Commuter Rail is needed

[jbroadglide]

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-28/story/jacksonville_communter_would_be_costly_but_study_shows_its_needed

Okay there are a lot of very smart people on this board which is why I enjoy coming here. Someone who is much wiser than I please explain to me why it would cost so much money to add commuter service on already existing rail with already existing infrastructure. Is it literally the cost of the trains that would be needed to provide the service?

[Ocklawaha]

That environmental mess is along the tiny creek South of Evergreen cemetery. Some of you might Ed Castinelli, at JTA, saying rail could NEVER be built here because of this "wetlands", then he proceeded to tell us that the bridge would be like crossing the Nile!!

Ed, what is the difference in crossing that "national wetlands" with a bus or with a dedicated rail line. besides Ed, your "Nile River" looks more like a highly polluted ditch, and the rail RofW is already there and owned by the city.

OCKLAWAHA

[fsujax]

Get over the TU boards and post some postive comments. So far there is all negativity!

[fsujax]

I heard that came up at the meeting today when JTA staff presented this to the board. $622million/91 miles=$6.8 million a mile. FDOT 2009 guidelines for new 4-lane urban arterial road $17 million a mile!!!!

[thelakelander]

Only +51 miles of the proposed 90 miles of rail corridor are in Duval County.  So for Duval County residents the overall cost is closer to $350 million, not $622 million.  Also, if phased you could chop at least another 15 miles of track off that list because there would be no need to immediately extend north of River City Marketplace (JIA) or south of the Avenues.  That would drop your costs down to $250 million for a little under 37 miles of rail corridor.

This is just an example of how the costs can vary when we really begin to dig into what we need right a way and what may be needed in 30 years.

[mtraininjax]

622 million for 90 miles? If we let Peyton and his geniouses get their hands on the figures, I'm sure we can get it to 1 Trillion by the time he leaves office. Anyone remember the 190 million courthouse??

[tufsu1]

Thanks, I just used that in a follow up comment.

The cost of building a rail line, complete with stations, lights etc:  $6.8 million a mile.

FDOT 2009 guidelines for new 4-lane urban arterial road $17 million a mile!!!!

So why are we still building concrete highways over more sensible rail lines?

Who makes the concrete?  http://www.gateprecast.com/locations/s_jacksonville.cfm

one problem...over 80% of our roads are asphalt, not concrete!

[Ocklawaha]

Problem solved, Asphalt roads do not have a life span anywhere near rail, and thus concrete, with it's much longer life span is the only highway construction that one could compare.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Well Herb could always use more money right?! Figures can be sequed either way to reflect anyone's point but the matter is pretty basic.........need light rail and need it now! Call it trolley/Street Car or a people moving conveyance don't care.........we need to start something now not later!

[fsujax]

Stephen, I saw your post on Jacksonville.com great work! One reader mentioned costs per passenger mile, even if you make that comparison rail comes out on top. Trains can move more people, faster than adding an additional lane to a highway. One lane can move about 2,000 cars an hour. Trains can move way more than that, all you have to do is keep adding passenger cars.

Lake, also had some good points. Notice the article mentioned JTA, Duval County wouldn't be paying for this on their own. It's got to be a joint effort. Truly, a regional system with costs shared across jurisdictional boundaries.

[buckethead]

I heard that came up at the meeting today when JTA staff presented this to the board. $622million/91 miles=$6.8 million a mile. FDOT 2009 guidelines for new 4-lane urban arterial road $17 million a mile!!!!

I agree that the cost is less per mile, but I wonder how a projected "usership" per mile comparison would look. It might actually prove cheaper to do the roads. Any rail proponents would need to be able to counter such an arguement.

"Roads: Moving carcasses in all directions... for less per rider/mile!"

Taking environmental impact into consideration would also help compare apples and oranges.

[Dog Walker]

The environmental impact of rail has to be a tiny fraction of the impact of roads.
1. The right-of-way is much smaller.
2. There is far less impermeable surface with rail so much less polluted runoff.
3. Rail does not break wildlife corridors the way highways do because the traffic in not continuous.
4. Energy consumed for building rail is less than for building highways.
5. Energy consumed per passenger mile is less for rail than for roads.
6. New Tier III locomotive diesels produce much less exhaust emissions per passenger mile than cars.

[Lucasjj]

Reading through all of the posts on Jacksonville.com, it is really hard for me to believe there will ever be a commuter rail system in Jacksonville. Hopefully the people that post there are a slim minority compared to the rest of the city, but I fear they are not.

[Steve]

I don't think that any news site's comments (including this one) are representative of Jacksonville as a whole.  I feel like the readers here generally are more educated on the issue and are more pro-rail, while most other news site readers are against it (since we already have roads).  In the end, I think that most of Jacksonville is somewhere between our posters and jacksonville.com's.

[KenFSU]

Strange how Jacksonville.com changed the story's headline from "Commuter Rail is Needed" to "Commuter Rail Would Be Costly."