Can Downtown Survive?

[ChriswUfGator]

Explain it to me slowly then...  Chris says companies are leaving because of parking issues.  Cool.  He then goes on to explain that there is an overabundance of parking.  Since lack of spaces clearly is not the issue then it must be cost to park in garages and such.

Just trying to understand... I may not be the only one who is not quite following you.

Yeah, that's exactly correct BridgeTroll...

COJ is sitting around fellating itself to images of all its prized parking meters from 1960 that only accept change (which nobody carries anymore) and then ticketing the hell out of the few people who actually use them, when the reality is that at any given time most of the metered spots are actually sitting vacant. Unless dust and tumbleweeds count as occupied.

This has created an environment where, despite there being sufficient street parking, everyone including the casual visitor is forced to park in pay-lots or garages, or pay an expensive parking ticket. These lots and garages, in turn, are owned by for-profit enterprises which naturally have realized that, thanks to COJ's asinine parking policies, they can charge whatever they want.

So the visitors got sick of paying $5 to park to get a $5 sandwich, and sick of getting a $5 sandwich with a $15 side order of parking ticket, and quit coming. Nature took its course, and the restaurants and shops closed down.

The corporate employers have deeper pockets, and it took them a bit longer to feel the pain. They are in a tricky position, because they can't really demand that an employee they only intend to pay $20k has to pay $300/mo in parking just to work there. So they, like the (now-gone) visitors to downtown, are forced into the open arms of the parking cartel and forced to sign overpriced contracts in order to secure parking for their employees. And COJ, despite owning multiple parking garages for its own needs, agreed not to provide any free public parking in them, to avoid undercutting the private pay-lot and garage owners.

Eventually, the economy started getting tight, and the corporations realized that, hey, there's this great area called the Southside (which not coincidentally was developed by the very family in control of city hall). Over off Gate Parkway we can get land in the Peytons' business parks and build whatever size building we need, without paying $1MM a year for parking and having every visitor to our office curse us out and swear never to do business with us again because they got 27 parking tickets while they were here for a meeting.

So the companies start relocating, at least except for the ones like CSX that have their own parking lots and aren't bothered by this mess. And the snowball keeps rolling downhill, as the ancillary businesses like accountants, supply stores, IT businesses, etc., are forced to hit the road in order to be nearer to their customers. And the longer it goes on, the worse it gets.

Then you have people who, no matter how many abandoned buildings and tumbleweeds are strewn about, will march around declaring this asinine approach to the problem to be a success. Let it go on long enough, and the only people left downtown will be the city and its parking cops. Which is about where we are now.

Asinine policies have created excessive cost for a commodity that there is an overabundance of and no demand for.

In return, the market has taken its course, and everybody left. Great job COJ.

[fsujax]

I say board it up and let commuter rail pass through creating the "U" from Clay County to the JTB/US 1 corridor, where all the employment is. Since no one is working Downtown, then there is no need for any commuter rail stops downtown. Suburb to Suburb stops only.

[BridgeTroll]

Thanks... I appreciate the synopsis.  In the past few years with the help of Stephen and discussions like this I have learned more about the effect our parking policies have on business.  I always understood the issue with regards to small businesses and restaurants etc... but did not grasp the avalanche effect on the rest of downtown.

The solution then is to simply remove ALL street meters and parking restrictions... causing rates in garages to fall?

[vicupstate]

^^

Simply remove the meters, but enforce time limited parking.  Customers and visitors will be able to come in as they please without workers taking all the best spaces.  No one has to fish for coins either.   

[ChriswUfGator]

Thanks... I appreciate the synopsis.  In the past few years with the help of Stephen and discussions like this I have learned more about the effect our parking policies have on business.  I always understood the issue with regards to small businesses and restaurants etc... but did not grasp the avalanche effect on the rest of downtown.

The solution then is to simply remove ALL street meters and parking restrictions... causing rates in garages to fall?

I think the solution is clearly to get rid of all the parking meters, and also to convert the portion of the city-owned parking lots and garages that is presently paid-parking into free parking. I would start without any time limitations, and when demand picks up (downtown can be resuscitated over time) then institute time limits if/when necessary. In the meantime, let the market take its course. The pay-lot operators have had a city-sponsored monopoly for 40 years, don't feel bad for them.

The private garage rates would then naturally wind up falling, since they would finally have another option they'd actually have to compete against. More importantly, without the constant hassle of having to go get change just to go downtown, getting ticketed, getting towed, being forced to pay $5 to park in a garage, etc., etc., etc., people wouldn't be so hesitant to be downtown.

Speaking personally, the last time I moved 4 years ago I looked seriously at 11E and the soon-to-open Carling. I happen to love high-rises, and so that was right up my alley. In both instances, the deal-killer for me was parking. None of the units I looked at came with more than 1 parking space, and some in 11E came with none at all. They did have a discount contract with the private garage across the street, but that still wound up being $200-$300 a month per vehicle. Which is nuts.

In Riverside I have two covered designated spots, and there's a whole lot more to do here, and I don't have to deal with vagrants and panhandlers every 5 minutes. Everyone who considers downtown has to face this choice, and for most it winds up being a "not worth it". The lifestyle ramifications are huge, and parking is a problem for any potential resident with more than 1 vehicle, or depending on the unit any vehicle at all. And it's not like you can get away without having one, since if you lived there you have to drive somewhere else to do anything, as these policies have run most of the businesses off.

If you get people coming back downtown, businesses will follow, and eventually everything will take its course again. But right now, nobody is downtown because the whole setup of being gouged for a garage or gouged for a parking ticket or having to make a special trip to the bank to get quarters is just so unbelievably asinine that it's not worth it.

There are certainly other factors in play, and the economy has certainly sped up the destruction the last few years, but this one issue by itself is by far the largest single thing that COJ could address to begin rebuilding Raccoon City (the deserted urban wasteland in Resident Evil, for those who haven't seen any of the movies).

[Lunican]

You've also got the private parking lot owners in on the fun by issuing their own fake parking tickets.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-mar-fake-look-alike-tickets-part-of-money-grab-scam

[simms3]

RE: Parking for residents, downtown.

I live in midtown Atlanta, and while each unit in my building comes with 1 spot and the penthouses come with 2, it is $50/month (and thats considered cheap here) for an additional spot.  Smaller buildings usually charge a one time $300 or so fee for annual parking permits in their buildings and overall parking is MUCH MUCH more expensive here.  Bottom line: it does not deter anyone.

Also, they have replaced at least half of the parking meters with walk ups powered by PV.  The walk ups take cards, change, bills, and just about any method of payment.  The meter maids are not quite as strict either.

^^^And ROFL about the fake parking tickets!!

[Fallen Buckeye]

BTW saw someone heading North-bound on a South-bound street today by the new courthouse today. Are there any statistics on drivers driving in the wrong direction on downtown streets? Especially those that cause accidents.

[Timkin]

You've also got the private parking lot owners in on the fun by issuing their own fake parking tickets.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-mar-fake-look-alike-tickets-part-of-money-grab-scam

  That Lunican is the witty one ,let me just mention

[Ocklawaha]

Perhaps we're missing a great opportunity? With an empty downtown we could chip in and erect a couple of dozen 50-80 story false front buildings.... Kind of like a Hollywood set.  A little back lighting and from the freeway, everyone will be convinced we are the REAL CITY ON THE MOVE!

Of course we could convert the core into the Worlds largest Shuffleboard Complex, where Old Hippies and Blue Hairs gather from around the world!

YIPPIEEEE! SOCO!

OCKLAWAHA

[Charles Hunter]

Doesn't the city guarantee the profits of some of the garages?  How would that play into the scenario above (which I like).

[finehoe]

The city could at least provide 200 meter-less street parking spaces around the Landing, and then its obligation to provide parking would be fulfilled.

[thelakelander]

I think its possible that we might have a historic failure of a city core.  Maybe on a par with Detroits.

Actually, worse. No joke.

Actually, it's an insult to the City of Detroit to mention our downtown in the same sentence as their's.  We've spent a decade arguing about parking meters while they've moved on to building LRT. I know people like to pick on that city but their downtown really has turned the corner in the last decade (like most major cities).  They have the arts, entertainment, dining and companies moving back to the core.  Several of those major companies moving back to downtown Detroit are directly responsible for the privately funded light rail line they are getting ready to break ground on. 

[futurejax]

Moving here from NYC in September and I will most likely be working dowtown.  Getting educated on the downtown problems.  The parking situation as well summarized by many posters clearly seems ridiculous and destructive.  Not looking for a lengthy political history here but I would be interested in hearing how these policies came into place and why they have lasted as long as they have without some common sense and logic winning out.  And does anyone think the current crop of mayoral candidates will end this nonsense?

[Timkin]

I feel sorry for Detroit.. but then I also feel badly for the Downtown Jacksonville I knew as a kid, that nearly does not exist anymore.  Parking Meters need to go.. no matter where they are.. Garages need to be reduced and some removed as well as surface parking.. some of the great destinations we once had in Downtown need to somehow be revived. Saving the Few Hotels and Towers we have to create Residential infill and/or Hotel Space, IMO could greatly reverse what 3 decades of hideous management killed.  Our downtown thriving Urban Core.