposing to retrofit the parking meters within this designated zone to have panhandlers pay for the right to panhandle.
Of course, panhandling downtown is illegal in Jax, but Ive been asked for money 6 times since last Thursday downtown.
Just a point of discussion to chew on. Orlando has got the pedestrian friendly downtown part done pretty well, so always curious to know what they're DVI-like group is up to.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 04, 2010, 11:39:28 AM
I don't think it is fair to lump Starbuck's closing in with the other businesses mentioned....they were doing reasonably well and were a casualty of a corporate downsizing policy to close recently opened stores....which is why the store at the Landing (opened years ago) is still open.
Yeah ok Tufsu, if it had been making a pile of money it would still be open, you know it as well as everyone else does. It most certainly should be lumped into these discussions, because it disproves these silly nonsensical arguments about how every one of the thousands of businesses who've fled downtown during the past decade or two just weren't doing things the right way.
Funny, Adecco, Starbucks, Life of the South, and too many other businesses of all sizes to name at this point, all seem to do just fine, except for in downtown Jacksonville. So Tufsu, a/k/a Occam's rusty safety razor, what do you find more likely; That virtually every single business down there closed because each and all of them were doing it wrong, or that there is a problem with the environment itself?
Quote from: stephendare on November 04, 2010, 11:31:20 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on November 04, 2010, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: SunKing on November 04, 2010, 08:18:46 AM
who runs DVI? It should be kept in place but operated by a private board of property and business owners like Jerry that have a stake in it.
This is far & makes logical sense. Maybe DVI could be like SPAR or RAP?
DVI is the creation of a self imposed tax by the landowners downtown. A decade ago they voted to tax their own property at a higher rate, and use the money to improve the downtown. This is called a "BID" or a Business Improvement District. (its also called alternately a TIF--Tax Increment Financing)
The landowners passed the tax, and then they decided that the best way to use the money (they can literally use the money for anything----from road improvements to 900ft brittney spears statues) was to create DVI.
Since then, DVI has also received funds from the city council and other sources.
The 'problem' lies in the makeup of the downtown landowners. Imagine how much money is contributed in the form of taxes for the BID from the parking lot companies.
I just realized I responded to you when I though it was Chris earlier ha ha my bust! But on the real is Moran apart of this DVI group, because his letter seems against them. The letter was kinda radical, but Stephan the part that spoke the loudest to me was the removing of benches & chairs in Hemming..The Jail does not need to be relocated unless its affordable. And on a serious note Panhandlers & Homeless are not the same, you are right, BUT for either to prevent the common man from shopping, eating, hanging out on Northbank is over my head man. This fear of this type of citizen ANNOYS the hell out of me. Its something I dont get. Maybe you understand this wasteful fear, but I do not. Ill go downtown of any city bums are no different than highrises, public transit, Street vendors, government building or bank buildings. Its apart of the game Stephan.
My advice to Moran is be more competitive. Maybe he is thinking too small? Maybe he is not ready for the Northbank hustle. Maybe he can adjust, but trying to make Northbank adjust TO HIM is wack. Thats all Im saying. Bums HAVE NO POWER,....THEY ARE BUMS.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2010, 11:55:55 AM
Funny, Adecco, Starbucks, Life of the South, and too many other businesses of all sizes to name at this point, all seem to do just fine, except for in downtown Jacksonville. So Tufsu, a/k/a Occam's rusty safety razor, what do you find more likely; That virtually every single business down there closed because each and all of them were doing it wrong, or that there is a problem with the environment itself?
QuoteStarbucks closing 6 locations in Jacksonville area
Jacksonville Business Journal
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 11:50am EDT - Last Modified: Friday, July 18, 2008, 3:05pm EDT Related:
Economic Snapshot
Six Jacksonville area locations are among the 600 Starbucks Coffee Co. stores to close.
The Seattle-based coffee company released the locations that include two in Jacksonville at 8060 Philips Highway and 11 E. Forsyth St., three in Orange Park at 1910 Wells Road, 410 Blanding Blvd. and 1907 Wells Road, and one in St. Johns County at 3055 County Road 210 W. The three slated closings leave about 29 Starbucks locations in Jacksonville area.
The local locations are among the 59 in Florida, making the state second in the number of closings only to California's 88. Texas had the third highest number of closings with 57. Collectively the California, Florida and Texas account for 33 percent of the 621 closings in 44 states and the District of Columbia.
The company announced July 1 that it would close some 600 company-operated under performing stores in the U.S. beginning in July through the first half of Fiscal Year 2009.
Las Vegas had the most closings of any city in the nation with 13, followed by nine each in San Diego, Baton Rouge and Dallas. There were seven closings in Seattle, the company's home city, and 19 in the state of Washington.
Six Jacksonville area locations are among the 600 Starbucks Coffee Co. stores to close.
The Seattle-based coffee company released the locations that include two in Jacksonville at 8060 Philips Highway and 11 E. Forsyth St., three in Orange Park at 1910 Wells Road, 410 Blanding Blvd. and 1907 Wells Road, and one in St. Johns County at 3055 County Road 210 W. The three slated closings leave about 29 Starbucks locations in Jacksonville area.
The local locations are among the 59 in Florida, making the state second in the number of closings only to California's 88. Texas had the third highest number of closings with 57. Collectively the California, Florida and Texas account for 33 percent of the 621 closings in 44 states and the District of Columbia.
The company announced July 1 that it would close some 600 company-operated under performing stores in the U.S. beginning in July through the first half of Fiscal Year 2009.
Las Vegas had the most closings of any city in the nation with 13, followed by nine each in San Diego, Baton Rouge and Dallas. There were seven closings in Seattle, the company's home city, and 19 in the state of Washington.
Read more: Starbucks closing 6 locations in Jacksonville area | Jacksonville Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/07/14/daily27.html
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 04, 2010, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 04, 2010, 11:55:55 AM
Funny, Adecco, Starbucks, Life of the South, and too many other businesses of all sizes to name at this point, all seem to do just fine, except for in downtown Jacksonville. So Tufsu, a/k/a Occam's rusty safety razor, what do you find more likely; That virtually every single business down there closed because each and all of them were doing it wrong, or that there is a problem with the environment itself?
QuoteStarbucks closing 6 locations in Jacksonville area
Jacksonville Business Journal
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 11:50am EDT - Last Modified: Friday, July 18, 2008, 3:05pm EDT Related:
Economic Snapshot
Six Jacksonville area locations are among the 600 Starbucks Coffee Co. stores to close.
The Seattle-based coffee company released the locations that include two in Jacksonville at 8060 Philips Highway and 11 E. Forsyth St., three in Orange Park at 1910 Wells Road, 410 Blanding Blvd. and 1907 Wells Road, and one in St. Johns County at 3055 County Road 210 W. The three slated closings leave about 29 Starbucks locations in Jacksonville area.
The local locations are among the 59 in Florida, making the state second in the number of closings only to California's 88. Texas had the third highest number of closings with 57. Collectively the California, Florida and Texas account for 33 percent of the 621 closings in 44 states and the District of Columbia.
The company announced July 1 that it would close some 600 company-operated under performing stores in the U.S. beginning in July through the first half of Fiscal Year 2009.
Las Vegas had the most closings of any city in the nation with 13, followed by nine each in San Diego, Baton Rouge and Dallas. There were seven closings in Seattle, the company's home city, and 19 in the state of Washington.
Six Jacksonville area locations are among the 600 Starbucks Coffee Co. stores to close.
The Seattle-based coffee company released the locations that include two in Jacksonville at 8060 Philips Highway and 11 E. Forsyth St., three in Orange Park at 1910 Wells Road, 410 Blanding Blvd. and 1907 Wells Road, and one in St. Johns County at 3055 County Road 210 W. The three slated closings leave about 29 Starbucks locations in Jacksonville area.
The local locations are among the 59 in Florida, making the state second in the number of closings only to California's 88. Texas had the third highest number of closings with 57. Collectively the California, Florida and Texas account for 33 percent of the 621 closings in 44 states and the District of Columbia.
The company announced July 1 that it would close some 600 company-operated under performing stores in the U.S. beginning in July through the first half of Fiscal Year 2009.
Las Vegas had the most closings of any city in the nation with 13, followed by nine each in San Diego, Baton Rouge and Dallas. There were seven closings in Seattle, the company's home city, and 19 in the state of Washington.
Read more: Starbucks closing 6 locations in Jacksonville area | Jacksonville Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/07/14/daily27.html
Yes, did you not see the word "underperforming" in your own article that you quoted?
So thanks for backing up my point. And FYI, Starbucks has 11,168 stores total, almost all of which are profitable, and opened 745 this year, which more than they closed during the downsizing you cited. So why hasn't this one opened back up?
Quote from: Coolyfett on November 04, 2010, 12:00:55 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 04, 2010, 11:31:20 AM
Quote from: Coolyfett on November 04, 2010, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: SunKing on November 04, 2010, 08:18:46 AM
who runs DVI? It should be kept in place but operated by a private board of property and business owners like Jerry that have a stake in it.
This is far & makes logical sense. Maybe DVI could be like SPAR or RAP?
DVI is the creation of a self imposed tax by the landowners downtown. A decade ago they voted to tax their own property at a higher rate, and use the money to improve the downtown. This is called a "BID" or a Business Improvement District. (its also called alternately a TIF--Tax Increment Financing)
The landowners passed the tax, and then they decided that the best way to use the money (they can literally use the money for anything----from road improvements to 900ft brittney spears statues) was to create DVI.
Since then, DVI has also received funds from the city council and other sources.
The 'problem' lies in the makeup of the downtown landowners. Imagine how much money is contributed in the form of taxes for the BID from the parking lot companies.
I just realized I responded to you when I though it was Chris earlier ha ha my bust! But on the real is Moran apart of this DVI group, because his letter seems against them. The letter was kinda radical, but Stephan the part that spoke the loudest to me was the removing of benches & chairs in Hemming..The Jail does not need to be relocated unless its affordable. And on a serious note Panhandlers & Homeless are not the same, you are right, BUT for either to prevent the common man from shopping, eating, hanging out on Northbank is over my head man. This fear of this type of citizen ANNOYS the hell out of me. Its something I dont get. Maybe you understand this wasteful fear, but I do not. Ill go downtown of any city bums are no different than highrises, public transit, Street vendors, government building or bank buildings. Its apart of the game Stephan.
My advice to Moran is be more competitive. Maybe he is thinking too small? Maybe he is not ready for the Northbank hustle. Maybe he can adjust, but trying to make Northbank adjust TO HIM is wack. Thats all Im saying. Bums HAVE NO POWER,....THEY ARE BUMS.
I don't think Moran, or anyone else for that matter, is interested in taking advice from someone who hasn't a clue what they're talking about and has never actually run a business downtown, or probably at all. What's next, going to have the guys sleeping at Clara White give you advice on tax shelters? I guess it IS technically a shelter...
Parking needs to be addressed.
Social issues need to be addressed.
Years ago, I was against the idea of moving social services out of the urban core b/c that is ...well...where the other services are. Now, I have come to the conclusion that the only way to deal with our social problems (homelessness, mental health & etc) is to decentralize.
If the city's churches, all of them, from the beaches to Chafee Road, reached out to a handful of vulnerable urban core dwellers, and adopted them, this social situation would be solved. The city can't solve the problem, it is drowning in its own troubles.
The faith community needs to rise up and take ownership. And I'm not talking about getting in your SUV and driving downtown with a couple of sandwiches. I'm talking about bringing some folks back into your church, your homes, your places of employment and really making a difference in people's lives.
The faith community is the only community with resources for a job like this.
Besides, there's a book somewhere that talks about doing just this sort of thing.
Quote from: sheclown on November 04, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Besides, there's a book somewhere that talks about doing just this sort of thing.
I went to the library to check it out, and the clerk told me that it was checked out in your name. ;D
I apologize for the little dig, but from what I've read they are totally jerking you around, and for that I'm sorry.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 04, 2010, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: sheclown on November 04, 2010, 03:37:36 PM
Besides, there's a book somewhere that talks about doing just this sort of thing.
I went to the library to check it out, and the clerk told me that it was checked out in your name. ;D
I apologize for the little dig, but from what I've read they are totally jerking you around, and for that I'm sorry.
funny guy!! Love it.
Coolyfett...please answer my question to you and please type a somewhat reasonably intelligent post. Don't let your emotions run your thoughts. Bums can be a huge problem as they are in DT Jax, DT Atl, DT SF, and a few other notable spots. Of course we all realize that bums/panhandlers are not even always homeless and homeless does not equal bum/panhandler, but a bum is a bum is a bum. When I am out of cigs and want a smoke, I "bum" a cig from a friend. I'm being a bum in that instance and I'm far from homeless but I am mooching off of someone else. Jerry Moran has the best Italian restaurant in town and he definitely "steps his game up" and has handled the "hustle" of the Northbank for a pretty long while. Please can you use different words, too? Actually don't because it is something different in my day and does put a smile on my face so nevermind, LoL. (I'm serious about putting a smile on my face, though, but it is hard to take some of your comments seriously because the language is a little casual)
Quote from: simms3 on November 04, 2010, 03:50:34 PM
Coolyfett...please answer my question to you and please type a somewhat reasonably intelligent post. Don't let your emotions run your thoughts.
That's a legitimate question. And the response from Coolyfett?
*crickets*chirping*
Let's try a thought experiment. What would happen if, instead of removing benches, fountains, etc. from downtown, we put MORE, LOTS MORE in place. What would happen if each storefront and building had benches lining the sidewalk and had awning in place over them?
What would happen if we made all of downtown pedestrian and sitting friendly, not just a couple of parks? Would this make the bum problem worse, better or just less concentrated?
Dog Walker............won't happen! City is broke remember? We can afford rebuilding River Walk or Metropolitan Park with no money in the kitty..............makes me wonder just how we are going to pay for those amenitys? Besides, current administration could not plan its way out of a wet paper bag much less do anything about making downtown pedestrian friendly! Urban outdoorpersons would tend to congregate collectively I would think, but thats just MHO!
I think I understand where Jerry is coming from on the bench issue.
When you want to have lunch in the plaza on a nice day, the vagrants occupy either all the shady seats, or all the sunny ones. (depending on the weather)
Also; from a female perspective, when they are all in the benches-by the corner or Laura and Duval-and you have to walk through them to go to Moca or hell, get a hot dog, it is VERY intimidating.
Hemming is not being used as it is intended, and instead is a daytime rec yard for vagrants.
Vagrants are dangerous. They are not attached or affiliated to anything here, committing vandalism, panhandling, etc, only to hop a train to the next city.
An earlier poster said it well, that Jerry is a little rough of speech and manner- but I see where he is coming from about some of the benches.
Lol...smh
Quote from: simms3 on November 04, 2010, 03:50:34 PM
Coolyfett...please answer my question to you and please type a somewhat reasonably intelligent post. Don't let your emotions run your thoughts. Bums can be a huge problem as they are in DT Jax, DT Atl, DT SF, and a few other notable spots. Of course we all realize that bums/panhandlers are not even always homeless and homeless does not equal bum/panhandler, but a bum is a bum is a bum. When I am out of cigs and want a smoke, I "bum" a cig from a friend. I'm being a bum in that instance and I'm far from homeless but I am mooching off of someone else. Jerry Moran has the best Italian restaurant in town and he definitely "steps his game up" and has handled the "hustle" of the Northbank for a pretty long while. Please can you use different words, too? Actually don't because it is something different in my day and does put a smile on my face so nevermind, LoL. (I'm serious about putting a smile on my face, though, but it is hard to take some of your comments seriously because the language is a little casual)
Whats up simms Im just now seeing this post. What is the question? I was just in Woodruff Park today. I mean Simms I dont know bro, homeless guys dont really effect me like some, maybe because Im a black male or the way I carry myself...I really dont know man. I mean The Marta gets those bums with their stupid guilt trip stories & I am just never effected. In fact sometimes I laugh. Again Im probably an asshole/jerk/douchebag...But bums never stop me from going to Underground Atlanta, Wooduff or anywhere on Peachtree. I honestly cant give an educated answer for how I feel about others views on homeless people man. Ive heard Seattle & San Fran were worse. You know maybe you & I could walk the streets together and see if they approach you while with me and see if im approched while Im with you...like a project lol. Just let my know my off days change around, but I am downtown a bit. I know you hang in the midtown area.
Quote from: Dog Walker on November 06, 2010, 05:57:48 PM
Let's try a thought experiment. What would happen if, instead of removing benches, fountains, etc. from downtown, we put MORE, LOTS MORE in place. What would happen if each storefront and building had benches lining the sidewalk and had awning in place over them?
What would happen if we made all of downtown pedestrian and sitting friendly, not just a couple of parks? Would this make the bum problem worse, better or just less concentrated?
I say more people. There are more normal people than bums, how to get them to after take the bum population is my question.
Quote from: GoldenEst82 on November 12, 2010, 03:08:43 PM
I think I understand where Jerry is coming from on the bench issue.
When you want to have lunch in the plaza on a nice day, the vagrants occupy either all the shady seats, or all the sunny ones. (depending on the weather)
Also; from a female perspective, when they are all in the benches-by the corner or Laura and Duval-and you have to walk through them to go to Moca or hell, get a hot dog, it is VERY intimidating.
Hemming is not being used as it is intended, and instead is a daytime rec yard for vagrants.
Vagrants are dangerous. They are not attached or affiliated to anything here, committing vandalism, panhandling, etc, only to hop a train to the next city.
An earlier poster said it well, that Jerry is a little rough of speech and manner- but I see where he is coming from about some of the benches.
I can see where that sentiment is coming from. Yet, without benches and amenities, there would be no vagrants or tax paying residents using the space. Instead of penalizing everyone, I'd rather tackle the vagrant issue.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on November 06, 2010, 04:15:29 PM
Quote from: simms3 on November 04, 2010, 03:50:34 PM
Coolyfett...please answer my question to you and please type a somewhat reasonably intelligent post. Don't let your emotions run your thoughts.
That's a legitimate question. And the response from Coolyfett?
*crickets*chirping*
Lol Chris you are stonecold man lol, but seriously what is the question I am being asked?
Quote from: thelakelander on November 12, 2010, 05:23:23 PM
Quote from: GoldenEst82 on November 12, 2010, 03:08:43 PM
I think I understand where Jerry is coming from on the bench issue.
When you want to have lunch in the plaza on a nice day, the vagrants occupy either all the shady seats, or all the sunny ones. (depending on the weather)
Also; from a female perspective, when they are all in the benches-by the corner or Laura and Duval-and you have to walk through them to go to Moca or hell, get a hot dog, it is VERY intimidating.
Hemming is not being used as it is intended, and instead is a daytime rec yard for vagrants.
Vagrants are dangerous. They are not attached or affiliated to anything here, committing vandalism, panhandling, etc, only to hop a train to the next city.
An earlier poster said it well, that Jerry is a little rough of speech and manner- but I see where he is coming from about some of the benches.
I can see where that sentiment is coming from. Yet, without benches and amenities, there would be no vagrants or tax paying residents using the space. Instead of penalizing everyone, I'd rather tackle the vagrant issue.
Lake.....how do we tackle the vagrant "problem"?