This is pretty surprising....I'm betting they decide to proceed with the rail route along I-275...which is less than 1/2 mile from a parallel BRT route now being designed...sound familiar?
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/oct/16/hart-study-rail-along-csx-could-cost-additional-67/news-money/
Gee..........makes me wonder if we loaned out some of our high level JTA transit planners! They have no vision either...................lots of luck on a sales tax increase in todays economy, but at least the voters get to make the choice rather than being Fee'd or forced down their throats!
well CS...they have some of the best transit planners in the country working on their plan....this just shows you there are always trade-offs and it is never as simple as some on this site think it is
This isn't suprising at all. This is something I've wondered about out loud for years now. LRT and freight don't mix. That means, somebody is going to have to put up some extra money to keep them from doing so. With that said, if they'll be wasting money too if they build these things right on top of each other. Speaking of Denver, I'll have to go and dig it up, but they issued a progress report a few years ago that said if they had to do it again, they would not have built LRT paralleling the interstate.
tufsu........I know there is commonality between Tampa and Jacksonville regarding the planning end, but there is something wrong with their picture! Tax increase?.......in todays economy hard sell for whatever reason! If the voters approve it............fine and dandy ,but what happens if it doesn't? I guess they would file said plan in that cabinet full of past studies and plans............you know....just like the cabinet full of that stuff we have on the fourth floor! I agree with lake..........LRT and freight don't mix and paralleling interstate or major road corridors is not really efficient or cost effective!
CS...if the Hillsborough County tax doesn't get approved this year, they'll try agtain....it took 4 times in Phoenix
and Pinellas County (St. Pete/Clearwater) will likely put their transit plan on the ballot next year....the whole bay area plan is being guided by TBARTA and involves all counties
So they wasted everyone's time and money with BRT to now admit they need to go with rail. Sadly they are still way ahead of the JTA.
QuoteCS...if the Hillsborough County tax doesn't get approved this year, they'll try agtain....it took 4 times in Phoenix
Do you know what the split is of that one cent sales tax that is going to road projects versus transit projects?
How was Tampa's streetcar line originally financed, wasnt that part of a half cent sales tax increase, or am I thinking of a different city?
the sales tax is 75% transit, 25% roads....of the transit, 2/3 goes to rail, 1/3 to better/expanded bus service.
Original streetcar line was only partially funded with local $....of the $52 million, about 70% came from the Feds (prior to G.W. Bush stopping all streetcar funding)
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 17, 2010, 04:32:07 PM
So they wasted everyone's time and money with BRT to now admit they need to go with rail. Sadly they are still way ahead of the JTA.
nope...they are moving ahead with BRT regardless of whether rail happens or not....the idea is that it could complement, but more likely will compete with rail...here's the info
http://www.gohart.org/departments/marketing/brt/brt_main_page.html
Thanks for the information tufsu! Brings more questions to mind though.........such as who there directs the main course that TBARTA is trying to travel......county commissioners or TBARTA management! I ask since there could be a variety of ways of that taking place! JTA seems to use tarot cards or a crystal ball made in china and does not seem to have the focus needed for the public. They seem to have their own agenda and this worries me!
Like JTA, TBARTA is an independent state agency
More on the Tampa plan to put light rail on active freight tracks
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/oct/22/csx-to-hart-light-rail-not-compatible-on-its-track/news-money/
Does not surprise me. It is not even a CSX issue, but an FRA issue. Most LRT vehicles are non-compliant and can not run parallel (w/o being temporally separated) to freight trains. Now if they were proposing commuter rail on that corridor, then CSX would be more willing to negotiate with them. I am surprised that HART officials would push the issue with CSX. They better be careful or CSX will tell them where to stick their light rail train! haha
I can't believe they're just figuring this out. Are they really that unprepared down there in Tampa? This popped in my head the first time I saw their conceptual plan years ago.
Yeah, it is very confusing to me and it makes me feel like the folks who are planning this stuff in Jacksonville seem to have a better grasp of the realities.
My solution would be to for them to switch their LRT and BRT alignments in that corridor. Run LRT up Nebraska/Busch/30th Street, etc. to pick up Busch Gardens between DT and USF. Then run BRT up 22nd or 40th through East Tampa. Another consideration would be to run BRT E/W down Hillsborough or MLK (formerly Buffalo), instead of paralleling LRT.
Here's a summary of both sides of the argument from Tampa
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/oct/01/041355/both-sides-of-hillsborough-transit-tax-issue-see-e/
Whre can one find a map of proposed routes?
gohartaa.org
http://www.gohartaa.org/
Senator Nelson's office announced today Florida to get $800 million more to complete line between Orlando and Tampa.
QuoteBy Tom Palmer
THE LEDGER
Published: Monday, October 25, 2010 at 11:52 a.m.
LAKELAND | U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson's office today announced Florida will get an additional $800 million in federal money to help pay for construction of a high-speed rail line from Tampa to Orlando.
Nelson, D-Florida, said he was informed of the grant by Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.
Florida officals had applied for the grant, which will require a 20 percent match by the state, last summer. That money comes on top of the $1.25 billion President Barack Obama had already announced the project was receive.
The rail line, which will include a stop somewhere in Lakeland, could be the first-ever high-speed rail project in the United States. Construction of the Tampa-Orlando route is scheduled to begin by 2012, and it is to begin operating in 2015.
The new financial award means Florida only needs approximately $300 million more from the federal government, in addition to the state's share of funding, to complete the $2.6 billion project, Nelson's office said, and adding the remaining federal funds could come next year.
“This is fantastic news for Florida,†Nelson said. “This will ensure the state remains full speed ahead with high-speed rail construction. As I've said many times, high-speed rail will be a game changer for Florida's economy, along the likes of the Interstate system and Disney.â€
Federal transportation officials also notified Congress today of the department's intent to award an $8 million planning grant for a proposed high-speed rail line between Orlando and Miami.
Meanwhile, Florida Department of Transportation officials are scheduled to announce the location of the Lakeland stop in early December.
this is from the next round of "high speed" rail funding....hopefully there will still be enough money for the Amtrak on FEC project (grant request was for $275 million).
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TMY_QYi9y7I/AAAAAAAADBY/M8WO1vVK2Yc/s800/TAMPA%20light%20rail%20new%20start.jpg)
This is the "NEW STARTS" map published by HART in Tampa. Add parallel BRT, then a riderless HIGH SPEED TRAIN that doesn't terminate at the UNION STATION and Tampa IS DOING SOMETHING, and it's probably worse then JTA. But what does one expect from the city where Florida get's all of their transportation savvy... CUTR AND THE NATIONAL BRT INSTITUTE at USF. Go team, I suspect one of our regular transit posters might have some USF feelings.
OCKLAWAHA
I just love how they drew LRT corridors right on top of active CSX lines. Fat chance of that happening and shame on the planners for not recognizing that LRT and freight rail don't mix....eight years ago.
Lake, it is worse than that....the CSX route line was initially drawn almost 15 years ago
That said, at the time freight rail was down...and CSX had made overtures about selling the ROW...which of course is still on the table (just $700 million for 95+ miles).
$7.4 million/mile? How busy is that freight line? I wonder if a profit from serving industrial customers along that corridor could be generated by purchasing it? Then go with DMUs instead of traditional LRT (aka Oceanside Sprinter, Austin Metrorail, New Jersey RiverLine). That option would be cheaper than whats currently being considered and would bring in higher revenue. Btw, we could do the same thing with the S-Line, relieving our port logistics problem in the process.
my understanding is that the exact cost has not been determined....HART is using the SunRail deal as an estimate
Wow. They don't have real numbers and they're asking for a tax increase to fund this stuff? Maybe its just me but they appear to be doing things backwards.
yes. they are. We are actually pretty far ahead of them believe it or not! we are building our case and doing our due diligence!
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 10:17:13 AM
Wow. They don't have real numbers and they're asking for a tax increase to fund this stuff? Maybe its just me but they appear to be doing things backwards.
heck...they haven't chosen a preferred alignment yet, voted to extend the study routes 2 months ago, and just chose LRT over bus as the preferred mode...their argument is approve the funsing source and the general concepts and let us implement....time will tell if that works
oh but TUFSU, they have not killed the BRT concept I read an article today that said BRT is still on the table!
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/oct/18/hart-leaves-open-chance-of-bus-rapid-transit-inste/news-lightrail/
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2166/2052297624_07bcafbfd7_o.jpg)
Not really a bad plan Lake, its the same thing San Diego did on the famous Tijuana Trolley line, 15 miles, and a good portion of it on freight rail with a Temporal Separation. The CSX is not likely switching 24/7, in fact bet knowing the CSX when traffic fell off the customers were lucky to see a locomotive tri-weekly. Even though traffic is astronomical compaired to a few years back, Temporal is still possible like the Jersey River Line LRT. It started off with a day-passenger/night-freight deal like San Diego until a couple of big name customers needed a mid-day switch and the FRA-NS-and RIVER LINE, cut out some fancy logistics for a mid-day run around. Also MUCH of the Dallas DART LRT is on old or current railroad freight right-of-way though I saw no evidence of a mix. On the NW Garland route is sandwiched between active freight for miles and miles.
Fact is, in spite of the modern day "can't mix" rules and mentality, they in fact CAN AND DO. It seems to be forgotten by today's planners 99% of whom were not alive when the last classic interurban railroads bit the dust, that INTERURBANS, the grandfathers of LRT, were almost ALL both a freight and passenger operation. Box cars on Main Street? YOU BET!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: fsujax on October 26, 2010, 10:32:14 AM
oh but TUFSU, they have not killed the BRT concept I read an article today that said BRT is still on the table!
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/oct/18/hart-leaves-open-chance-of-bus-rapid-transit-inste/news-lightrail/
yes....their existing BRT plan is being designed...and construction on the first line should be done in 2012
what they did for the Alternative Analysis report was decide that rail was better than bus (you have to look at various modes as part of the study) for these corridors.
The problem that now arises is that BRT down Nebraska Ave. will only be 2 blocks from LRT down I-275
My suggestion is to explore purchasing the CSX line and going with DMU at least initially. That will immediately give them an already constructed route stretching from USF to South Tampa. Even with track improvements, it will be cheaper than building it down the middle of I-275 and makes more sense than paralleling BRT a block or two away.
+1.5
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2010, 11:48:54 AM
My suggestion is to explore purchasing the CSX line and going with DMU at least initially. That will immediately give them an already constructed route stretching from USF to South Tampa. Even with track improvements, it will be cheaper than building it down the middle of I-275 and makes more sense than paralleling BRT a block or two away.
agreed...it also allows commuter rail to/from Pasco and Pinellas....as the 97 miles includes freight lines in both counties
More importantly for JACKSONVILLE is the former TAMPA NORTHERN RR (Seaboard Air Line Ry and current CSX) route North from Tampa along the route of the sometimes rumored west coast-jax turnpike. The line runs today from Tampa, north, and IS the line in the current LRT question. It ends a few miles north of Brooksville where CSX cut it. The right of way's (actually two of them for about 50% of the distance) runs from Brooksville to Inverness to a point south of Dunnellon. From Dunnellon north to Jacksonville there is still track in place via Alachua and Starke. There are also INTACT right-of-way's from this route through Gainesville to Waldo and hence north to Jacksonville. Here are the maps as I see them...
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/florida-rail-map.jpg)
Florida railroad map current
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/visionmap.jpg)
Florida's railroad vision (more like a nightmare)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/visionrevisited.jpg)
Florida's railroad vision with an Ocklawaha stamp of approval, note the red lines I added are REBUILT ON CURRENT ABANDONED FORMER RAILROAD RIGHT-OF-WAY.
Just think what this would do for our intra-state passenger rail possibilities...
OCKLAWAHA
Ock...............I do agree and this has triggered a question regarding ROW. Abandoned ROW, I am assuming, is just that, but who if anyone has the right to acquire it.......the people who abandoned it in the first place or can just anyone make a bid for it as is? How would one go about finding out? I ask since this is more your domain than mine!
^The ROW is owned by someone...most likely the railroad or local government.
OK thanks for the info lake.............then it is not really abandoned but just not used! I could see where State or local governements, within their township or whatever, could retain ownership if they still did own! Seem's that could be an investor option to procure ROW in selected spots...............I think I need to do some more investigation into the matter...........but thanks!
I missed this one...apparently Tampa still hasn't completely scrapped BRT for its premium corridor.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/oct/18/hart-leaves-open-chance-of-bus-rapid-transit-inste/
keep in mind that regardless what they ultimately choose for this corridor, they are still implementing BRT on other corridors.
These guys are more clueless than I originally thought. So let me get this right. Assuming the premium corridor becomes BRT....
1. If I-275 is chosen as the route, the premium BRT route would run parallel to the Nebraska BRT corridor, which is two blocks east of I-275.
2. If the CSX route is chosen, they actually believe CSX is going to allow them to build a busway on rail ROW, sucking up space for potential additional future rail capacity, as well as increasing the risk of bus/train interaction?
Wow....just wow.....
QuoteKaren Jaroch, a leader in the No Tax For Tracks movement, pointed to a HART study that showed bus rapid transit annual operational costs of up to $22.75 million compared with $29 million light rail.
Bus rapid transit capital costs for both Tampa corridors would be $1.39 billion, compared with $2.8 billion for light rail, with track and overhead electric power lines adding to train costs.
I wonder if they have economic development estimates for BRT and LRT? It would also be nice to know if they are considering DMU on existing tracks, which would significantly reduce track and eliminate catenary costs.
I am not so sure of those operating cost comparisons. In the long run, it is cheaper to operate trains than buses. Just adding capacity alone to a corridor is cheaper with rail than bus.
"Steve Polzin, didn't attend the vote..." and thus we know the origin of the stupidity in Tampa. This guy is a "genius" and is the mouthpiece of the BRT industry, just check some of these out:
http://www.google.com/search?q=BRT+BETTER+THEN+RAIL+POLZIN&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Lake, I would like to see numbers on DMU'S as a economic engine. Frankly I doubt it exists as the vehicles are much more of a Commuter Rail vehicle then they are a LRT-STREETCAR type. Thus if I had to place them in some order (FSUJAX? TUFSU? jump in here if you'd like) I'd say... STREETCAR = up graded bus, LRT = up graded BRT, DMU = up graded intercity motor coach, RDC = micro scale Amtrak like experience, PUSH-PULL COMMUTER TRAINS = a higher capacity Amtrak like train. The RDC AND DMU come from the same heritage, but the newer DMU units are intended as short haul vehicles and the RDC MOST CERTAINLY WAS NOT! *
OCKLAWAHA
* Choctaw Rocket RDC (Memphisâ€"Little Rockâ€"Oklahoma Cityâ€"Amarilloâ€"Tucumcari)
Quote from: thelakelander on October 28, 2010, 02:12:27 PM
I wonder if they have economic development estimates for BRT and LRT?
this is what they are still working on...supposed to be done by December
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 28, 2010, 02:46:58 PM
"Steve Polzin, didn't attend the vote..." and thus we know the origin of the stupidity in Tampa. This guy is a "genius" and is the mouthpiece of the BRT industry, just check some of these out:
http://www.google.com/search?q=BRT+BETTER+THEN+RAIL+POLZIN&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Lake, I would like to see numbers on DMU'S as a economic engine. Frankly I doubt it exists as the vehicles are much more of a Commuter Rail vehicle then they are a LRT-STREETCAR type. Thus if I had to place them in some order (FSUJAX? TUFSU? jump in here if you'd like) I'd say... STREETCAR = up graded bus, LRT = up graded BRT, DMU = up graded intercity motor coach, RDC = micro scale Amtrak like experience, PUSH-PULL COMMUTER TRAINS = a higher capacity Amtrak like train. The RDC AND DMU come from the same heritage, but the newer DMU units are intended as short haul vehicles and the RDC MOST CERTAINLY WAS NOT! *
OCKLAWAHA
* Choctaw Rocket RDC (Memphisâ€"Little Rockâ€"Oklahoma Cityâ€"Amarilloâ€"Tucumcari)
I you're not to fond of the DMU but Austin's has spurred TOD. All of the developments shown in this article have been built along this line, since the groundbreaking of Capital Metrorail. Take a look here:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-metrorail-commuter-line-opens-in-austin
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/871778974_fwj2E-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/871778700_59rvR-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/869696457_BQLWX-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/871778783_r237m-M.jpg)
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT:
(http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df2/df07062009d.jpg)
FLORIDA'S CHOICE... (Out of business and reopening under another brand)
(http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/8/7/5/9/0/ar122453782709578.jpg)
SIEMENS DESIRO... LAKES Favorite?
(http://www.bellefontetrain.org/images/rollingstock/Budd~RDC~Flyer.jpg)
The RDC, OCKLAWAHA'S gospel of if it ain't broke - don't fix it... Introduced in 1949 and still being put in service.
The DMU'S have a few sticking points with me that I personally haven't been able to digest. Being DIESEL they are naturally louder-dirty-and much more $$ to maintain and operate. The RDC (which COULD BE revived in a modern incarnation by IRS in Canada) is generally much more economical PMPG then the DMU'S the COLORADO RAILCAR DMU "Florida's approved choice" is only about 1/2 as efficient as the RDC.
I'm quite happy to see Austin IS IN FACT getting development from the DMU commuter line, it will be interesting to see how the Vehicle holds up to the branchline hill and dale nature of the route. For our own former SEABOARD - JACKSONVILLE BELT RAILROAD/FERNANDINA AND JACKSONVILLE "s" line segment, which was once a high speed mainline I'd love to see us with a couple of RDC'S on the old racetrack. They were built by the same company that built some of the SEABOARDS fleet, and ought to be a hell of a comfortable match.
NOW! If we could JUST get a demo!
OCKLAWAHA
Ock, I was just struck by a thought......why not a demonstration? Maybe JTA could be convinced with something concrete before them? Maybe CSX could be persuaded to loan their tracks for a trial run? Or maybe the S Line trackage is in useable shape for a demo run?
RDC or DMU really doesn't matter to me from a TOD perspective. TOD is impacted more by the service than the actual rail vehicle. In the case of Austin's commuter rail, the DMU and RDC both would stimulate TOD as long as the headways are decent and the system is reliable.
Quote from: stephendare on October 28, 2010, 03:01:44 PM
They have it for referendum this tuesday. Its her opinion that if the referendum for the tax fails, then the conversation about rail is over.
I disagree...it took more than once to approve in cities like Phoenix, Miami, and Houston...it is expected that the pro-rail people will tweak the plan and bring it back in 2012...in the meantime, Pinellas may bring their transporttion tax to referendum in 2011.
What happens to the rail plans in Tampa now?
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/nov/02/022250/early-votes-show-heavy-opposition-to-rail-tax/news-metro/
They should regroup by focusing on establishing an affordable "short" starter line without attempting to raise taxes first. Or better yet, work to get more utilization out of the existing 2.5 mile streetcar system. Give people a chance to see good transit in action locally before acting like a vagrant.
It will come back. I believe Tampa put the cart before the horse. They should have had the plan already set and ready to go. Too many questions were still left unanswered.
I agree fsujax....I think they will finish their AA study, get some other things cleared up (like what is the potential for express bus and managed lanes from the outside counties), and then go back out to the voters.
Ock, A technical question about the Siemens Desiro:
Siemens makes buses with a diesel generator and DC motors attached to all wheels. It makes it possible to really clean up and silence the diesel motor since it runs at a constant speed (except when the bus is stopped). Since there is no transmission and all the wheels are drivers, the buses are really smooth to ride; no lurches as the transmission shifts.
Their system has been adapted for yachts since it allows one engine to run two propellers, eliminates the transmissions and allows for different placement of the engine.
Does the Desiro use the same system? If so, it eliminates some of the opposition to diesel power; noisy, dirty, etc.
Quote from: CS Foltz on October 28, 2010, 07:38:29 PM
Ock, I was just struck by a thought......why not a demonstration? Maybe JTA could be convinced with something concrete before them? Maybe CSX could be persuaded to loan their tracks for a trial run? Or maybe the S Line trackage is in useable shape for a demo run?
I think the problem with this idea is the main benfit to fixed rail is not ridership it is surrounding economics impact. Temporary does not breed that the same way "flexible" would not. And now you really have to be able to sell the "Tea Party" wave that direct receipts are not the only income you see from investment in infrastructure. Not that they want to spend a dime to make a dollar anyway. Not a cheap shot it just seems their hope is if the government stays out of things the benevolent "invisible hand" of Adam Smith will save the day.
Quote from: Dog Walker on November 03, 2010, 09:05:19 AM
Ock, A technical question about the Siemens Desiro:
Siemens makes buses with a diesel generator and DC motors attached to all wheels. It makes it possible to really clean up and silence the diesel motor since it runs at a constant speed (except when the bus is stopped). Since there is no transmission and all the wheels are drivers, the buses are really smooth to ride; no lurches as the transmission shifts.
Their system has been adapted for yachts since it allows one engine to run two propellers, eliminates the transmissions and allows for different placement of the engine.
Does the Desiro use the same system? If so, it eliminates some of the opposition to diesel power; noisy, dirty, etc.
I think your referring to their "Active Motor Management," system. The Desiro is available with several packages as it's components are modular. The down side of any of the new active motor systems, as well as exotic combination of fuels, generators, and converters, is that the diesel runs at a MUCH higher RPM. This can (and will) create internal havoc, melting wires, knocking out electronics and electrical components and just about anything else extreme heat can do. Bus fleet operators are having to retro-fit many of the new "super fuel sipping buses," with heat shields, covers, protective coatings etc.
I don't know the mechanics all that well but give me a Dedec 400 with an Eaton Automatic Transmission...OCKLAWAHA
There may be hope yet for the Tampa Bay area...this makes sense!
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/nov/19/tbarta-talking-to-csx-about-using-tracks-for-regio/
Gasp...dare i say they learned something from Jacksonville!
Is there a map of the CSX lines in Pinellas County and Tampa?
ock posted one on Page 3 of this thread
Here you go:
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/florida-rail-map.jpg)
Quote from: JeffreyS on November 03, 2010, 10:55:50 AM
the benevolent "invisible hand" of Adam Smith will save the day.
So true and what a myth.
If the benevolent "invisible hand" of Adam Smith would be so perfectly operational, then Banana Republics would be non-existent.
The reason private enterprise works so inefficiently in Banana Republics is that the institututional ( yes governmental) infrastructure hasn't created the safeguards and foundations for private enterprise to operate efficiently.
Thus "Getting government out of the way" hurts private enterprise.
What we need is NOT necessarily smaller government, but BETTER government, wherein private defense contractors do not have the opportunity to rip off the tax payer, as is so prevalent in the US war endeavors.
And wherein private enterprise ala Rick Scott doesn't get to rip off the tax payer by defrauding Medicare!
the line that could be purchased is the one coming down from Hernando County...it also goes straight west intgo Pinellas and then down to St. Pete
CSX has said they are not willing to sell the line coming in from Lakeland and Plant City
Yeah, that's a pretty busy line heading down to the Port of Tampa and it provides access to Bone Valley. So basically CSX is willing to sell every thing west of the Uceta Yard in East Tampa?
I just want them to sell ROW for commuter rail on the A line in Jacksonville.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 19, 2010, 09:33:06 PM
Yeah, that's a pretty busy line heading down to the Port of Tampa and it provides access to Bone Valley. So basically CSX is willing to sell every thing west of the Uceta Yard in East Tampa?
as I understand it, yes
Here's the full article
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/nov/19/tbarta-talking-to-csx-about-using-tracks-for-regio/news-politics/
Strange thing is, we might have more data on the Tampa possibilities then they do! BTW, we have this information for the Jacksonville Commuter Rail lines too. If your wondering how this 1950's-70's stuff applies check out the miles (from Richmond VA), between stations you'll find those track miles down to the 10Th, the right hand column gives the facilities at each location such as a "Y" (think 3 point turn), yards, fuel, sidings with car capacity. The lines that are now abandoned are likely trails, or empty right-of-way's, hence reusable to some extent.
OCKLAWAHA ;D
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TOhrm3ubcfI/AAAAAAAADEI/LyqjWmukAF8/s800/Seaboard.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TOhrnRFig2I/AAAAAAAADEM/Kcjmn1m-TA0/s800/Pebble%20Phosphate%20Dist%20Map.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TOhrnq9GAzI/AAAAAAAADEQ/Ap1NeAMBNlI/s800/Yeoman%20Subdivision%20TT.jpg)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TOhrnxRG4uI/AAAAAAAADEU/z1jVn9e7KUM/s800/SEABOARD%20tamp%20area%20TT.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TOhsHEjqdDI/AAAAAAAADEg/EuP5l9YmA_E/s800/Palmetto%20Sub%20SCL.jpg)
NOTE THE LINES IN PURPLE, each of these segments is on CURRENT ABANDONED right-of-way, which is why we need to be watching Tampa VERY closely. There is opportunity here for an entirely new rail passenger route in place of a one-time turnpike plan. We could easily support regional service (corridor style) between Jacksonville and Baldwin-Starke-Alachua-Gainesville, and Tampa could just as easily support Tampa-Sulphur Springs-Brooksville-Inverness-Dunnellon, commuter rail services as well as regional service to Alachua-Gainesville. Two and two plus Amtrak = OPPORTUNITY.
You will also note two other routes in purple, these are at our end of the line, and represent two abandoned routes that could short-cut the service to Gainesville. The WALDO-Gainesville-ARCHER segment is entirely intact as a right-of-way or grade and would include service right past the Veterans Hospital, Shand's, UF and the Gainesville Regional Airport. You can see this as a complete route in the 1954 SEABOARD AIR LINE MAP at the top of my previous post. In those days the population was so slight between the two metro's that only a gas-electric doodlebug served the territory. Today the west coast and the Jax-Gainesville segment would be two of the more densely populated routes in the state with not more then 30 miles of real rural area left.
OCKLAWAHA
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/TOh3zAzEnsI/AAAAAAAADE8/GGFMY8IEQ8k/s800/FLORIDA%20RAILROAD%20MAP%20WEST%20COAST%20LINE.jpg)
Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 20, 2010, 08:48:28 PM
You can see this as a complete route in the 1954 SEABOARD AIR LINE MAP at the top of my previous post. In those days the population was so slight between the two metro's that only a gas-electric doodlebug served the territory. Today the west coast and the Jax-Gainesville segment would be two of the more densely populated routes in the state with not more then 30 miles of real rural area left.
(http://www.wfrrm.com/railhist/dbug.jpg)
In case you were wondering "What the hell is a doodlebug...?" Think of it as school bus - post office - UPS truck - farm wagon - and oh yeah, a passenger coach, in effect a VERY casual service offered where steam trains couldn't make the budget. OCKLAWAHA