Tampa takes a hit, better hope they never find Jacksonville!

[Adam W]

Yes, I'm pretty familiar with R/A, about to head over there in another hour or so, and I grew up just outside of Tampa.  We'll have to agree to disagree on this one but neighborhoods like Hyde Park offer just as much in terms of amenities for urban living in Florida.  From my view, the differences between Jacksonville and Tampa's best urban neighborhoods aren't that great (when excluding new urban infill and size of entertainment clusters) and that's not a knock on either community.  I think where urban Jax really excels is the bones of forgotten districts like the entire Northside.  There's some real gems and interesting spaces across this city that are being completely ignored.

Years ago I had a job taking photos of houses for a property magazine (like auto trader for houses or whatever). Anyway, I got to drive all over and see places in Jax (and around NE Florida) that I had never, ever seen. I remember thinking that Norwood was really cool. I think that old part of the north side is amazing. It reminded me of Avondale in some ways.

[Seraphs]

Where do you read into Jacksonville even being considered in this article?

We are not named, in fact I don't recall any other place being singled out, but using the writers criteria for Florida cities, I think we score better then most. That said, we are in real danger of losing any remaining edge we might have due to paralysis at the top. Fort Lauderdale has a streetcar project (The Waver) coming up, Sarasota and Miami both have projects on the drawing boards. Tampa's streetcar is the only one in the state that is up and running, however it suffers from Skyway Syndrome with politicians using it as an example of waste... Never mind the $1 Billion in new development attributed to the streetcar.

Perhaps we should research an economic benefit of the Skyway!

how is our airport exit ugly?  I can name about 20 "uglier" ones if you would like.  It's a fecking Interstate exit to begin with, what the feck are you looking for?

Going north out of the city to the airport on I-95, the wizards of JTA created a double exit for Airport Road, confusing for our visitors. If you find the right exit it leaves the interstate on a hairpin 25 mile per hour curve that immediately plunges one into the middle of a pine forest. Nothing to look at and if you are unfortunate enough not to know this really IS a 25 mph curve, you and your car can actually take flight... it's the landing that will screw things up. Much of the time this old exit is lined with JTA/FDOT's Jacksonville trademark weeds, litter and scrub.

Westbound under the FREEway interchange, one is awed by a forest of 1970's something C-Stores/Service Stations. I'm fine with the service stations, hotels and restaurants being there, but not if they are going to resemble a greasy truck stop in Albuquerque.

Eastbound out of the airport, the on ramps look better but again, the dated nature of the road, lack of maintenance, and those glorious 1970 something, dirty C-Store's, all combine to set the stage for 'The Jacksonville experience.'

Unless Disney, Sea World and Universal Studios fall into a massive sinkhole, we'll never have the traffic at our airport that Orlando has, but we could take lessons from 'The City Beautiful' in 'Airport Exit 101.' Likewise several out of state places come to mind with similar size airports and airport traffic. Oklahoma City for example has an airport with just a fraction less flights then we have, but the airport exit and entrance are bold if not stunningly impressive. Perhaps somewhere along the way we lost the 'Bold' in our 'New City Of The South.'

It maybe ugly, but fort sure it's a confusing mess.  This past weekend I had relatives staying at one of the lodges on Airport Rd.  The information sign showed the lodge, but didn't indicate which exit would take me there.  No indication rather the lodge was left or right of the interstate.

[Ocklawaha]

ANOTHER ARTICLE JUST IN: CAN YOU IMAGINE A JACKSONVILLE POLITICO SPEAKING UP FOR TRANSIT LIKE THIS?

http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/article/269481/8/Buckhorn-Convention-could-expose-Tampas-transit-troubles

TAMPA, Florida - Mayor Bob Buckhorn admits Tampa has a transportation problem. While he told 10 News he hopes the city is prepared for next week's Republican National Convention, he said the event could showcase the city's weaknesses.

"Anytime you host an event like this, you see your strengths and you see your weaknesses," Buckhorn said Tuesday. "Obviously, not having mass transit is a big weakness that the Bay area's had for a long time."

Buckhorn's comments come after a flurry of columns and headlines critical of Tampa's transportation and transit options.  They include a Tampa Bay Times editorial and Salon.com feature that called Tampa "America's Hottest Mess."

Salon.com criticized Florida's rejection of high-speed rail, Hillsborough County's rejection of local light rail, and a number of studies that have ranked the region among the least-friendly toward pedestrians and traffic in the country.


"We've got to think beyond just expanding highways," Buckhorn, a Democrat, said. "We are the only region in the country without some type of mobility options. So, in spite of the referendum of a year ago and in spite of Gov. Scott's decision, the reality is we're going to need light rail at some point and we need to continue to work toward that point."

A downed sign on the Davis Islands bridge -- and the ensuing traffic problems on Tuesday -- showed how vulnerable Tampa was to transportation disruptions.

The RNC, with its 400-plus buses and highway shutdowns, could pose bigger problems.

The city was dealt a blow several months ago as well, when TBARTA and Buckhorn's administration discussed dedicated bus lanes on I-275 during convention week. However, FDOT told 10 News the issue was never studied, or seriously considered by the agency, because of infrastructure limitations.

"We think we can handle this convention's (transportation) without any real accommodations," Buckhorn said. "But I think, long-term, we need to plan for more people being here, more development occurring, more mobility options."

[I-10east]

Of course, every story got to be phrased in a way to be negative towards Jax. It couldn't have simply been "Tampa takes a hit hosting the GOP convention". No, that's too nice, you gotta drag Jax into this story even though it doesn't have a damn thing to do with Jacksonville. That's the typical mindset of most MJers for ya. 

[JFman00]

Of course, every story got to be phrased in a way to be negative towards Jax. It couldn't have simply been "Tampa takes a hit hosting the GOP convention". No, that's too nice, you gotta drag Jax into this story even though it doesn't have a damn thing to do with Jacksonville. That's the typical mindset of most MJers for ya.

I guess it could've been: "Tampa, a city worth complaining about"

Or: "Tampa, a place where people somewhat give a damn"

And another just because this is fun: "A Florida city Americans actually notice: Tampa"

[I-10east]

^^^Keep on indulging in the negativity. A thread title like this is no different from the national media sports a-holes that says the Jags are gonna move to LA, London, etc every 5 seconds. There's no correlation with bashing your city, and being progressive, contrary to popular belief. Hell, I'm used to MJ bashing Jax whenever we tear down any utility shack that's located downtown,  but a story that's not even related to Jacksonville? I guess that it's too much to ask to diss the city when the story is actually related to the city.     

[JaxJag]

I-10east + 1875.3694 You deserve a golden star!

[JFman00]

^^^Keep on indulging in the negativity. A thread title like this is no different from the national media sports a-holes that says the Jags are gonna move to LA, London, etc every 5 seconds. There's no correlation with bashing your city, and being progressive, contrary to popular belief. Hell, I'm used to MJ bashing Jax when we tear down any utility shack located downtown,  but a story that's not even related to Jacksonville? I guess that it's too much to ask to bash to city when the story is actually related to the city. 

There's also no benefit to pretending that there are no lessons to be learned from other cities. Replace Tampa with Jacksonville in this article and it would read nearly the same. I'd say that makes the story pretty closely related.

This left little of the quality urbanism people now pay a premium for. And while other cities made similar mistakes, _____ has been slow to correct theirs, stymied by tight-fisted Tea Party politics. “We look at Dallas or Houston, with all the same challenges we have; they’ve managed to start changing their patterns of development and attract the creative-class younger folks who are looking for alternatives to the suburban lifestyle,” says Steve Schukraft, the _____ area’s representative to the Congress for the New Urbanism. When you’re wistfully pining for Houston’s urban virtues, things are not going well.

The blanks there are obviously Tampa, but could certainly apply to Jacksonville verbatim.

“How do you address the lack of pedestrianism, the lack of civic space, the lack of shade, which is crucial for Florida urbanism?” she asks. “There’s some bike paths now, and landscaping, but to me it’s not integrative. I think it needs a larger rethinking of its infrastructure. It’s operating in more of an ’80s mentality.”

That's not bashing, that's framing a problem.

On that front, the city has been talking up two marquee efforts. The first is the University of South Florida’s new Center for Advanced Medical Learning and Simulation. Billed as the largest facility in the world that allows med students to practice surgery without a patient, the $38 million facility, right downtown, hopes to draw 60,000 people to the city each year. The other is the Riverwalk, which will open up the Hillsborough River with 2.6 miles of green space. In June, the city received $11 million from the Obama administration to finish the project. Already, the Tampa Museum of Art has relocated there, alongside a new eight-acre park that stages live performances and events. Yelp reviewers have been gushing with gratitude for the desperately needed public space.

A debate could certainly be had on whether those developments are cost-effective or even work at all. But to dismiss these attempts out of hand because they're happening somewhere other than Jacksonville is being either short-sighted or willfully ignorant.

If you're content with the way things are in this city, why even bother with most of the threads?

[I-10east]

^^^So a scathing thread title makes you feel more progressive? The story wasn't related to Jax, but you wanted it to be because of the negative factor.

So if I would've made this thread and said on the title "Tampa takes a hit with the GOP convention". Then you or one of your 22 other clones on the first post would've said the obligatory and very creative "Can you imagine if Jax had this convention, aw man they really would've regretted it; They will think that Tampa is a top flight city compared to Jax".

Make a damn post about the glacial melt in the Northern icecap, and blame that on Jax too.

[tufsu1]

ANOTHER ARTICLE JUST IN: CAN YOU IMAGINE A JACKSONVILLE POLITICO SPEAKING UP FOR TRANSIT LIKE THIS?

well Alvin Brown did...when running for Mayor!

[Garden guy]

 I've been hoping my entire life that jax would develope into a modern
Forward thinking city it claimed to be when I was a kid...I've come to the
Conclusion that will probably not happen in my liftime..it seems we have held
true to its conservative religious biggot self....our councils still only represent a conservative
view on everything for fear of attck and loss of support or attack. Jacksonville is years behind
Tampa. Florida is conservative because its still full of rednecks who vote against their own interest.
So I'm stuck in a city stuck in time...welcome...its beautiful but its people can
be lost in time..

[Ocklawaha]

^^^So a scathing thread title makes you feel more progressive? The story wasn't related to Jax, but you wanted it to be because of the negative factor.

So if I would've made this thread and said on the title "Tampa takes a hit with the GOP convention". Then you or one of your 22 other clones on the first post would've said the obligatory and very creative "Can you imagine if Jax had this convention, aw man they really would've regretted it; They will think that Tampa is a top flight city compared to Jax".

Make a damn post about the glacial melt in the Northern icecap, and blame that on Jax too.

Wake up and smell the (Maxwell House) coffee I-10 East. A story or thread title is created simply to get as many eye's on it as possible. A title like 'Tampa sucks, but Jacksonville is sublime' would go nowhere.

Your refusal to comprehend that Jacksonville does indeed have many of these same problems is the same head in the sand attitude to prevents us from moving forward.

Having just returned home from OKC and Denver, I can tell you we are falling farther behind. Downtown OKC, is one vast construction site. The newly opened Devon tower dwarf's anything in our skyline. Green space, trails, transit, interactive fountains, playgrounds, tourist attractions, as well as attractions for locals are too numerous to count. The 'Deep Deuce' neighborhood, a horrid ghetto just 15 years ago, is now a sea of new buildings. And the MSA for OKC is right behind Jacksonville in numbers. I expect we'll be trading places with them in the next census if we don't start investing in our city.

We are not complaining because of some hatred for Jacksonville, we are trying to wave examples both good and bad in front of our officials and our citizens in the hope that, "they don't see things as they are and ask why, rather they see things that aren't and ask why not?' (JFK) Jacksonville has better 'bones' then Atlanta, New Orleans, Charlotte, or any other Florida City and there is simply no reason why we can't seize this moment in history to move to the next tier.

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana) 

OCKLAWAHA

[BackinJax05]

Having lived in both areas, Jacksonville is quickly becoming another Tampa - trafficwise. Blanding Blvd. in Clay county is a preview of things to come.

Rather than investing in mass transit, Tampa invested a bazillion dollars rebuilding I-275, the Veterans Expressway (more like parking lot), and the spaghetti of roads near the airport. Its not all Bob Buckhorn's fault. This mess was started under the Dick Grecko administration. Tampa's darling DICK.