Perception vs. Reality of Safety in the Urban Core

[ssky]

Perception: Downtown has ongoing safety/security issues which pose a threat to current residents and business owners and serve as a major deterrent to our revitalization.

Reality: http://www.news4jax.com/news/man-who-attempted-robbery-at-downtown-atm-wanted/35485026


This took place at 8 p.m. on a Wednesday night in an area of Downtown that is far from isolated. Luckily the victim escaped unharmed...this time. So, please do not tell me that safety issues are all in my mind, or in the mind of anyone who isn't drinking the Kool-Aid. Downtown has been dangerous for a while and is becoming more so with every passing week. I have lived down here for eight and a half years and have personally watched the problem grow in direct proportion to declining police presence. We are not helping matters, or each other, by pretending it doesn't exist.

You can plant all the flowers in the world in Hemming Park, hold 1,000,000 street festivals every year, and form an infinite amount of committees to schedule countless pointless meetings, but nothing is ever going to change until everyone admits there is a problem and makes it Priority One to fix it.

[thelakelander]

You should be concerned about safety  and be observant of your surroundings everywhere. Reality is that crime can happen anywhere. Not even Nordstroms and McMansions can keep the bad element away.

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/jso-searching-man-accused-robbing-cvs-st-johns-tow/njMWc/

http://www.atmsecurity.com/news/atm-attacks/man-woman-sought-in-alleged-ponte-vedra-beach-hilton-garden-inn-atm-theft-first-coast-news.html

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/2015/01/05/bingo-hall-robbed-orange-park/21312373/

[lastdaysoffla]

You can plant all the flowers in the world in Hemming Park, hold 1,000,000 street festivals every year, and form an infinite amount of committees to schedule countless pointless meetings, but nothing is ever going to change until everyone admits there is a problem and makes it Priority One to fix it.

What is the problem?

Choose:

A.  Police Presence?

B.  Poverty?

C.  A perception in Jacksonville that it's 'only a crime if you get caught'?


hint: only one is a perception AND a reality

/thread

[ssky]

You should be concerned about safety  and be observant of your surroundings everywhere. Reality is that crime can happen anywhere. Not even Nordstroms and McMansions can keep the bad element away.

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/news/jso-searching-man-accused-robbing-cvs-st-johns-tow/njMWc/

http://www.atmsecurity.com/news/atm-attacks/man-woman-sought-in-alleged-ponte-vedra-beach-hilton-garden-inn-atm-theft-first-coast-news.html

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/local/2015/01/05/bingo-hall-robbed-orange-park/21312373/

I am well aware of that fact. The difference is that the Town Center, PVB and OP are all well-established and thriving whereas Downtown is...really not. And, I have both read and been told that the perception of Downtown as dangerous is just that...a perception not based in reality. When I first moved down here in 2007, there were bicycle police all over the place at night. It was wonderful to walk out of The Carling and feel so safe and protected. I laughed at people who told me I was crazy to live down here...it felt far safer than the Beaches or the suburbs to me then. Now, when I need to go the two blocks from 11 E. to the Carling at night, I drive. I still like living down here, but I do so with the awareness that the environment has changed.

I really don't think it's a coincidence that people from other cities are all jazzed up to move down here and/or open new businesses Downtown when they visit during One Spark and then lose all interest afterwards. It's simply not the same place. One Spark and Artwalk create a false environment...a fantasy that collapses like a circus tent at the end. The real downtown Jacksonville is full of shops, restaurants and other establishments that do not dare remain open at night or on weekends because only the Monday-Friday business patrons make them feel safe.

The new Minute Clinic, for example, on Adams Street is a M-F enterprise that closes at 6 p.m. Not too helpful for the residents who are here on weekends. Same for most other businesses. Sunday, especially, is like a ghost town down here. If it were not for the panhandlers roaming about and my beloved Chamblain's Uptown being open, I would seriously wonder if the Apocalypse had hit while I was sleeping.

My point is we keep trying to convince ourselves, and others, that we are something we just are not. At least not yet. And perhaps worst of all...the others keep finding out. So, it's apparently not just my perception.

[thelakelander]

More activity/eyes on the street will have a positive impact on safety and perception. Right now, downtown is not a vibrant walkable neighborhood.  That's our reality we have to continue to work hard at to eventually overcome.

[Bill Hoff]

Perception: Downtown has ongoing safety/security issues which pose a threat to current residents and business owners and serve as a major deterrent to our revitalization.

Reality: http://www.news4jax.com/news/man-who-attempted-robbery-at-downtown-atm-wanted/35485026


This took place at 8 p.m. on a Wednesday night in an area of Downtown that is far from isolated. Luckily the victim escaped unharmed...this time. So, please do not tell me that safety issues are all in my mind, or in the mind of anyone who isn't drinking the Kool-Aid. Downtown has been dangerous for a while and is becoming more so with every passing week. I have lived down here for eight and a half years and have personally watched the problem grow in direct proportion to declining police presence. We are not helping matters, or each other, by pretending it doesn't exist.

You can plant all the flowers in the world in Hemming Park, hold 1,000,000 street festivals every year, and form an infinite amount of committees to schedule countless pointless meetings, but nothing is ever going to change until everyone admits there is a problem and makes it Priority One to fix it.

Downtown is many things, some of them not positive, but it is not unusually dangerous, at all.

Better avoid Mandarin:

"Police looking for man who robbed Mandarin business, pistol-whipped employee Saturday morning"

http://m.jacksonville.com/#article=680213BC169B29A1F1B63D4A7550BCC57072

[Lunican]

For some reason people are pretty bad at evaluating risk in their lives. The most dangerous part of town is I-95.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/dangerous-drive-18-die-on-i95-in-12-months/33127626

[UNFurbanist]

Yeah, this is kinda ridiculous. Crime happens everywhere and downtown is statistically not that bad. Also to think that businesses don't stay open past 6-7pm because of "crime" is a total misunderstanding. They don't stay open because there just isn't enough foot traffic for selling their goods and services. Economics not irrational fear.

[Adam White]

Yeah, this is kinda ridiculous. Crime happens everywhere and downtown is statistically not that bad. Also to think that businesses don't stay open past 6-7pm because of "crime" is a total misunderstanding. They don't stay open because there just isn't enough foot traffic for selling their goods and services. Economics not irrational fear.

I think another part of the issue is that downtown seems scarier because if you're walking around at night, you stand a good chance of being all alone. I used to work at the Ed Ball building and would walk home every night to Riverside (I'd get off work at 9pm). I never once had a problem - but that's not to say I didn't get a bit spooked from time to time. Sometimes I'd walk the whole way without seeing another person (on foot).

[thelakelander]

I've always said that downtown at night is like a scene out of 28 Days Later. I worry about the infected chasing me down the street moreso than crime. Other than the Greyhound bus station, it's pretty empty and quiet during my walk from my office to my garage at Forsyth & Clay. I've always wondered what someone who lived their entire life in and died in Jax prior to 1950, would think if they saw downtown today. Would it been seen as progress because a few buildings are taller?

[Adam White]

I've always said that downtown at night is like a scene out of 28 Days Later. I worry about the infected chasing me down the street moreso than crime. Other than the Greyhound bus station, it's pretty empty and quiet during my walk from my office to my garage at Forsyth & Clay. I've always wondered what someone who lived their entire life in and died in Jax prior to 1950, would think if they saw downtown today. Would it been seen as progress because a few buildings are taller?

Totally. You'd almost expect to see a tumbleweed or something. I also used to work on the Southside and would take the bus home. I'd walk from the foot of the Acosta bridge. I did that for a couple of years and never had a problem. It was actually kind of nice.

[Know Growth]

Visiting boaters are discretely encouraged to not berth at the Landing overnight during low activity events.

When that protocol subsides, I will know we have reached a certain blessedly long awaited critical mass.

Interesting- Jacksonville's "Murder Capitol" status has been lodged via episodes outside core "Down Town".

[downtownbrown]

Hard to feel completely safe in the Berkman area when the unfinished Berkman 2 is a homeless hotel.  Yes, they fixed the fence and put some razor wire down, but it's not much of a deterrent.  During the daylight the vagrants are occupying the park benches around the property, napping or just hanging out.  The city lets the weeds grow waist high, I guess to provide some privacy to the fellas who use the area as a bathroom.

[Tacachale]

By the statistics alone, Downtown isn't unusually unsafe compared to either other parts of the city, or other cities' downtowns. In fact, in terms of Jacksonville's urban areas, Downtown is quite safe.

I once choked on steak in Julington Creek and it was a 20 minute drive to the nearest hospital. THAT made me feel a lot more unsafe than having to say "no" to some panhandlers.

That's not to say that crime may not be worse now than it was a few years ago due to declining police presence, or that some characteristics of Downtown aren't obnoxious even if they're not unsafe (panhandling, uncleanliness, emptiness, etc.)

[ChriswUfGator]

Visiting boaters are discretely encouraged to not berth at the Landing overnight during low activity events.

When that protocol subsides, I will know we have reached a certain blessedly long awaited critical mass.

Interesting- Jacksonville's "Murder Capitol" status has been lodged via episodes outside core "Down Town".

Yeah those new loading zones that make it so there's nowhere to dock are a real genius move. I don't know why they did that, solving a problem nobody ever had in the first place.