Urban Construction Update: October 2010
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1060784520_yBbBa-M.jpg)
A look at the status of various projects under construction in and around Downtown Jacksonville during the month of September.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-oct-urban-construction-update-october-2010
Great pics.
Urban Core Construction.
Urban Core Streetcar?
I'm just left with the empty feeling that so many of you have for better transportation and the Q&A with mayoral candidate Jim Bailey last night and seeing these pics my question to Lake and Ock is. Where is the streetcar going?
Did anyone see 60 minutes recently and the lost footage of a streetcar in San Francisco before the earthquake?
The point is that with the Prime Osborn being considered for a return to a rail transportation hub the thought of a streetcar line going from there and straight down Bay street all the way to the stadium. But now that straight shot will be altered with the statue Of Andrew Jackson sitting in the middle of a roundabout in front of the Landing.
Would the streetcar start east of the statue and thus take out the state roads that could complicate the permitting process?
What are the corridors or other areas that the streetcar would work. Its a city council and mayoral campaign issue and this is the time for the COJ to identify and also elect candidates that want this to happen. I know there are more threads on this issue. What does JTA say for best location?
Quote from: Noone on October 26, 2010, 06:19:21 AM
Great pics.
Urban Core Construction.
Urban Core Streetcar?
I'm just left with the empty feeling that so many of you have for better transportation and the Q&A with mayoral candidate Jim Bailey last night and seeing these pics my question to Lake and Ock is. Where is the streetcar going?
The initial streetcar line will most likely run from Five Points to Downtown via Riverside Avenue/Forest St/Park St/Water Street/Newnan Street. This corridor is included in COJ's 2030 Mobility Plan, North Florida TPOs 2035 LRTP and JTA's prefeasibility study. The potential Mobility Plan/Fee even has things set up to distribute money its way for future funding. To really get things going, what is really needs is a mayor to step up and be a cheerleader for it.
QuoteBut now that straight shot will be altered with the statue Of Andrew Jackson sitting in the middle of a roundabout in front of the Landing.
Would the streetcar start east of the statue and thus take out the state roads that could complicate the permitting process?
That puney little Jackson statue won't stop anything. Tracks can be put in right around it. Now a lack a vision by city officials could certainly delay things. The stars are being aligned to move such a project forward. It would be a shame if we don't take advantage because of officials having a lack of knowledge towards fixed mass transit and its impact on economic development, job creation and downtown revitalization.
QuoteWhat are the corridors or other areas that the streetcar would work. Its a city council and mayoral campaign issue and this is the time for the COJ to identify and also elect candidates that want this to happen. I know there are more threads on this issue. What does JTA say for best location?
A plan is in place. As I mentioned earlier, its now a part of the 2030 Mobility Plan and North Florida TPO's 2035 LRTP. What we really need is our leaders to pick up those plans and start reading them.
Thanks for the explanation.
What is going into the 5th & LIberty building?
Is the 200 Riverside project just the hotel or is it the Law office building that has been proposed for eons too?
5th & Liberty is a residential loft conversion. 200 Riverside's first phase includes the office building and hotel.
another way to parttially fund the streetcar would be to use downtown TIF funds....apparently they have been running around $10 million a year, which has primarily been used for riverwalk and streetscape projects.
^That's a pretty good option. As Philip Randolph Boulevard and Main Street has proven, Streetscapes can only get you so far when done alone. It may be time to use such a resource, along with others, to get a true economic revitalization and stimulating project off the ground.
What are they doing at Treaty Oak Park?
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 26, 2010, 08:19:27 AM
another way to parttially fund the streetcar would be to use downtown TIF funds....apparently they have been running around $10 million a year, which has primarily been used for riverwalk and streetscape projects.
What dose TIF stand for?
Tax Increment Financing Fund
You can learn more about it by clicking on this link and scrolling down to page 141 (section 10.5.4).
http://www.coj.net/NR/rdonlyres/ecj5k7tvfi4vknrrzebqchtvky6nc3h4bmulm3v6sqoincv7wvvc3mz66sh2sjyjwqiofoqwj23ts6wvl2k6nunxy2g/TCEA+Implementation+Plan.pdf
Next month should include the expansion of Casbah in Avondale.
I'm always waiting impatiently for these updates!
Can't wait to see some serious movement on the 200 Riverside project. Also, looks like the Wolfson's tower should start to go vertical soon.
This update was a bit more lively than the last few. There was also a nice balance between all of the core neighborhoods. The San Marco streetscape is taking forever. I guarantee at least 3 people will hurt themselves while trying to climb AJ this weekend.
Can't wait for Mojo's, Hurricanes, Pulp, and Friendship Fountain to be up and running. Also, great news about the Casbah expansion, that's been in the works for about a year.
Any update on what the city will do with the land in front of the new courthouse? Are they taking out the curved road and putting in a park???
that carwash looks like crap. way to rally for nothing.
Before:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/752699999_exZRg-M.jpg)
So far:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1060780214_yrdca-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1060780136_WxhQJ-M.jpg)
I see a huge improvement over the vacant unkept property that was there before. Once they get around to addressing the parking lot and landscaping, the before and after will look like night and day.
Any idea what the timeframe is for addressing the parking lot and landscaping? "Huge improvement" is a stretch at this point......
I don't know what people were expecting. Its an affordable reuse of the property. Outside of the equipment already invested, there never was going to be millions invested in exterior facade enhancements. Anyway, from the images, it appears that parking and landscaping are moving forward. The image above indicates that some pavement has been removed.
Proposed final look:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/752700350_FXAYA-L.jpg)
Hightower, I'd repeat the advocating process we took with this project on every blighted abandoned property along Main, if the result is cleaning them up and bringing activity back to these properties.
Just let me know when the guys with the market at 8th & Hubbard are willing to take a second chance at opening their spot at 7th & Main. I'd be willing to help make sure that's something that benefits the neighborhood as well.
Why is everyone so mal-content with 'just progress?' JC, it takes time and money and right now, not everyone has both to spare, at least it is still being worked on.
Maybe when you go to sleep tonight and wish really hard, the instantaneous-gratification-fairies will come and eveything will be perfect when you wake up the next morning.
Wow lot of cunstruction! O.O
Hey there strangers! The improvements look great! Glad to see there are buisnesses moving in around the courthouse and I LOVE the St. John's and Riverside improvements. Really looks nice. Can't wait to get back there and see everything in person. I especially like the roundabout. Is that the same AJ statue that was in front of the old courthouse by the river?
Just get the darned thing open! plant the trees add the cafe and tables with umbrellas and I am sure it will look great.
Quote from: hightowerlover on October 26, 2010, 10:07:58 AM
that carwash looks like crap. way to rally for nothing.
i agree. it was always going to look like crap. I am not sure why anyone is surprised.
Interesting. The CourtHouse does not look at bad as people said it would, looks kinda shiny. No new high raises huh?? When is the last time a new Statue was created?? anywhere? Northbank, Southbank, Springfield??
The carwash attracts the wrong crowd. Have u ever seen people at a carwash? Think of how many quarter machines are goin to be out there?
Quote from: Pottsburg on October 26, 2010, 11:55:45 AM
The carwash attracts the wrong crowd. Have u ever seen people at a carwash? Think of how many quarter machines are goin to be out there?
Totally. Luckily, rich people's cars never get dirty, so they don't have to go to terrible places like this. Go by Bubble's carwash and tell me you don't feel safe.
I plan to switch to this place as soon as they open, so hopefully I don't bring down the quality of the clientele too badly.
Quote from: stephendare on October 26, 2010, 12:10:50 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 26, 2010, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: Pottsburg on October 26, 2010, 11:55:45 AM
The carwash attracts the wrong crowd. Have u ever seen people at a carwash? Think of how many quarter machines are goin to be out there?
Totally. Luckily, rich people's cars never get dirty, so they don't have to go to terrible places like this. Go by Bubble's carwash and tell me you don't feel safe.
I plan to switch to this place as soon as they open, so hopefully I don't bring down the quality of the clientele too badly.
Its the most asinine discussion that I think Ive ever heard.
Really?
The 'wrong crowd'? At the Car Wash. This has to be the dumbest idea ever expressed on these boards.
no. this is typical Springfield resident crap.
lake........I am somewhat confused as to why a "Prefeasability Study" would be needed for that potential rail corridor? JTA should have that information allready via the 2030 City plan and the TPO plan 2035! This would lead me to believe "ANOTHER" study will have to be done and seems quite alot of money down the tubes? Consultants making out, taxpayers paying one more time!
The JTA Streetcar Prefeasibility Study was done before the concept was added to the TPO's 2035 LRTP and the 2030 Multimodal Plans.
This car wash crap is the exact same setiment that has kept Springfield back for so long. People are just expecting these vacant businesses to turn into Starbucks, Panera and Outback overnight. They are forgetting the intermediate phase.
Before the Margaret Street corridor got Zoe's, Einstein's, Publix, Al's and now Chew (Asuming that last one does happen), they went through a phase where the retail shops weren't quite as polished as they are now. That phase has to happen for the neighborhood to properly develop. If it doesn't, we will just get a bunch of real estate speculators, and things will bo good as long as the real estate market is booming.
I am very impressed with the progress outr city is making.. Especially anywhere near and in Downtown. Heck san Marco and Riverside are close enought to downtown to make an impact as well. Once the Trio gets rolling AND we get Bailey (ha ha he's my favorite) in office, I see Jacksonville (downtown in particular) taking off!
One question, what ever happen to farah and farah's plan to build a headquarters by the courthouse. Did they just can the idea because of the delays of the courthouse being built? And I know it was once said that the old JEA tower was going to be converted in two law offices, etc etc. Are those ideas still in the works?
There you go with your bigotry again. So much for keeping the discussion civil. Go hangout or drive by any carwash our side of the St Johns tell me you don't see people begging for money or needles on the ground. The later being in extreme situations.
Pottsburg, that's a huge stereotype. I know of several carwashes where you won't get panhandled or see needles on the ground. For example, the one in St. Nicholas is a well run establishment. Like anything else, the upkeep of a property comes down to the owner's desire.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/814696384_khUyB-M.jpg)
^+1
Same with Charles and George by Ortega. My belief is that the car wash doesn't bring the negative behavior, the neighborhood does. Let the man run his car wash, and call it a day.
Also, this will be the closest full car wash from my house in Riverside. I will be there when it opens.
Car washes do have a bad rep. I wouldn't mind a small self sufficient one. The man who is opening the carwash has secondhand equipment from a previous carwash. I know Dare has spoken to the guy but he doesn't have the good of Springfield in mind.
Oh Lake, stop photoshopping these car wash pictures. You know there should be four drug addicts huddled around a barrel fire in that picture. A professional computer services advertisement..?? The soliciting there is out of control!!! That place needs to be condemned!
[turns off extreme sarcasm... sort of]
A better example would be Jaguar Car wash. It's 2 blocks north of (gasp!!) EMERSON and PHILIPS!! There are rarely, if ever, bums or panhandlers on the premises. The employees couldn't be nicer, and it's one of the nicest businesses on the block.
That might make a nice photo thread: The Carwashes of Duval County.
I guess we will just have to wait an see. If the thing ever gets built. Which is still in debate.
I take my wife's car to the car wash. I am the wrong crowd? Damn this is depressing. I guess I knew the people who use the private car detailers looked down on me but to see it in print damn.
Anyone know what they are doing to Treaty Oak Park?
They are fixing it up to make it a more enjoyable public space.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 26, 2010, 01:38:13 PM
Oh Lake, stop photoshopping these car wash pictures. You know there should be four drug addicts huddled around a barrel fire in that picture. A professional computer services advertisement..?? The soliciting there is out of control!!! That place needs to be condemned!
[turns off extreme sarcasm... sort of]
A better example would be Jaguar Car wash. It's 2 blocks north of (gasp!!) EMERSON and PHILIPS!! There are rarely, if ever, bums or panhandlers on the premises. The employees couldn't be nicer, and it's one of the nicest businesses on the block.
That might make a nice photo thread: The Carwashes of Duval County.
yes I love the Jaguar Carwash. I actually go there reguarly. And you are correct, no bums or prostitutes hanging out there. LOL They have good service also.
Quote from: Jason on October 26, 2010, 09:42:35 AM
I'm always waiting impatiently for these updates!
Can't wait to see some serious movement on the 200 Riverside project. Also, looks like the Wolfson's tower should start to go vertical soon.
Just passed by the Wolfsons site. The base of the crane is being put into place.
I was just near 200 riverside 10 men and a backhoe working.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
The JTA Streetcar Prefeasibility Study was done before the concept was added to the TPO's 2035 LRTP and the 2030 Multimodal Plans.
OK......but that is a "Prefeasibility Study" which I would interpet to be ....prior to a Feasibility Study! I am somewhat confused as to why both would have to be done first and look at things from a dollar point of view! I would think one should not be done or is not needed so would question the dollars spent for both! So the next thing I would ask is ..........what date was the Prefeasibility Study done.........that is if you know?
Quote from: CS Foltz on October 26, 2010, 02:32:38 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
The JTA Streetcar Prefeasibility Study was done before the concept was added to the TPO's 2035 LRTP and the 2030 Multimodal Plans.
OK......but that is a "Prefeasibility Study" which I would interpet to be ....prior to a Feasibility Study! I am somewhat confused as to why both would have to be done first and look at things from a dollar point of view! I would think one should not be done or is not needed so would question the dollars spent for both! So the next thing I would ask is ..........what date was the Prefeasibility Study done.........that is if you know?
The prefeasibility study was a cursory study to outline potential streetcar districts and define district guidelines. The feasibility study will begin to identify routes and funding sources. It will also have a public involvment component. The feasibility study is the first step in the FTA process.
Thanks cline........makes sense from two different viewpoints..........much thanks for the explanation!
(http://www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/Tampa_traffic_circle_2_sm2.jpg)
TAMPA STREETCAR
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Thomas_circle_December_1943.JPG)
FRESNO?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2856060189_30059ea63a.jpg)
PCC Car and Trolley Coach at Christie Loop in 1951.
Toronto: The picture you’re seeing a PCC car and Trolley Coach that’s provided an integrated Transit service at Christie Loop in 1951, Located on the north east corner of Dupont and Christie Street, The loop now it’s a parking area for Western Bakeries. On the left it’s the Planters Peanuts factory while the building in the centre is the Lambeth lodge for Senior citizen, replaced by modern buildings a few years ago
(http://www.pittsburghtransit.info/1788.jpg)
PITTSBURGH
(http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/59D9A2DD-AAB9-4F0D-BC38-3E0EDF36D32A/F10284.jpg)
COLUMBUS, COLUMBUS CIRCLE
(http://www.megomuseum.com/startrek/images/mego_blank.jpg)
JACKSONVILLE ANDREW JACKSON LOOP
OCKLAWAHA
alright
Okay, let's play, A "rich guy" drives into town to the VA clinic from WGV after WEEKS of freaking hospitalization... Same old shit on Main?
HELL NO!
Damn near wrecked his car when he saw the car wash, not to mention the several buildings and face lifts done on the East Side of the street. Along with the new lighting, and streetscape, this seems to be exactly the desired effect. Nice job boys and girls...
Yeah, I too am with Lake and Stephendare on this one.
OCKLAWAHA
Sorry, I guess I cannot have an opinion other than what you want me to spew. I guess I am too mainstream suburban to appreciate the "grit" of a crappy looking car wash. I'm sorry, I like to go somewhere that looks clean when I clean my car.
...Maybe the owners would appreciate an unfiltered view of why I don't use their business. Oh wait, I'm being asinine.
Quote from: hightowerlover on October 26, 2010, 03:37:49 PM
Sorry, I guess I cannot have an opinion other than what you want me to spew. I guess I am too mainstream suburban to appreciate the "grit" of a crappy looking car wash. I'm sorry, I like to go somewhere that looks clean when I clean my car.
...Maybe the owners would appreciate an unfiltered view of why I don't use their business. Oh wait, I'm being asinine.
Stephen, me thinks you're up to bat...OCKLAWAHA
Not that it should make this list, but I did want to give mention that the gas station at Post and King got a paint job this week. Nothing special, but I drive by it every day and it gives the whole place a cleaner appearance. I am note sure if this is anything more than simple upkeep, but I appreciate the cleaner look.
Your kind of right Hightower. Our options are belittled an mocked if you don't agree with certain people.
I still can't get over the Taj-ma-courthouse. To think what we could have had. What an abortion.
Didn't the owner of the car wash say he was going to be open in a few months? It seems like it has been a while. What is taking so long?
Quote from: cline on October 26, 2010, 04:51:38 PM
Didn't the owner of the car wash say he was going to be open in a few months? It seems like it has been a while. What is taking so long?
Speaking from experience, probably a mix of money, permitting and hassling. My guess is that it will open up before 8th and Pearl or Dunkin Donuts does.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 02:11:40 PM
Quote from: Jason on October 26, 2010, 09:42:35 AM
.............. Also, looks like the Wolfson's tower should start to go vertical soon.
Just passed by the Wolfsons site. The base of the crane is being put into place.
You have to go down before you can go up. More caissons ....... more concrete. Both tower crane foundations and base sections are installed.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 26, 2010, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: Pottsburg on October 26, 2010, 11:55:45 AM
The carwash attracts the wrong crowd. Have u ever seen people at a carwash? Think of how many quarter machines are goin to be out there?
Totally. Luckily, rich people's cars never get dirty, so they don't have to go to terrible places like this. Go by Bubble's carwash and tell me you don't feel safe.
I plan to switch to this place as soon as they open, so hopefully I don't bring down the quality of the clientele too badly.
I agree, if the Uptown crown uses it more than thugs, thugs wont want to hang around because then theyd be the minority.
Quote from: Pottsburg on October 26, 2010, 04:35:59 PM
Your kind of right Hightower. Our options are belittled an mocked if you don't agree with certain people.
+1
Quote from: Mr. Charleston on October 26, 2010, 04:38:47 PM
I still can't get over the Taj-ma-courthouse. To think what we could have had. What an abortion.
I believe that is in Tallahassee
Quote from: arteest on October 26, 2010, 12:24:11 PM
Quote from: stephendare on October 26, 2010, 12:10:50 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 26, 2010, 11:59:49 AM
Quote from: Pottsburg on October 26, 2010, 11:55:45 AM
The carwash attracts the wrong crowd. Have u ever seen people at a carwash? Think of how many quarter machines are goin to be out there?
Totally. Luckily, rich people's cars never get dirty, so they don't have to go to terrible places like this. Go by Bubble's carwash and tell me you don't feel safe.
I plan to switch to this place as soon as they open, so hopefully I don't bring down the quality of the clientele too badly.
Its the most asinine discussion that I think Ive ever heard.
Really?
The 'wrong crowd'? At the Car Wash. This has to be the dumbest idea ever expressed on these boards.
no. this is typical Springfield resident crap.
Hey! I like the new Springfield swagger, when Uptowner say snobby things on this forum I always smile.
Quote from: Pottsburg on October 26, 2010, 04:35:59 PM
Your kind of right Hightower. Our options are belittled an mocked if you don't agree with certain people.
Its forum life...dont let it get to ya. I think the car wash looks crappy to, but Im kinda a snob like that.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 26, 2010, 09:49:50 PM
Quote from: Pottsburg on October 26, 2010, 04:35:59 PM
Your kind of right Hightower. Our options are belittled an mocked if you don't agree with certain people.
+1
Or just suck it up and stop being softies. ;D This isn't the place for the meek and holy. You have to show up with your boxing gloves.
Quote from: cline on October 26, 2010, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on October 26, 2010, 02:32:38 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
The JTA Streetcar Prefeasibility Study was done before the concept was added to the TPO's 2035 LRTP and the 2030 Multimodal Plans.
OK......but that is a "Prefeasibility Study" which I would interpet to be ....prior to a Feasibility Study! I am somewhat confused as to why both would have to be done first and look at things from a dollar point of view! I would think one should not be done or is not needed so would question the dollars spent for both! So the next thing I would ask is ..........what date was the Prefeasibility Study done.........that is if you know?
The prefeasibility study was a cursory study to outline potential streetcar districts and define district guidelines. The feasibility study will begin to identify routes and funding sources. It will also have a public involvment component. The feasibility study is the first step in the FTA process.
I would love to see the funding sources for Streetcar include a large portion of the 100mil from the BJP fund we have heard the JTA is still pursuing. The 10 mil a year from the TIF funds tufsu suggested earlier is another excellent idea. I would like these local funds to fast track the Streetcar line and go for FTA funds for commuter rail.
By Job I believe you've got it Jeffery!
OCKLAWAHA
A way occurs to me for selling or fixed rail investments to the masses. Start with the streetcar line using local sources then as a way to put our money were our mouth is we could dedicate half of the increased tax revenue from development and increased property value in proximity to the new transit line to transit expansion. In theory this would continue to take place and continue to grow and pay for the system. I know there is no magic bullet but we say this investment pays for itself in terms of ancillary private investment (and QOL improvement) lets put that to the test. Dedicated long term funding based on what the transit system does for us.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 02:11:40 PM
Quote from: Jason on October 26, 2010, 09:42:35 AM
I'm always waiting impatiently for these updates!
Can't wait to see some serious movement on the 200 Riverside project. Also, looks like the Wolfson's tower should start to go vertical soon.
Just passed by the Wolfsons site. The base of the crane is being put into place.
:::in the manly-est voice possible::: I'm almost giddy!
I didn't realize the foundation work was that far along. Very good news indeed!
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 26, 2010, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: cline on October 26, 2010, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: CS Foltz on October 26, 2010, 02:32:38 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
The JTA Streetcar Prefeasibility Study was done before the concept was added to the TPO's 2035 LRTP and the 2030 Multimodal Plans.
OK......but that is a "Prefeasibility Study" which I would interpet to be ....prior to a Feasibility Study! I am somewhat confused as to why both would have to be done first and look at things from a dollar point of view! I would think one should not be done or is not needed so would question the dollars spent for both! So the next thing I would ask is ..........what date was the Prefeasibility Study done.........that is if you know?
The prefeasibility study was a cursory study to outline potential streetcar districts and define district guidelines. The feasibility study will begin to identify routes and funding sources. It will also have a public involvment component. The feasibility study is the first step in the FTA process.
I would love to see the funding sources for Streetcar include a large portion of the 100mil from the BJP fund we have heard the JTA is still pursuing. The 10 mil a year from the TIF funds tufsu suggested earlier is another excellent idea. I would like these local funds to fast track the Streetcar line and go for FTA funds for commuter rail.
That would be the ideal plan. Save the FTA funds for commuter rail. However, I'm not sure the 100MM BJP funds actually still exist. However, I think we could figure out a way to get a starter streetcar line without it.
I think that $100 million is sitting in the courthouse personally. Nevertheless, we'll be fine financing a starter segment without that $100 million or raising taxes.
Even though I don't like the design, the new courthouse is coming along very nicely.
"HU"
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 02:11:40 PM
Quote from: Jason on October 26, 2010, 09:42:35 AM
I'm always waiting impatiently for these updates!
Can't wait to see some serious movement on the 200 Riverside project. Also, looks like the Wolfson's tower should start to go vertical soon.
Just passed by the Wolfsons site. The base of the crane is being put into place.
The crane is now installed.
Ive been keeping an on Treaty Oak Park, and its looks like they are installing walkways. Whether they will be concreate or something more appealing (like brick), thats all I can see that their doing so far. I think that was a good idea. Because you could never walk THROUGH the park. You could only walk to certain degree, or walk around it on the side walk.