Metro Jacksonville

For example, look at Seattle, WA. The architecture is just outstanding. Am I the only one who thinks J-ville could use a change of "looks," and start with a modern approach (meanwhile preserving historic bldgs, which Seattle has a lot of) and start phasing out of that "suburban look?" In other words, design like the JRTC. But all in all, I'm not talking about making the entire city of Jacksonville modern, but just bringing a different style of architecture into the lime light.

(http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/20090303/450TacomaArt_museum.jpg)
Tacoma Art Museum

(http://i51.tinypic.com/2n6hu7o.jpg)
Tukwila Station - Sounder Link

(http://pics3.city-data.com/businesses/p/2/2/1/1/6892211.JPG)
Northgate Mall - Target

(http://www.yworkshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/seattle_public_library_rem_koolhass_01.jpg)
Seattle Public Library

Well you get the picture...

Quote from: arb on October 19, 2010, 12:42:42 AM
Just imagine Philips Hwy with the BRT, new landscaping, new development (with less surface parking), and people walking from shop to shop along the corrider...

Not sure just what you have in mind arb? Philips,with BRT, will be Philips with BRT! Whether or not the architecture is modern won't have much bearing on just one more strip mall added to the mix! Way too many empty stores and strip malls now......so just not sure what your referring too!

^That's all we will be is just imagining.  BRT isn't going to bring any new walkable new development in a manner where people will have the opportunity to walk from shop to shop along the corridor.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/University-of-North-Florida/P1400151/989015404_SS45m-M.jpg)

However, I do agree with your take on modern architecture.  I think architectural diversity is an outward sign of a creative and progressive urban community.  If we're going to get to a decent point of walkable vibrancy, creativity and doing things we aren't used to are going to have to be a part of the solution.

lake....I have no problem with diversity of architecture! That is a sure sign of something vibrant and living, expanding and all of those  things that say something is living and breathing! BRT on Philips is a waste of money and resources and we can ill afford that taking place!

CS, we're in agreement.  BRT isn't going to do a thing for Philips expect cement its status as a long term blighted corridor.

I've ridden that Sounder in Seattle and if the last section from the airport has been completed, then it's transportation that really goes somewhere that people want and need to go. You will have noticed that the Sounder also goes close to many of the major venues on it's way into Seattle, such as the two sports complexes.

That parking lot was practically full when we were there and it's free. Also the bus system, financed by both King County and another I don't recall, feeds multiple locations, much like what has been discussed here on MJ. There was also a dedicated shuttle that serviced only the airport, bringing passengers to this major point. I believe the shuttle is to be discontinued after the Sounder link is completed but the concept just adds to the reasons to have a complete hub like the Prime Osborn returned to comprehensive transportation service.

A modern look for all this is just icing on the cake. Makes it comfortable to want to be there.

Sure we should push for some more modern designs.  We shouldn't just push for experimental architecture, though.  These cities that are 60+% greeny moderny blah look a little too socialist/experimental for my tastes.  Modern mixed with classical forms of architecture and in between works.  I voted "other".

100 years ago, the Prairie School style we all love and have formed historic districts around was considered cutting edge and modern.  Imagine what historic Jax would look like today if guys like Klutho weren't allowed to design in the fashion they did in those days.  We should push for embracing creativity, design and cultural diversity.  Do that and an endless amount of styles and options will develop.

I'm all for it...

Again I agree with the BRT thing being a waste of money, but JTA is going to go ahead with it regardless, so think of the benefits BRT has. What I'm really saying is it might spur transit oriented development which indeed, is usually walkable, and the Philips Hwy corridor can be turned into a dense, and walkable/transit oriented neighborhood, and then with new architecture that is modern could totally change the plain-Jane Philips Hwy as it is today, which as Ralph W stated, would be the icing on the cake. Look at Seattle for example, there light rail transit  is bringing a lot of new walkable & dense development along Martin Luther King Jr. Way.

Maybe this will help people understand better...?

Quote from: jason_contentdg on October 19, 2010, 12:01:46 PM
I'm all for it...

I see your from contentdg.com. You guys are a prime example of tasteful modern architecture, and better yet, a company which restores existing buildings! You guys rock!

Quote from: arb on October 19, 2010, 02:27:38 PM
What I'm really saying is it might spur transit oriented development which indeed, is usually walkable, and the Philips Hwy corridor can be turned into a dense, and walkable/transit oriented neighborhood, and then with new architecture that is modern could totally change the plain-Jane Philips Hwy as it is today, which as Ralph W stated, would be the icing on the cake. Look at Seattle for example, there light rail transit  is bringing a lot of new walkable & dense development along Martin Luther King Jr. Way.

Maybe this will help people understand better...?

I understand.  What I'm saying is BRT doesn't have a strong history of spurring TOD in America.  No matter what JTA is selling, the proof is in the BRT systems currently running in the US today.  For example, DT Tampa's Marion Street Transitway has been around for at least two decades now.  The only vibrancy happening along that street is found in the lines of vagrants waiting at the doors of nearby soup kitchens.  Knowing the failure of real BRT systems to spur TOD, tells the realist in me that even if JTA brings BRT to Philips, in the future it will look just as depressing as it is today.

Quote from: thelakelander on October 19, 2010, 03:43:11 PM

Quote from: arb on October 19, 2010, 02:27:38 PM
What I'm really saying is it might spur transit oriented development which indeed, is usually walkable, and the Philips Hwy corridor can be turned into a dense, and walkable/transit oriented neighborhood, and then with new architecture that is modern could totally change the plain-Jane Philips Hwy as it is today, which as Ralph W stated, would be the icing on the cake. Look at Seattle for example, there light rail transit  is bringing a lot of new walkable & dense development along Martin Luther King Jr. Way.

Maybe this will help people understand better...?

I understand.  What I'm saying is BRT doesn't have a strong history of spurring TOD in America.  No matter what JTA is selling, the proof is in the BRT systems currently running in the US today.  For example, DT Tampa's Marion Street Transitway has been around for at least two decades now.  The only vibrancy happening along that street is found in the lines of vagrants waiting at the doors of nearby soup kitchens.  Knowing the failure of real BRT systems to spur TOD, tells the realist in me that even if JTA brings BRT to Philips, in the future it will look just as depressing as it is today.

Your certainly right, but like I always say, "JTA is going to do what they wanna do anyway, regardless of what there CUSTOMERS think, so just hope for the best," and with that I say lets just hope the BRT comes with usefulness, while helping "revitalize" Philips Hwy.

Unfortunately, you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip.  It is what it is.  If Philips gets BRT without commuter rail you can stick a fork in the idea of infill walkable development having a significant impact on that corridor.  The only option is to keep stepping on JTA's toes and slapping them around when needed.  Beat someone over the head with logic enough times and they'll either come to their senses or die.  Either way, you'll end up with what you want.

Unfortunately, to have modern architecture, particularly in an downtown area that was once thriving and successful, something has to go.

The good news is thanks to reckless polices, there are often lots of empty lots to choose from.  So modern infill is most definitely the way to go.  It should, however, be modern and yet fit into the existing environment somehow.  Content Designs latest residential infill going into Springfield is a perfect example of what should be done.

I voted other.  Architecture is about personal preference/aesthetic and "fit".  Hamstringing developers into requiring a modern design is silly.  I like that the new Courthouse LOOKS like a Courthouse and would have a panic attack walking into the Seattle Library.  But, I'm hopelessly traditional.

I don't see anyone "Hamstringing" developers into anything! What ever is built in Springfield and the surrounding historical area has to be approved but whatever goes in should meld with the existing styles......just a matter of being ascetically pleasing. I ,for one, will keep stepping on JTA's toes until they see the light, the bovines! BRT for Philips is a waste of resources, time and money .....a stand alone system that will be hard put to dovetail with the existing bus's and their schedules! I don't see it working efficiently at all!

NOT cheesy historical look-a-likes (blank walls, visible concrete posts, lack of grandeur, the personality of a Walmart)
Avoid stucco at all costs.
Post-modern buildings are too much like anywhere else.

Prairie School and things like the old library downtown are winners in my book.
Anything with character really...

I get more caught up on urban design than I do the architectural style.  The new courthouse, Omni Hotel, Haydon Burns Library and Robert Stern's new library are all different architectural styles.  However, they all blow when it comes to pedestrian scale street level interaction.  On the other hand, there's nothing special about the Ed Ball Building but those ground level shops on Hogan and Adams help the pedestrian scale environment.

I actually love love love Bob Stern's design for our Main Library downtown, but then again he/his firm is my favorite architectural firm today.  It looks like an old world design on first look, but is actually quite modern.

Sure the faux stucco looks the same through and through, but I guess because I live in a city where modern glass LEED designs are commonplace they all look the same, too.  I think sleek modern designs mix well with classic designs and break up the texture, they can be overwhelming when there is an abundance of them.

And I can't think of one central library that "addresses the street."  Same with courthouses.  (institutional buildings mainly)

Check out the Harold Washington Library.  They have an entire first floor section dedicated to a teen area, with clear windows and plasma screens.  Additionally, they have their "popular library" and customer holds just off the main entrance on the first floor. 

Seen it and I love it though it's a little creepy imo.  I used to think it was some magnificent old building and didn't realize until a year or two ago that it is only 2 decades old.  It doesn't really "address" the street though.  No worries, neither does NYC's Main Library or Philly's or Boston's or the Library of Congress, etc.

Quote from: simms3 on October 19, 2010, 09:46:23 PM
I actually love love love Bob Stern's design for our Main Library downtown, but then again he/his firm is my favorite architectural firm today.  It looks like an old world design on first look, but is actually quite modern.

Sure the faux stucco looks the same through and through, but I guess because I live in a city where modern glass LEED designs are commonplace they all look the same, too.  I think sleek modern designs mix well with classic designs and break up the texture, they can be overwhelming when there is an abundance of them.

The inside and exterior look of Stern's library (from Hemming Plaza) look great.  However, Duval and Monroe Streets were virtually ignored creating two blocks of dead space.  Other than parallel parking on those streets, there's absolutely no reason to walk down those blocks.  Then they had the audacity to paste the remains of historic buildings demolished for it all along the stucco along Monroe Street.  What a way to piss in the face of historic preservation. In addition, the ground level retail shops don't have their own openings to the street, leaving them subject to the library's hours.

I like the Indianapolis Central Library.  Its a nice blend of historic preservation and modernism and well integrated with the adjacent public park.

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3335-p1060777.JPG)

(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3358-p1060849.JPG)

Quote from: simms3 on October 19, 2010, 09:46:23 PM
I actually love love love Bob Stern's design for our Main Library downtown, but then again he/his firm is my favorite architectural firm today.  It looks like an old world design on first look, but is actually quite modern.

Sure the faux stucco looks the same through and through, but I guess because I live in a city where modern glass LEED designs are commonplace they all look the same, too.  I think sleek modern designs mix well with classic designs and break up the texture, they can be overwhelming when there is an abundance of them.

Yeah, I happen to agree with the library situation, its fits the area quite nicely, and I agree that modern designs mix well with classic designs. Perhaps look at DT Chicago, so many different types of architectural designs, and somehow they all fit together like a puzzle. Thats what I would like to see, not just that stucco boring design that almost all newer houses in our Southside area has.

Quote from: simms3 on October 19, 2010, 09:47:55 PM
And I can't think of one central library that "addresses the street."  Same with courthouses.  (institutional buildings mainly)

How about Redwood City, CA's courthouse?

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/25963222840d843e9ebcz/1055621768_oXAHm-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/redwood-city-006/1055621619_naqe5-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/plaza4/1055608701_9dZhV-L.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Other/mi/plaza2/1055608651_y8Dh4-L.jpg)

Love that Indy library and wow what a courthouse.

I voted 'other' as styles are like opinions and ....... ...... 'everyone has one!'  MIX EM UP AND KEEP EM INTERESTING.

Lake, how about we tweak those courthouse renderings to reflect our own concept for the historic railroaders plaza at the Jacksonville Terminal's oldest segment? How cool would that oldest part of the station be with the arbors, flowers, fountains, food court, curio shops, and bronze historic railroad titan statues?
(http://www.drbronsontours.com/Flagler.jpg)
Flagler is a great example of our court of railroad heroes.
(http://thespps.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/JohnHenry.jpg)
Hopefully WE will put a proper railroad hammer in his hands!

OCKLAWAHA

I want to see more highrises reguardless, I want to see a blend of oldtime as well as modren arecetecture in our buildings, as long as they're at least 20 stories or more.