Evening! Tonight, I'm going to take the Riverside Trolley from Riverside to Downtown for Art Walk, and back. JTA is running the trolley until Midnight tonight, and as an organization focused on transit, MetroJacksonville is going to see how JTA does with their service. Check back throughout the evening for updates!
BTW, please forgive the typos, as I did this on my iPhone.
I looked at jta's website for a map and schedule, and found this link:
http://www.jtafla.com/images/RiversideTrolley_ArtWalk.pdf
It says that the trolley will come by st johns and dancy at 6:23, and oak and Margaret at 6:28. We got to a stop at riverside and Stockton at 6:24.
Note to JTA: low res brochure using light orange font on white; not a good idea.
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Update on this 11/4/2010 6:00 PM- Looking at the map in the link, the letters for the time points don't match the map. C is supposed to be Margaret and Oak, and is really St Vincents.
BTW, the stop consists of a bench, trash can (which apparently people can't seem to put trash in), and a sign that says "Riverside Trolley", no schedule, no map. I realize a schedule on every stop for a trial service is hard, but how 'bout a map?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Urban-Issues/Art-Walk-Trolley-Live-Blog/StocktonStop/1076807774_dtvBu-L.jpg)
JTA Trolley/Bus Stop
Trolley arived at 6:31. A little late, but better than early and miss it. When I got on, the driver told us we didn't have to pay, which I don't think was charity, I think he just wanted to get people on and get moving. One lady got off when we got on (coming from Avondale), and about 10 were on already.
At Margaret and oak (one of the Five Points stops), about 25 people got on. Wow! BTW, a shout out to the lovely Carmen Godwin, executive director of RAP, handing out maps on board!
Just took a couple of pictures of the crowd to upload. Standing room only-not something JTA sees very often. Could we be seeing the start of regular service this late? Imagine, dine in Avondale, pre-game in riverside, and dance downtown?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Urban-Issues/Art-Walk-Trolley-Live-Blog/FullTrolley/1076806742_u8CZy-L.jpg)
Standing room only on the trolley.
Overhearing a conversation from someone at JTA. Apparently there will be some sort of skyway party next month
Over 30 people got on at five points, across three stops
On riverside avenue at EverBank now. Will be about a 15 minute ride from riverside to downtown. If you include parking downtown, I think driving would take longer. Not bad.
A very diverse crowd on here-Avondale families, young couples, riverside hipsters, and older folks.
The automated sign board onboard just plugged the Jacksonville Journey. Wouldn't an ETA for the end of the route be more helpful?
6:46 stop at the landing
Wow, the Laura street construction really breaks up art walk. The landing is so Disconnected from the rest of artwalk.
A great experience at Southlight gallery. Wayne Wood showcased photos of prarie style architecture, and the place had their anniversary. Going to Hemming to apparently "feed a girl". More to come...
BTW, good live music on the street. First Coast Wind Ensemble:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Urban-Issues/Art-Walk-Trolley-Live-Blog/FCWE/1076807799_y4rYh-L.jpg)
First storm trooper sighting
So...it's possible to get the vagrants out of hemming plaza, yet we only do it once a month. Why again?
So the "feed a girl" was a bit misleading. I was mislead (sorry). So, at MOCA in the theater they have this thing where this girl is sitting on the stage, while a few different guys (one at a time) go on stage and eat dinner with her. She is facing away from the audience, but she is being videotaped, and the camera is zoomed in on her face. Apparently it's some sort of experiment on blind dating (purely a guess)? I'll have an update, because I'm sure you're as lost as I am.
Okay, so here's the deal on this, and I promise I'll move on from the "feeding". So it was a Organized by a girl named Orin Heidelberg (one of the contributors of Waxonville), and it was called "Food Service". It was a cool example of performance art, where people could line up to have dinner with her and watch her eat. The people could eat as well, stare at her, purposely spill food on her (not kidding), or whatever they wanted. She filmed herself and the audience could study her reaction as she ate.
Ok, dinner time at Cafe NoLa. I'll check back in a few.
Looks like you're having fun. How is the turnout tonight?
Just checked out DK's Island, a small but cool bar and club in the former Deatry and Sons clothing store, next to Chew. Cool place, but empty.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 03, 2010, 08:44:55 PM
Looks like you're having fun. How is the turnout tonight?
Not record-breaking, but solid. Art walk ends at nine, so it's starting to slow down now, but It was pretty full until about 30 minutes ago
Looking at the Laura Street improvements. It will look nice when finished, but they really went overboard. They could have made Laura look nice for a lot less money. However, having te sidewalk next to Modis is a HUGE improvement.
We seem to be at both extremes when it comes to improvements downtown:
Street sign for Laura Street:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Urban-Issues/Art-Walk-Trolley-Live-Blog/GiantStreetSign/1076807809_zPZxM-L.jpg)
Random Girls at same sign (BTW, their comment when they saw this - wow, how much did THIS cost?)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Urban-Issues/Art-Walk-Trolley-Live-Blog/Girls/1076807810_5qwMu-L.jpg)
Now, take a look at the recently repainted stop sign outside the landing. Obviously, the same guy was not in charge of the Laura Street Improvements (take note of the old green and new black paint):
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Urban-Issues/Art-Walk-Trolley-Live-Blog/StopSign/1076807763_2rRJW-L.jpg)
Okay, time to head back to Riverside. Got to the landing at 9:14. Next trolley-9:35. For this to be sustainable, something less than 30 minute headways is essential.
BTW, the stop at the landing consists of a sign. Period. That's it.
The old Andrew Jackson statue spot is now a flat circle. It's nice, in a "random grass circle in the middle of an urban area" sort of way.
Random sewage smell inside the Landing. Awesome
Trolley showed up at 9:26. Not sure if it's 26 minutes late, or 9 minutes early. We did have to pay when we got on, unlike when we went Downtown.
Folks on the trolley (BTW, there are about 13 folks
Onboard) are talking about going to O'Brothers. Case in point why this will work-it provides carless connectivity between downtown and a residential neighborhood
We are waiting at the landing. Looks like this trolley was early, and waiting until 9:35. Actually makes sense. While we were waiting, someone tried to bring a bike on and was turned away. Some trolleys have bike racks, and some don't. With 30 minute headways, they need to be consistent with that.
And you drink all you like and not worry about a DUI
JTA has a huge "Rules of the Road" sign on board their vehicles. Nothing like making adults feel like they are 8th graders on the school bus. BTW, we pulled off at 9:36, so hats off to them for waiting until their scheduled time.
Literal quote from the automated voice on the trolley: "Hey, You can't say that! You can't say that on JTA". Folks, anyone who shouts obscenities on the trolley will not stop because of an automated recording. In fact, actual quote from hipster across the aisle, " I want to yell as many obscenities as I can because of that stupid voice". And trust me, he made a valiant attempt
Just noticed a trolley sign at one of the stops. It had a map from the old route (pre Avondale leg). The one thing worse than no map at stations-the WRONG map at stations.
Just got off at Barrs and Riverside. 17 minutes-not bad. I'll do a wrap up when I get home.
Okay, back at home after an 8 minute walk to Forbes St (4 blocks). Overall notes:
The Good:
1. Trolley was on time (or very close). It never left early, which is a cardinal sin.
2. Plenty of folks riding - Jacksonville folks will give transit a shot.
3. Folks on board the trolleys handing out maps and literature. Good call.
Minor Tweaks:
1. The Route - Riverside Avenue is probably not the best choice of street. Other than St. Vincents and Publix, there really isn't a destination along Riverside Avenue that is a transit destination. Oak would be a better choice for a Trolley or Streetcar. It serves Publix just as well, and is only a block from St. Vincents. Think about it this way - There are only two blocks south of Riverside before you get to the river. There are 11 blocks north of Riverside before you get to I-10. Even a move up to Oak would work better (and it's a little wider, because it's the historic streetcar street).
The Bad:
1. Every stop had a sign, but that's it. Hoe much more would it have really cost to put at least a map on these things. Put a logo on one side, a map on the other, and it won't cost any extra.
2. Headways - 30 minutes is too much for a short ride. The idea of short trip transit is that you can just walk to a stop and a vehicle will come. Headways need to get to at least 20 minutes, but shorter would be ideal.
3. Fare collection - Totally cash-based is a problem, especially for the "choice riders" (transit term for folks that have a car, but choose to ride transit) that JTA is looking to attract. In fact, on multiple occasions, the drivers would just flag people through as to not waste time. Search MetroJacksonville for "Parking Meters" for our thoughts on cash only Parking Meters downtown. In this generation, a credit card swipe is very technologically feasible. Further, many transit agencies are moving fare collection off-board.
Long term - where do we go from here?
I think folks would be shocked how successful this route would be with 15 minute headways (maybe 20 off peak), and running until say, 11 PM during the week, and 2AM on the weekends. That's a significant expansion, but I think tonight, a Wesnesday night, showed that people WILL use transit.
Quote from: TheProfessor on November 03, 2010, 09:33:54 PM
And you drink all you like and not worry about a DUI
A-freaking-men!
Quote from: Steve on November 03, 2010, 10:44:15 PM
The Bad:
1. Every stop had a sign, but that's it. Hoe much more would it have really cost to put at least a map on these things. Put a logo on one side, a map on the other, and it won't cost any extra.
2. Headways - 30 minutes is too much for a short ride. The idea of short trip transit is that you can just walk to a stop and a vehicle will come. Headways need to get to at least 20 minutes, but shorter would be ideal.
3. Fare collection - Totally cash-based is a problem, especially for the "choice riders" (transit term for folks that have a car, but choose to ride transit) that JTA is looking to attract. In fact, on multiple occasions, the drivers would just flag people through as to not waste time. Search MetroJacksonville for "Parking Meters" for our thoughts on cash only Parking Meters downtown. In this generation, a credit card swipe is very technologically feasible. Further, many transit agencies are moving fare collection off-board.
1) As JTA enjoys changing routes often, renaming, etc., the expense comes not in the implementation, but in the updates. I think JTA needs to include the "landmark" stops, as those don't usually change; however, offering a paper map on the interior, with accompanying schedule, would be more than sufficient until we have a stable transit system and can include a more complete map.
2) I totally agree on the headway issue!!! We need more trolleys around town in some of the shopping corridors (University to Monument on Merrill/Ft. Caroline/McCormick...Atlantic from Southside to the Wal-Mart off Monument...Atlantic from Regency to Intracoastal...etc.) that will reinforce transit as a convenience. Coupled with 10-15 minute headways, huge improvement to ridership.
3) A "pay-per-use" card that is attached, and subsequently billed, to a credit card seems reasonable and very convenient. However, if you are proposing having folks use a credit/debit card at boarding, THAT would be an unmitigated nightmare.
Thanks for documenting your experience so well. In my mind this was a success and I hope that it can be looked upon by those who refuse to ride JTA as true progress. Transit in Jacksonville is going to be improved, but it will not be done in leaps and bounds, but through small measures like this month's Art Walk. Let's see what JTA and COJ do to promote last night's success and implement it permanently.
Quote from: Steve on November 03, 2010, 10:44:15 PM
Okay, back at home after an 8 minute walk to Forbes St (4 blocks). Overall notes:
The Good:
1. Trolley was on time (or very close). It never left early, which is a cardinal sin.
2. Plenty of folks riding - Jacksonville folks will give transit a shot.
3. Folks on board the trolleys handing out maps and literature. Good call.
Minor Tweaks:
1. The Route - Riverside Avenue is probably not the best choice of street. Other than St. Vincents and Publix, there really isn't a destination along Riverside Avenue that is a transit destination. Oak would be a better choice for a Trolley or Streetcar. It serves Publix just as well, and is only a block from St. Vincents. Think about it this way - There are only two blocks south of Riverside before you get to the river. There are 11 blocks north of Riverside before you get to I-10. Even a move up to Oak would work better (and it's a little wider, because it's the historic streetcar street).
The Bad:
1. Every stop had a sign, but that's it. Hoe much more would it have really cost to put at least a map on these things. Put a logo on one side, a map on the other, and it won't cost any extra.
2. Headways - 30 minutes is too much for a short ride. The idea of short trip transit is that you can just walk to a stop and a vehicle will come. Headways need to get to at least 20 minutes, but shorter would be ideal.
3. Fare collection - Totally cash-based is a problem, especially for the "choice riders" (transit term for folks that have a car, but choose to ride transit) that JTA is looking to attract. In fact, on multiple occasions, the drivers would just flag people through as to not waste time. Search MetroJacksonville for "Parking Meters" for our thoughts on cash only Parking Meters downtown. In this generation, a credit card swipe is very technologically feasible. Further, many transit agencies are moving fare collection off-board.
Long term - where do we go from here?
I think folks would be shocked how successful this route would be with 15 minute headways (maybe 20 off peak), and running until say, 11 PM during the week, and 2AM on the weekends. That's a significant expansion, but I think tonight, a Wesnesday night, showed that people WILL use transit.
I rode the trolley last night too. As a matter of fact, I think I was on the same one as you going Downtown. The live blogging was great. It really makes you feel like you're there.
I did want to comment on a couple of your comments. I completely agree with your good comments. On the bad side, I think the reason that JTA doesn't put a map of the trolley route on the sign is $$$$. I know it is not cheap to have those signs made, not to mention having to install them. Plus, they would have to replace all 60 signs if the route changed (like it did a couple of months ago when it was extended).
As for the cash-only fare, I hear that they are going to be installing new fare boxes with smart cards (whatever you call those credit card looking things that you swipe) next year. Yay! I thought it was weird that the driver let everyone on for free too. I thought maybe it was a special thing for Art Walk, but I had to pay on the way back so who knows.
Awesome work Steve!
I jumped on the service much earlier than you b/c I was trying to go DT to make it in time for the DVI meeting(which I did not make, but that had absolutely nothing to do with JTA) and the PCT bus wasn't as full as your ride. And didn't use the return service until much later, but the bus was considerably more full than my in-town ride.
I heard the ridership was pretty decent overall.
Quote1. Trolley was on time (or very close). It never left early, which is a cardinal sin.
I think overall, the Riverside Trolley service gets pretty darn near close to the scheduled times. I
always carry the schedule when I board, and this service seems to run sufficiently on schedule... much, much better than a lot of the regular bus routes!
Quote1. Every stop had a sign, but that's it. Hoe much more would it have really cost to put at least a map on these things. Put a logo on one side, a map on the other, and it won't cost any extra.
Hopefully JTA will figure out that an end-to-end service that stops at Roosevelt Square instead of FSCJ is needed, and a map will be available of a completed route. The older maps are available at a few stops along the RS Trolley and even on some of the Bay Street Trolley signs. I agree this is something JTA needs to get caught up on.
Quote2. Headways - 30 minutes is too much for a short ride. The idea of short trip transit is that you can just walk to a stop and a vehicle will come. Headways need to get to at least 20 minutes, but shorter would be ideal.
I dont have the official numbers handy, but the afternoon service doesnt see near the ridership numbers that the peak time service does. If (hopefully WHEN) JTA decides to extend this service on Fri/Sat nights they can decrease headway times to say 20 minutes(I think at 15 like they have during lunch time they have to add a 3rd bus on the route, which could theoretically cause an increase to fares-which is bad). Maybe increase headway times to 20 minutes after 6pm for a potential weekend night service. That's a great point! I'm drafting my thoughts to send to JTA and will definately use that.
Quote3. Fare collection - Totally cash-based is a problem, especially for the "choice riders" (transit term for folks that have a car, but choose to ride transit) that JTA is looking to attract. In fact, on multiple occasions, the drivers would just flag people through as to not waste time. Search MetroJacksonville for "Parking Meters" for our thoughts on cash only Parking Meters downtown. In this generation, a credit card swipe is very technologically feasible. Further, many transit agencies are moving fare collection off-board.
Well, this is something JTA flat out has a problem with anyway. Half the time the skyway stations dont work well so you have to jump the turnstile which avoids you paying.
With that being said, cash based collection doesnt seem to be a problem for the beaches trolley or the lunch time crowd for the Riverside Trolley. So no doubt JTA doesnt see this to be a problem.
Since you're a tech guy... wouldn't wifi be required to run an onboard credit card swipe? It still has to be plugged into a modem in some way, right?
As someone that uses the RS Trolley at least a few times a week, Id love being able to use a credit card... but I can't recall being in Chicago, NYC, San Fran, or Seattle and being able to use an on board credit swipe for busses, BART, etc (usually you have to use the credit card at a station to buy a pass).
QuoteLong term - where do we go from here?
If anything, the beaches trolley service shows JTA that people will ride late night weekend service(headways are in fact 35 minutes for that weekend service). That's really the next logical step for the Riverside route.
I really tried to take Allan Devault's challenge and get a stamp at all of the restaurants, but just flat out didnt have the time nor drinking capacity to do all of them.
Something that would work very well IMO for the Riverside Trolley(and something I think directly led to the decrease in ridership for the Beaches Trolley after it stopped being free) would be akin to that.
Merchants could offer direct transit-based incentives. This is something I want to speak to the powers that be about. I think they dropped the ball with the beaches service, missed out on a great opportunity, and then wondered why the beaches merchants stopped giving them advertising dollars.
There are many ways to solve the problem of fare collection. An iTunes style one is probably the best (account tied to a credit card that gets billed like once a week or something). You could just have a swipe card. You don't need WiFi, you can use the cell network for something like that, as the data would be extremely lightweight.
Doing a true CC auth is probably not feasible (I've never seen a transit agency do that). Better yet, tie it in with parking garages, etc downtown that charge for parking, and offer incentives for using, etc. There are ways to solve this problem, we just can't figure it out.