Downtown Jacksonville's ten largest office buildings

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Where are all those Downtown "residents" DIA was recently bragging about ?  By counting Brooklyn and the Southbank, they are being deceptive about what is really happening in the Downtown core that us longtimers consider the real Downtown.

[thelakelander]

^They are spread out in Brooklyn and the Southbank, spending their money in Riverside and San Marco. I'm highly interested to see the impact that the adaptive reuse and infill projects NW of city hall will have, once they are completed. The key for the Northbank, LaVilla and Cathedral District is to put all that vacant public owned and non tax generating land back into service.

[Captain Zissou]

^ Where are all those Downtown "residents" DIA was recently bragging about ?  By counting Brooklyn and the Southbank, they are being deceptive about what is really happening in the Downtown core that us longtimers consider the real Downtown.

I don't know that they were trying to be deceptive as much as they just don't know what builds a critical mass and the necessary foot traffic to support street level retail.

[Steve]

^ Where are all those Downtown "residents" DIA was recently bragging about ?  By counting Brooklyn and the Southbank, they are being deceptive about what is really happening in the Downtown core that us longtimers consider the real Downtown.

I don't know that they were trying to be deceptive as much as they just don't know what builds a critical mass and the necessary foot traffic to support street level retail.

This. I think it's taken them until now to realize that spread out developments aren't going to get it done, especially when those developments aren't designed well at street level. Truthfully I'm a little concerned about the lack of density in the North Core Developments, though have some hope since they're designed better at the ground floor and at least have some mid-rise density.

[thelakelander]

I'm not sure that building density the correct way is their highest priority with downtown. I think there are a lot of other factors, including politics, that come into play. With NOCO, what projects are you worried about that don't have enough density?

[jaxlongtimer]

^This... politics.  Always the #1 "planning tool" of the City.  I was surprised (but maybe not too much) to see that the "Planning Department" was also the one that laid out the City Council districts that the Federal Court just threw out for being political, not in accordance with fair districting.  That tells you exactly who controls our "Planning Department" and what their priorities are. 

A total joke.  I feel bad for the "professionals" that go to work there only to find out that the politicians "who know better" override any planning they truly try to implement.

[Steve]

I'm not sure that building density the correct way is their highest priority with downtown. I think there are a lot of other factors, including politics, that come into play. With NOCO, what projects are you worried about that don't have enough density?

Just the height of the buildings, aside from the Independent Life Building. Most are low/Mid rise buildings. Now many of them are historic renovations so the buildings themselves aren't tall, so they're doing what they can with them. But you're just not going to get many residential units in any smaller building.

[marcuscnelson]

^This... politics.  Always the #1 "planning tool" of the City.  I was surprised (but maybe not too much) to see that the "Planning Department" was also the one that laid out the City Council districts that the Federal Court just threw out for being political, not in accordance with fair districting.  That tells you exactly who controls our "Planning Department" and what their priorities are. 

A total joke.  I feel bad for the "professionals" that go to work there only to find out that the politicians "who know better" override any planning they truly try to implement.

Honestly, I'm gonna be fair and say that I wouldn't really expect the planning department to not be "controlled" to some extent by elected officials. They're the ones who sign off on the zoning ordinances, after all. If anything, that's kind of the expectation. Our problem is that we have really bad elected officials. And on one hand, this isn't unique to cities, or large cities (See: LA's city council a few weeks ago), but the unique part is probably that they've genuinely stifled the city's prosperity and growth compared to its peers, while in most cities of this size they can't create a problem to that extent.

[marcuscnelson]

I'm not sure that building density the correct way is their highest priority with downtown. I think there are a lot of other factors, including politics, that come into play. With NOCO, what projects are you worried about that don't have enough density?

Just the height of the buildings, aside from the Independent Life Building. Most are low/Mid rise buildings. Now many of them are historic renovations so the buildings themselves aren't tall, so they're doing what they can with them. But you're just not going to get many residential units in any smaller building.

This isn't unfair, but I do feel like over 600 apartments in 4 blocks right next to a central park is nothing to sneeze at.

[jaxlongtimer]

^This... politics.  Always the #1 "planning tool" of the City.  I was surprised (but maybe not too much) to see that the "Planning Department" was also the one that laid out the City Council districts that the Federal Court just threw out for being political, not in accordance with fair districting.  That tells you exactly who controls our "Planning Department" and what their priorities are. 

A total joke.  I feel bad for the "professionals" that go to work there only to find out that the politicians "who know better" override any planning they truly try to implement.

Honestly, I'm gonna be fair and say that I wouldn't really expect the planning department to not be "controlled" to some extent by elected officials. They're the ones who sign off on the zoning ordinances, after all. If anything, that's kind of the expectation. Our problem is that we have really bad elected officials. And on one hand, this isn't unique to cities, or large cities (See: LA's city council a few weeks ago), but the unique part is probably that they've genuinely stifled the city's prosperity and growth compared to its peers, while in most cities of this size they can't create a problem to that extent.

I am going to be "unfair" and say a good planning department is given the rope to do their job without over-control by elected officials, good or bad.  Why would you hire professional planners and pay millions more over time to planning consultants and then not listen to anything they have to say?  Why don't we save the taxpayers money, eliminate the planning department and just let the mayor and the City Council have their way, as they seem to do now anyway?  I would suggest there are a good number of cities that stand by their planning departments and that is what puts them ahead of Jacksonville that effectively plans next-to-nothing when it is all said and done.

I have heard or read of plenty of stories of applications for rezonings in other parts of the country where the planning department pretty much had the last word.  What good is zoning if it is washed away simply by a developer lining the campaigns of elected officials as seems to be the case in Jax?

It would be interesting to see how many contested zoning requests by developers are turned down here.  Anecdotally, I am told by those who are City Hall watchers, it is not many at all.  In my personal experience, I perceive that the Planning Department leans toward approving requests just to save the very likely "humiliation" of being overridden by elected officials.