TIGER II Grant Winners Announced; No Money for Jax
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1057708794_zaf7D-M.jpg)
Emphasizing limited investments in small and mid-sized communities, the U.S. Department of Transportation has finally revealed the list of projects that will be funded under the $600 million TIGER II grant program. Unfortunately, nothing in Jacksonville made the cut.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-oct-tiger-ii-grant-winners-announced-no-money-for-jax
What was Money NEEDED for in Jax?? They did try to get some money right? Will there be a Tiger III?
With the GOP making big gains next week in Congress, we can expect a lot FEWER opportunities like TIGER grants in the future. The window of opportunity is closing very fast.
Quote from: Coolyfett on October 28, 2010, 06:19:40 AM
What was Money NEEDED for in Jax?? They did try to get some money right? Will there be a Tiger III?
well as the article says, Jax. applied for several things...a planning grant for commuter rail and a construction grant for the transportation center among them....fact is Florida got 3 projects this time (none in the much larger first round of TIGEr grants)...
And no, there will not be a TIGER III...at least not with the stimulus funds....they've all been used up
Yea I didnt read the article, just the heading. So Jax didnt get anything again....what else is new...
Im not surprised. Nobody takes Jacksonville or our needs seriously. Its kinda depressing. If we want things done, we have to make them happen because nobody cares to assist us. Weve seen that time and time again.
I wonder how the information Jax submitted stacks up with some of the winners? I've scanned through a few and many of the winning proposals look very far along. If you're going to attempt to compete for limited federal money, you're going to have to bring your A-game.
Here are a few links to Salt Lake City's winning Sugar House streetcar project. You can tell from the level of detail on this project, that SLC put their local money where their mouth is well in advance of this TIGER II stuff. Thus, when the funding opportunity presented itself, they had a "shovel ready" project ready to go.
http://www.rideuta.com/projects/sugarhouseTransitStudy/default.aspx
http://www.rideuta.com/files/Sugarhouse_Streetcar_Final_Plans.pdf
http://www.rideuta.com/files/DevelopmentPlansandRenderrings.pdf
http://www.rideuta.com/files/RidershipVMTandGHGMethodolog.pdf
http://www.rideuta.com/files/SugarHousefinanceplanUpdated2-10FINAL.pdf
The Planning Grants didn't have to be "shovel ready" as far as I know the JRTC Phase I is at 90% design, it would have been "shovel ready".
Does anyone know if there is documentation on the quality of life benefits of the JRTC?
For example...
1. What would be its economic impact?
2. How many people would it employ?
3. What would be the impact on greenhouse gas emissions or VMT?
4. What would be the average annual wage of those employed at the JRTC?
5. What type of ancillary businesses (indirect job creation) would the JRTC be expected to attract?
I assume if this information exist, it would have been packaged within the submittal to make the project better stand out amongst the competition?
Also, if it is out there, its something that would be a great marketing tool for this project to the local population and city leadership.
LAKE, the A game is 100% of our apparent failure. Bravo to JTA for applying for these grants, but who knew? Did Joe Lunch-Bucket even know we were planning a commuter rail study? Did anyone else? Application is not enough, a full press lobby effort is needed to push it over the top. The City Council should have been hounding the HELL out of our federal representatives. The Times-Union should have been pushed and pulled by the city into running no less then a dozen or more articles, ditto the TV news stations. In short, these projects should have been the buzz of the city for months and months.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock has a great point. Many of these project awards are more political than anything. We have a pretty weak federal delegation. Who knows, it is disappointing non the less. I am still hoping the Amtrak project gets funded, no word on it.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 28, 2010, 09:28:02 AM
I wonder how the information Jax submitted stacks up with some of the winners? I've scanned through a few and many of the winning proposals look very far along. If you're going to attempt to compete for limited federal money, you're going to have to bring your A-game.
Agreed. I looked at the TIGER I grant application for the Mercer Corridor Project in Seattle and it was very sharp. It looked like it probably took months to put together. I would like to see the applications that we submitted for the projects in Jax. Does anyone have a copy of those?
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TMmGY9BBYcI/AAAAAAAADBg/rlSjAogTku0/s800/End_of_track.jpg)
Absolutely STEPHEN, but projects with such city making abilities MUST be bigger then the us-v-them mind set at some of the doors within JTA. The fact that someone within JTA did the job we hired them for, should be enough for a joint assault on the citadels of Washington. The leadership of JTA was legally complete when the Post Office hit a cancellation on the envelope containing the applications and the moral monkey was officially transferred to "we the people..." MJ did a few pieces on these grants, but who else? What else? Did one single city councilman/woman pick up a phone or hit send on a message to DC? Did the TU call Mica, or Crenshaw, or Brown? How much better would this have turned out had the very people running for reelection seen a ground swell of support rising on an issue they could take credit for pushing over the top? Did ANYONE DO ANYTHING?
Time to call Mica, and work our way through the list all the way down to the janitors closet at channel 4. Certainly JTA could have buried the stupid axe and thrown a PR type into the fray to lobby for support but we didn't get that either, there is certainly enough blame to go around the whole room and a life lesson for the city.
OCKLAWAHA
haha. Great pic Ock. The problem is, at least for JRTC, this has been a project dragging on for years and there seems to be no support, not even from the City or the State. So why should we expect our Washington delegation to support it. At least there is support and talk of commuter rail.
I thought one more of my infamous photos was appropriate. You are correct, however, not even the public is really talking of commuter rail, nobody seems to know. We can't allow this to happen again - ever... Picnics, shows, meet the public, sponsor kiddie events, demonstrate equipment, news, news, news, whatever it takes for that full court press. The reconstructed RDC builder would probably send us a car tomorrow if we wanted to show or demonstrate it...
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: thelakelander on October 28, 2010, 09:41:14 AM
Does anyone know if there is documentation on the quality of life benefits of the JRTC?
For example...
1. What would be its economic impact?
2. How many people would it employ?
3. What would be the impact on greenhouse gas emissions or VMT?
4. What would be the average annual wage of those employed at the JRTC?
5. What type of ancillary businesses (indirect job creation) would the JRTC be expected to attract?
I assume if this information exist, it would have been packaged within the submittal to make the project better stand out amongst the competition?
Also, if it is out there, its something that would be a great marketing tool for this project to the local population and city leadership.
having been involved with several TIGER II grant apps (for perhaps not-so-worthy projects) these estimates are pretty much fabricated.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on October 28, 2010, 09:14:17 AM
Im not surprised. Nobody takes Jacksonville or our needs seriously. Its kinda depressing. If we want things done, we have to make them happen because nobody cares to assist us. Weve seen that time and time again.
Jax doesn't even take our own needs seriously. I spent a couple weeks in Charlotte a couple years ago, and I was inundated with announcements about their improvements and projects going on. It was beyond civic pride. It was a confidence in the city that they were doing something great and were going to be something great, regardless of what it took to get there. Jax has none of this.
We need to build up the public sentiment and make the city actually believe that we can accomplish some of the things this forum talks about. The members of this forum are great, but Stephen can't open 50 Boomtowns, Ennis can't design and develop Springfield by himself, and Ock probably can't lay 30 miles of track connecting DT and the beach. We need to inspire our people to do their part to make Jax better. Support local restaurants, buy local products, invest in local art, and support the core.
This is what I think we need from our mayor and leadership. A champion for the community with the courage to stand up to big businesses and developers and bring us back to the core.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 28, 2010, 11:45:40 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 28, 2010, 09:41:14 AM
Does anyone know if there is documentation on the quality of life benefits of the JRTC?
For example...
1. What would be its economic impact?
2. How many people would it employ?
3. What would be the impact on greenhouse gas emissions or VMT?
4. What would be the average annual wage of those employed at the JRTC?
5. What type of ancillary businesses (indirect job creation) would the JRTC be expected to attract?
I assume if this information exist, it would have been packaged within the submittal to make the project better stand out amongst the competition?
Also, if it is out there, its something that would be a great marketing tool for this project to the local population and city leadership.
having been involved with several TIGER II grant apps (for perhaps not-so-worthy projects) these estimates are pretty much fabricated.
Just like the argument of BRT being a suitable alternative to LRT. However, when it comes to selling a concept and getting it pushed through, marketing becomes just as important as the technical side of things.
For the third time in a week I have heard someone refer to Jax as "the biggest small-town" or some such variation. I have to wonder if there is fear in the community about becoming too "city-fied" with a big ol' downtown and speedy trains and real integration/diversity...
I ask you Cap'n Z (and the others), what is the "core" to which we are returning? Does anyone in Jax have an honest idea what its citizens today are seeking as a city identity? Charlotte progressed because that population embraced the idea of "city-life" and leadership took them there. What is Jax embracing?
A turnaround in Jacksonville will have to encompass more than just DVI and revitalizing the urban core. The city is 885 sq mi, not just the 20 blocks Jacksonville was in 1822.
I'm well on-board with a full out marketing blitz for JTA, COJ, and anything else that isn't as bad as so many tend to think...we just need a message, then a plan...but first we need an identity.
Just out of curiousity, do you have a vision of Jacksonville should be? Could be the new Switzerland of the South or Rail Hub of Southeastern United States. Could be Port of the South or the Worlds Biggest Taco Stand, could be the Medical Center of Florida.....I am open for idea's........whatcha got?
Every time I land in Jax, I love that all you see are billowy, dense green treetops and then, far off in the distance, a lone click of buildings starts to emerge. We already have the largest urban park system, a built-in focus! I would prefer the parks/preserves be connected by public transportation and walkable paths where appropriate. For me, the city would remain on a low, personal scale; no more sky-scrapers, and the giant office buildings need to be shrouded by live oaks and magnolias (maybe some kudzu). I think the major neighborhoods (Arlington, Mandarin, Southside, etc.) could be distinct little enclaves with specific flair where you can truly live within a 5-mile radius and not have to drive across town to the big-box and are anchored by public libraries and civic centers/museums/higher-learning institutions, plus it's unique ecological feature. Neighborhood schools where students ride bikes or walk instead of buses. The economy is driven by transportation and logistics companies, educational institutions and research facilities along with great medical options for the snowbirds and half-backs. Bucolic, natural, unobtrusive, with a dash of modern and pinch of progressive.
Jacksonville should be the place you want to: have a picnic or throw a frisbee; cruise casually down the river on a hot day; crisp to a golden brown on beautiful beaches; meander down a sun-dappled sidewalk, under an archway of craggy oak branches and drooping Spanish moss: sit on your porch and hear the neighborhood kids giggling on a playground. A city that knows how to play with what they're given. In short, America's backyard. =)
I just signed up as a member to your forum - and am excited to know that there are some people passionate about improving Jacksonville. I know I could probably find the answer to this question if I search past topics: Is there a collective effort amongst members to take some of these ideas to the city leaders? I would love to see a light rail system in Jacksonville (if for no other reason than it would be really cool). I would also like to see us (Jacksonville) stop giving away our public land downtown (shipyards, southside generating station to name a few). I also love bike riding and wish I could do it more safely. I am willing to talk to council members and board members about these things - and would be even happier to do it as part of a group. Sorry if I went too far away from the topic.
Welcome Doug. Every issue and question you raised has been researched, written about and discussed here. You have joined the right forum if you are interested in these subjects and want to be part of the solution. I encourage you to read some of the Metro Jacksonvile generated articles regarding the subjects you mentioned... you will be glad you did! :)
Quote from: Singejoufflue on October 28, 2010, 08:16:26 PM
Jacksonville should be the place you want to: have a picnic or throw a frisbee; cruise casually down the river on a hot day; crisp to a golden brown on beautiful beaches; meander down a sun-dappled sidewalk, under an archway of craggy oak branches and drooping Spanish moss: sit on your porch and hear the neighborhood kids giggling on a playground. A city that knows how to play with what they're given. In short, America's backyard. =)
Well, unfortunately we can't go back to the world of F. Scott Fitzgerald in the early 1920s when cities were awash with money. But at this moment we need leaders who can inspire and instill a love for Jax. I remember when NYC was an armpit before the leaders came up with the "I love NY" theme. The other problem is that we all scream bloody murder whenever there is mention of a new tax targeted to some worthy endeavor. We gotta help ourselves.
QuoteThe other problem is that we all scream bloody murder whenever there is mention of a new tax targeted to some worthy endeavor.
I think there might be less screaming if a tax was indeed targeted and finite. For example... a small increase in a local tax or service for a defined period of time and the money used for that specific project. Once the defined period is expired or the money collected for the project the tax discontinues.
The reason people "scream" is that the tax never goes away and our friendly government uses the money for some other purpose and then asks for more...
I agree bridge troll after all jacksonville voted for the better jacksonville plan . that plan was pretty progressive more taxes for a quality of life . what you have to have is a strong leader selling it to the public mayor delaney was able to do that .
The BJP is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. I would consider even that plan a bit too broad and ambitious. A smaller more well defined targeted goal might induce quicker results. For example... a Trolley connecting Riverside with Downtown and Springfield. It will cost x amount of dollars and we can raise those funds in 3 years with a 1% sales tax or JEA tax. After three years the tax ends the trolley is built and a new well defined and targeted goal is identified.
QuoteI agree bridge troll after all jacksonville voted for the better jacksonville plan . that plan was pretty progressive more taxes for a quality of life . what you have to have is a strong leader selling it to the public mayor delaney was able to do that .
Agree. There are countless examples in the history of the city where everyone has rallied around a particular cause. The cause must be 100% clear, it must be viewed as beneficial, and it must be sold by very strong leadership.
Exactly. The reason people complain about taxes is they seem to disappear into the black hole of government and the folks who actually pay the taxes do not seem to have any control over what they are buying. Those funds cannot be diverted to some new "pet" project. The best part is... the tax ends at the end of the designated time. People at that time would be able to say... "That worked well lets continue for 3 years and do x and x"... OR... "that sure sucked and you better do things better before we approve something like that again."
+1
Great ideas - I love the concept of a full court press to our governing organizations (jta, city council, mayor, etc.). I'm sure that some of them read this forum, but they don't have to answer to it directly. What is the next step? Have any of the Metro Jacksonville members taken this message to them directly in an organized, focused approach? I've been in front of these groups for other professional matters (civil engineering/land development projects) but never lobbying for the types of projects discussed on this forum. If this group is planning such an effort I would like to be a part of it.
This may be a bit of a digression but on a macro level this Administration (and the one before it) is all over the world, notably in Iraq and Afghanistan, building cities, repairing cities, and throwing billions at foreign governments and still can't afford to help our own cities. You need to look no further than New Orleans years after Katrina and the city is still blighted and falling apart. Only when it comes to helping our own the deficit and taxes become concerns especially with the GOP. Compared with some other cities Jax may not be doing too bad. But there is something wrong with this picture. >:(
What make you people think jacksonville can qualify for this stuff...with the leadership in this city...we'll never see it...our local conservatives will make sure of that...none of this will change until they are out and replaced by some forward think evolved individuals...
Garden guy......"Local Conservatives" have nothing to do with it! Republicans have been at the helm for the past 16 years and I look where we are at now! Current Administration has shown a severe lack of leadership, vision and accountability and once again.........I look where we are at now! We keep paying for things that do not benefit the whole, just a select few and I say it is time to vote the incumbents, the GOB Networkers and the sycophants out!